[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[G2013]

How do would you do EO in this case?


Setup: R' D2 L F' L' D2 R' B R' B2 R B R2 U'

 

[tseitsei]

How do would you do EO in this case?


Setup: R' D2 L F' L' D2 R' B R' B2 R B R2 U'

I wouldn't. I would find another F2L-1 to avoid such a horrible case...

 

[Sebastien]

How do would you do EO in this case?


Setup: R' D2 L F' L' D2 R' B R' B2 R B R2 U'

Unless THIS is the scramble, you will have a certain way to that point and hence certain possibilities to end up with a ways better result, maybe even without additional moves.

 

[AvGalen]

Unless THIS is the scramble, you will have a certain way to that point and hence certain possibilities to end up with a ways better result, maybe even without additional moves.

If you cannot avoid such a case you can play around with premoves (F or R' or a combination of the two) or you can "hope for some luck by playing around with the pair"
U F' (line up)
L' (orient)
U' B' (orient and attach)
U B (U') L (U) F (without the U'U it gives a nice OLL but with orients everything)

R B U2 B' R' U2 R' F R F' is another easy pair + orient

But if you want to have some fun you could do F' L2 U2 F' L' F U2 L2 F U' to make a different F2L and only leave 3 corners (this one looks hard to find, but if you do F' L' your cube is full of blocks

 

[obelisk477]

But if you want to have some fun you could do F' L2 U2 F' L' F U2 L2 F U' to make a different F2L and only leave 3 corners (this one looks hard to find, but if you do F' L' your cube is full of blocks

If we're playing with this, using your F' L' idea...

F' L' U2 L F // pairs
U' R U' R' // 3 remaining pairs
F R Bw' R' F' R Bw R' // block commutator

 

[AvGalen]

If we're playing with this, using your F' L' idea...

F' L' U2 L F // pairs
U' R U' R' // 3 remaining pairs
F R Bw' R' F' R Bw R' // block commutator

Much better. My FMC is rusty, especially sat 3 at night

 

[G2013]

Scramble: R2 F U2 L2 F L2 U2 R2 D2 R2 B' D B' L2 D L' B F D F

Any tips? I know there are a lot of things to improve. I don't think blockbuilding is THAT important to improve now. Instead, I think that the moves from F2L-1 to skeleton need to be improved.

Solve:
Premove: F
D' B' //Obvious 2x2
L F U F U2 //2x2x3
F D F' D' //F2L-1, and I don't like that corner there, so I transformed it into pseudo F2L-1, so that's premove F
D' L D L' F L F' //EO
D' L2 D L //Last pair+L4C

Skeleton: D' B' L F U F U2 F D F' D L D L' F L F' D' L2 D L F
Final solve:
D' B' L F U F U2 F D F' D2 L D L' F (B D' B' U2 B D B' U2) L F' D' L2 D L F
D' B' L F U F U2 F D F' D2 L D L' F B D' B' U2 (R' F' R B2 R' F R B2) B D B' U2 L F' D' L2 D L F
D' B' L F U F U2 F D F' D2 L D L' F B D' B' U2 R' F' R B2 R' F R B' D B' U2 L F' D' L2 D L F (37 HTM, 1 cancellation)

 

[irontwig]

Scramble: R2 F U2 L2 F L2 U2 R2 D2 R2 B' D B' L2 D L' B F D F

Any tips? I know there are a lot of things to improve. I don't think blockbuilding is THAT important to improve now. Instead, I think that the moves from F2L-1 to skeleton need to be improved.

Solve:
Premove: F
D' B' //Obvious 2x2
L F U F U2 //2x2x3
F D F' D' //F2L-1, and I don't like that corner there, so I transformed it into pseudo F2L-1, so that's premove F
D' L D L' F L F' //EO
D' L2 D L //Last pair+L4C

Skeleton: D' B' L F U F U2 F D F' D L D L' F L F' D' L2 D L F
Final solve:
D' B' L F U F U2 F D F' D2 L D L' F (B D' B' U2 B D B' U2) L F' D' L2 D L F
D' B' L F U F U2 F D F' D2 L D L' F B D' B' U2 (R' F' R B2 R' F R B2) B D B' U2 L F' D' L2 D L F
D' B' L F U F U2 F D F' D2 L D L' F B D' B' U2 R' F' R B2 R' F R B' D B' U2 L F' D' L2 D L F (37 HTM, 1 cancellation)

After F2l-1 you can do D' L' D L U L U' L' U' F U to leave three edges, IF gives 27 moves with optimal insertions.

 

[G2013]

Can't I do
D' L' D B L B' L' B' U B?

IF gives (skeleton: D' B' L F U F U2 F D F' D2 L' D B L B' L' B' U B U' L F)

D' B' L [@1] F U F U2 F D F' D2 L' D B L B' L' B' U B U' L F
Insert at @1: L2 D2 R2 B R2 D2 L2 F
Fewest moves: 29. 2 moves cancelled
The final solution: D' B' L' D2 R2 B R2 D2 L2 F2 U F U2 F D F' D2 L' D B L B' L' B' U B U' L F

Anyway, your option is better.

I never would have tried for a skeleton that leaves edges, but that's a good option.

 

[Cale S]

My solution for the weekly FMC:

Spoiler

scramble: D B2 R D F B2 D U2 L U F2 D U2 B2 R B U' R L' D

premoves: B' R2
D L F' R' D * R D' // 2x2x2 (7/7)
B' L U L' B R // 2x2x3 (6/13)
R' U R // EO (3-2/14)
U' B U' B' U2 B2 // add square (6/20)
R' U' R U' R' U' R U2 R' U R U' // to L3C (12/32)
B' R2 // undo premoves (2/34)
Insert at *: [D2, R U' R']

Final solution: D L F' R' D' R U' R' D2 R U D' B' L U L' B U R U' B U' B' U2 B2 R' U' R U' R' U' R U2 R' U R U' B' R2 (39)
alg.cubing.net
IF says insertion was optimal

What are some things I could improve on?

 

[Prakhar]

Scramble: R2 F U2 L2 F L2 U2 R2 D2 R2 B' D B' L2 D L' B F D F

Any tips? I know there are a lot of things to improve. I don't think blockbuilding is THAT important to improve now. Instead, I think that the moves from F2L-1 to skeleton need to be improved.

Solve:
Premove: F
D' B' //Obvious 2x2
L F U F U2 //2x2x3
F D F' D' //F2L-1, and I don't like that corner there, so I transformed it into pseudo F2L-1, so that's premove F
D' L D L' F L F' //EO
D' L2 D L //Last pair+L4C

Skeleton: D' B' L F U F U2 F D F' D L D L' F L F' D' L2 D L F
Final solve:
D' B' L F U F U2 F D F' D2 L D L' F (B D' B' U2 B D B' U2) L F' D' L2 D L F
D' B' L F U F U2 F D F' D2 L D L' F B D' B' U2 (R' F' R B2 R' F R B2) B D B' U2 L F' D' L2 D L F
D' B' L F U F U2 F D F' D2 L D L' F B D' B' U2 R' F' R B2 R' F R B' D B' U2 L F' D' L2 D L F (37 HTM, 1 cancellation)

Using the scramble, I found this.
Premove F2
D L2 D' //2x2x1
F2 L2 D2 F B' //Psuedo 2x2x3(F2 to fix}
B' U2 B L' U' L' //F2l-1
L' U L //Another 2x2x1
U' L' U' L U' //L3C

Skeleton- D L2 D' F2 L2 D2 F B2 U2 B L' U' L2 U + L U' L' U' L U'
Insert at +: U' F D2 F' U F D2 F'

2 moves cancel.
IF says insertion optimal.

Tips for me too.

 

[Benyó]

my 30 move solution at Slovakian Open

scramble: U2 L2 F2 D2 F2 U B2 U' R' F D' B L' R' F2 U' L2 R2 B2
solution: D' U2 R U2 L' U' R' U L U D B U2 B2 U2 B2 U2 B F' U F R F' L2 F D2 L' B' U D'

on inverse:
D U' B L D2 F' L2 F // 8 - some blocks, but couldn't insert the last edge into the 2x2x3
R' F' U' F // 4/12 - EO + blocks
B' U2 B2 U2 B2 U2 B' // 7/19 - 2x2x3 + a lot more blocks + place DR and BR edges
U2 . R U' R' U2 // 5/24 - all but 4 corners

this isn't very promising at all but i wanted a not too bad backup solution so i searched for insertions

. D' R U' R' D R U R' // 8-6/26 - if you look at carefully, it could be an f2l executed like a non-matching pair

skelekton on the normal scramble:
D' U2 R U : R' U2 D
B U2 B2 U2 B2 U2 B
F' U F R F' L2
F D2 L' B' U D'

: U L' U' R' U L U' R // 8-4/30

10 moves cancelled out of 16. it seemed like an extremely hard scramble but the ridiculously lucky insertions saved me

 

[irontwig]

it seemed like an extremely hard scramble but the ridiculously lucky insertions saved me

Wasn't that bad:

L2 D2 L' F D2 F D F' D2 F' D' F2 L' F' L2 D' R D2 F L' B' U (22)

Premoves: R L D2 F L' B' U (2x2x3 on the inv)

L2 D2 L' F
D2 F D F'
D2 F' D' F2 L' F' L2 D' L'

 

[bubbagrub]

I just got my PB FMC result (33) for the reddit competition, so I thought I'd post it here.

Scramble: B2 D B2 U' R2 D' F2 D L2 U R2 B F' R' U R2 B' L F' U2 F
I found nothing on that scramble, so I tried the reverse scramble and immediately found a way to get to F2L - 1 in 14 moves:

U F' D' * B (4/4)
U F D2 (7/7)
L B ** U B2 (4/11)
F' L' F (3/14)

Then I didn't really know what to do, but eventually found a way to get to L5C fairly simply:

L U L' F R U R' U' F' U2 (10/24)

Then I found two insertions that cancelled a total of 7 moves (and later, checked on insertion finder, and it said these were optimal):

** (B') D B U B' D (B) (U') (3/27)
* R' F' R B R' F R (B') (6/33)

So I'm guessing better FMCers than me will find a better way to continue after that 14th move...?

 

[Benyó]

Wasn't that bad:

L2 D2 L' F D2 F D F' D2 F' D' F2 L' F' L2 D' R D2 F L' B' U (22)

Premoves: R L D2 F L' B' U (2x2x3 on the inv)

L2 D2 L' F
D2 F D F'
D2 F' D' F2 L' F' L2 D' L'

as i said it seemed like a hard one, but i was wrong

 

[G2013]

Weekly challenge solve:

Spoiler: Nobody will copy my solve because: who wants to copy a 37 moves solve?

D2 F2 U' R' D2 L' B' U' L2 F R B R' U' B' D2 U' L' U L'

Premove: R' U'

R2 B' L' F R D L B' U' B D2 //2x2x3
U' B' R B R2 B' R2 B2 U2 B' //Blocks everywhere, premove R' U' found
R' U R U' //4 corners left

Skeleton: R2 B' L' F R D L B' U' B D2 U' B' R B R2 B' R2 B2 U2 B' R' U R U' R' U' (27)
Final solve: R2 B' L' F R D L B' U' B D2 U' B' R2 F2 R' B R F2 R B' R2 B2 U2 B' R' U R U' R' L' D2 L U' L' D2 L (37, with 2 insertons and 6 cancellations, but somehow they reduce 8 moves instead of 6...)

Those are the insertions I've found:
First:
R2 B' L' F R D L B' U' B D2 U' B' R (R F2 R' B R F2 R' B') B R2 B' R2 B2 U2 B' R' U R U' R' U'
R2 B' L' F R D L B' U' B D2 U' B' R2 F2 R' B R F2 R B' R2 B2 U2 B' R' U R U' R' U' (31, 4 cancellations)

Second(s):

R2 B' L' F R D L B' U' (U' B' U F2 U' B U F2) B D2 U' B' R2 F2 R' B R F2 R B' R2 B2 U2 B' R' U R U' R' U'
R2 B' L' F R D L B' U' B D2 U' B' R2 F2 R' B R F2 R B' (D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R) R2 B2 U2 B' R' U R U' R' U'
R2 B' L' F R D L B' U' B D2 U' B' R2 F2 R' B R F2 R B' R2 B2 U2 B' R' U R (L D2 L' U2 L D2 L' U2) U' R' U'
R2 B' L' F R D L B' U' B D2 U' B' R2 F2 R' B R F2 R B' R2 B2 U2 B' R' U R U' R' U' (U L' D2 L U' L' D2 L )

R2 B' L' F R D L B' U2 B' U F2 U' B U F2 B D2 U' B' R2 F2 R' B R F2 R B' R2 B2 U2 B' R' U R U' R' U' (38, 1 cancellation.)
R2 B' L' F R D L B' U' B D2 U' B' R2 F2 R' B R F2 R B' D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R' B2 U2 B' R' U R U' R' U' (38, 1 cancellation.)
R2 B' L' F R D L B' U' B D2 U' B' R2 F2 R' B R F2 R B' R2 B2 U2 B' R' U R L D2 L' U2 L D2 L' U R' U' (38, 1 cancellation.)
R2 B' L' F R D L B' U' B D2 U' B' R2 F2 R' B R F2 R B' R2 B2 U2 B' R' U R U' R' L' D2 L U' L' D2 L (37, 2 cancellations.)

I used the last one, IF says 35 is optimal for this skeleton.

 

[Mike Hughey]

Okay, this is just too weird. My solve last week for the Weekly FMC was exactly identical to Porkynator's. Including sub-optimal insertions. What are the odds??? I feel like it was my best solve ever (24 moves!), though, so I'm still proud of it even if it was obvious enough for someone else to find exactly the same solution.

Spoiler

Scramble: D B2 R D F B2 D U2 L U F2 D U2 B2 R B U' R L' D
Solution: U B U B2 U2 L2 U L' U' R' U L2 U' R U2 L2 U' R' U L2 U' B' L2 U

2x2x2: premoves R' + B' L2 U (found with inverse scramble)
2x2x3 and lots of pairs: U B U B2
all but 4 corners!: U2 L2 U L .
insert at .: L2 U' R' U L2 U' R U
insert at +: R U L2 U' R' U L2 U'

Wow - 12 move skeleton with all but 4 corners! At first I was disappointed with the insertions, but after I was done, I tried running it in insertion finder and the best it found was 23 moves - only one better than mine. I'm thrilled with this solve!

 

[G2013]

Unveliebable!! I've never heard or seen something like that! By the way, congratulations. I don't know how to calculate the probabilities for that.

 

[Mike Hughey]

Unveliebable!! I've never heard or seen something like that! By the way, congratulations. I don't know how to calculate the probabilities for that.

I admit I was being facetious asking about the odds. And thank you.

 

[G2013]

I'm getting a lot better at FMC; shall I open a new account at the Dadams' Weekly Challenge site, so my statistics improve? Because on my current profile my worst solves are 54, 48, 48, 47, 47... and they don't help. But I don't want to lose my 30 moves solve... What shall I do?