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[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

the ”lie” is a lot more simple than you think. i just switched my steps in order to look like i'm not a lucky bastard but a genius in fewest moves. :D

here is a different explanation
scramble:
B2 D2 B2 D' U2 F2 D F2 L2 U F L2 B2 U' L' U B' L D2 R2

B F' L U2 R2 U' L // 7 a quite nice 2x2x2 block but no good continuation. but the green-red f2l is in it's slot... i should insert the last cross piece into the cross an i'll have a nice f2l-1. there are two choices: before the upcoming U2 which adjusts the blocks or after that.
B' F L' F' B // 5/12 just did it before the U2 because otherwise i would get a lot of bad edges.
U2 B2 L B L' B D // 7/19 i did the U2 and almost fell of the chair. i got an LL skip and it is sub20!

but then i noticed that the cross piece insertion was a 6move 5cycle with a canceled move, so i made it look like an insertion.
B F' L U2 R2 U' L . U2 D' B2 L B L' B D // 15 skelekton
. B' F L' F' B D // 6-2 insertion

solution: B F' L U2 R2 U' L B' F L' F' B U2 B2 L B L' B D

i'm disappointed, i was pretty sure someone (or most of the good fmc-ers) will find the trick.
don't always believe explanations, try to understand the solves instead!
 
Benyó said:
the ”lie” is a lot more simple than you think. i just switched my steps in order to look like i'm not a lucky bastard but a genius in fewest moves. :D

here is a different explanation
scramble:
B2 D2 B2 D' U2 F2 D F2 L2 U F L2 B2 U' L' U B' L D2 R2

B F' L U2 R2 U' L // 7 a quite nice 2x2x2 block but no good continuation. but the green-red f2l is in it's slot... i should insert the last cross piece into the cross an i'll have a nice f2l-1. there are two choices: before the upcoming U2 which adjusts the blocks or after that.
B' F L' F' B // 5/12 just did it before the U2 because otherwise i would get a lot of bad edges.
U2 B2 L B L' B D // 7/19 i did the U2 and almost fell of the chair. i got an LL skip and it is sub20!

but then i noticed that the cross piece insertion was a 6move 5cycle with a canceled move, so i made it look like an insertion.
B F' L U2 R2 U' L . U2 D' B2 L B L' B D // 15 skelekton
. B' F L' F' B D // 6-2 insertion

solution: B F' L U2 R2 U' L B' F L' F' B U2 B2 L B L' B D

i'm disappointed, i was pretty sure someone (or most of the good fmc-ers) will find the trick.
don't always believe explanations, try to understand the solves instead!
Click to expand...

Wow, that's so awesomely hilarious. I must admit - I just assume that since I'm terrible at FMC and you guys are so awesome at it, you probably just know lots of things like 5-edge-cycles that you can actually find. I still suspect you often can, but at least it's comforting to know this particular solve was basically just you getting lucky. A lucky full LL skip - just ridiculous.
 
Last edited:
Weekly FMC Result:

Scramble: D2 F2 R' U2 F L' R' F B2 D2 L F R2 B L2 U' B' R2 B' L'

U' B //1x2x2 (2/2)
F L2 F' //Another 1x2x2 (3/5)
D' R'* B2 //Another 1x2x2 (3/8)
D2 B D' //ANOTHER 1x2x2 (3/11)
B' R D'//F2L-1 or F2L minus two edges on UF and DF (3/14)
F' D' F D F//Another F2L-1 (5/19)
R D R2 D' R' //L3E (5/24)

Insert at *: U D' R2 U' D' B2

Cancels 3 moves

Full solution: U' B F L2 F' D' R' U D' R2 U' D' B D' B' R D' F' D' F D F R D R2 D' R'

27 Moves

So many blocks...:)
 
Is there a way to use IF so that it only searches using 8-move commutators and not longer ones? I would like to know if I have found optimal 8-move insertions, but IF keeps using longer insertions that give better cancellations.
 
AJ Blair said:
Weekly FMC Result:

Scramble: D2 F2 R' U2 F L' R' F B2 D2 L F R2 B L2 U' B' R2 B' L'

U' B //1x2x2 (2/2)
F L2 F' //Another 1x2x2 (3/5)
D' R'* B2 //Another 1x2x2 (3/8)
D2 B D' //ANOTHER 1x2x2 (3/11)
B' R D'//F2L-1 or F2L minus two edges on UF and DF (3/14)
F' D' F D F//Another F2L-1 (5/19)
R D R2 D' R' //L3E (5/24)

Insert at *: U D' R2 U' D' B2

Cancels 3 moves

Full solution: U' B F L2 F' D' R' U D' R2 U' D' B D' B' R D' F' D' F D F R D R2 D' R'

27 Moves

So many blocks...:)
Click to expand...

Got the same solution but with different insertion. First time tried edge insertions. And its PB
 
My winning solutions from Prague Open 2014.

1st scramble: U2 L' D2 L D2 R2 F2 L U L R' D' F R' D L' F R' B'
1st solution: R' F' U L' B2 F L D' L' U2 L D L' F' U F U F' B2 D' B U' B' D B2 L' B L' D2 B2 L2 (31 moves)
(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: B2 L U' F R

2x2x3 block: L2 B2 D2 L B'
F2L minus 1 slot: L B' U * B
All but 4 corners: F U' F' U' F U2 + F'
Correction: B2 L U' F R

Insert at *: U' B' D' B U B' D B
Insert at +: U2 L D' L' U2 L D L'

Optimal insertions according to IF.

2nd scramble: R D F' L2 B R F2 L' B R2 B U2 B' U2 D2 B' U2 D2 L2
2nd solution: L' R2 B' R F R2 L' F L F2 L2 F L F' L2 F2 L' F' L F' L' D F D' F D F2 D L F2 D R' (32 moves)
20 min backup solution.

Pre-scramble: D R' (EO)

2x2x2 block: L' R2 B' R F R2

On inverse, F2 L' D2 builds 2x2x3 block, so:

Pre-scramble: D2 L F2 D R'

2x2x3 block: L' R2 B' R F R2
Finish F2L: L' F L F2 L2 F L F' L
LL: L F2 L' F' L F' L', D F D' F D F2 D'
Correction: D2 L F2 D R'


By switcing to inverse with premoves R2 F' R' B R2 L,

2x2x3 block: R D' F2 L' D2
Finish F2L: L2 F L' F L F' L2 F' L

leaves 4 corners, but twisted in place. :(

Another interesting start was:

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: R

2x2x2 block: D L R B U2
2x2x3 block: L B2 L2 B2 D2 B

but I couldn't find any good continuation. :(

3rd scramble: B' U2 F D2 F U2 B' F2 D U2 F2 L' U' F' U2 L2 R' U B2
3rd solution: D U' R D L U' B2 F2 U' F' U F2 U' F2 U F2 L2 B L' F' L B2 F' U2 (24 moves)
25 min solution.

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: B' U2

2x2x3 block: D U' R D L U' B2

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: B2 U L' D' R' U D'

2x2x3 block: U2 B
F2L minus 1 slot: F * L' F L'
More square: F2 U' F2 U
All but 3 corners: F2 U' F U F2
Correction: B2 U L' D' R' U D'

Insert at *: B L' F L B' L' F' L

Another skeletons I found gave 28 moves.

[1]
(Normal)
Pre-scramble: F2 B' U2

2x2x3 block: D U' R D L U' B2
F2L minus 1 slot: F' U' F' U F2

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: F2 U' F U F B2 U L' D' R' U D'

F2L minus 1 slot: U2 B F2
All but 3 corners: L' U2 B L B' L' U2
Correction: F2 U' F U F B2 U L' D' R' U D'

[2]
(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: B2 U L' D' R' U D'

2x2x3 block: U2 B
Orient edges: F2 L' U' F' U
All but 3 edges: F' L' F' L' F' L F2 L'
Correction: B2 U L' D' R' U D'

31, 32, 24 = 29, tied AsR, but it's a pity that I couldn't break AsR again although I got 24-move two times this year.
 
Last edited:
Congratz on that tied AsR, which was counting 31 and 32:p
There will be a 3 attempts FMC competition in Taiwan at the end of September, and I hope I can break the AsR by luck:cool:
 
So this scramble I tried was super easy:
U2 B2 R' D2 R2 B2 R D2 R2 U2 B2 U B2 D F U' L' B F2 L2 D'

R' U F2 U' B D' B R2 B'//2x2x3 (9)
F R' D R F' D R F2 R2 D R D'//F2L (12)
U' F2 U F U' F U//OLL (7)
U2 L2 U R U' L2 U R' U F2//PLL (10)

Total: 38 moves. IF says that 35 is optimal if I bothered to find insertions.

EDIT: I found this

R2 B F D//EOline (4)
B' L' R2 B2 L'//2x2x1 (5)
R B R' B R' B2 R//2x2x1(7)
B' L' B L B2 R B' R' B' L' B' L//F2L (all but 3 corners) (12)
That makes 28 moves.

And IF:
R2 B F D [@1] B' L' R2 B2 L' R B R' B R' B2 R B' L' B L B2 R B' R' B' L' B' L
Insert at @1: D' B U2 B' D B U2 B'
Fewest moves: 32. 4 moves cancelled
The final solution: R2 B2 F U2 B' D B U2 B2 L' R2 B2 L' R B R' B R' B2 R B' L' B L B2 R B' R' B' L' B' L
 
Last edited:
okayama said:
My winning solutions from Prague Open 2014.

1st scramble: U2 L' D2 L D2 R2 F2 L U L R' D' F R' D L' F R' B'
1st solution: R' F' U L' B2 F L D' L' U2 L D L' F' U F U F' B2 D' B U' B' D B2 L' B L' D2 B2 L2 (31 moves)
2nd scramble: R D F' L2 B R F2 L' B R2 B U2 B' U2 D2 B' U2 D2 L2
2nd solution: L' R2 B' R F R2 L' F L F2 L2 F L F' L2 F2 L' F' L F' L' D F D' F D F2 D L F2 D R' (32 moves)
3rd scramble: B' U2 F D2 F U2 B' F2 D U2 F2 L' U' F' U2 L2 R' U B2
3rd solution: D U' R D L U' B2 F2 U' F' U F2 U' F2 U F2 L2 B L' F' L B2 F' U2 (24 moves)

31, 32, 24 = 29, tied AsR, but it's a pity that I couldn't break AsR again although I got 24-move two times this year.
Click to expand...

Well done Tomoaki!
 
Ok I just had a solution that is quite funny and random, so I decided to post it. I found it playing around after the 1-hour-limit.
Scramble (from here: http://speedcube.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=3912&pid=83798#pid83798):
B' U R' L2 F2 L D B' U B2 R2 U2 R U2 L D2 R' U2 D2 R

Now, at the beginning I found this nice start:
D' R2 D' B' F U' R2
Seven moves for a pseudo-2x2x3.
Here I switched, and to orient two edges I did U' R' (instead of just R' to solve the pseudoness). This creates two pairs.
No I continued on the normal scramble with premoves R U. But I modified the last two moves of my 2x2x3 block:
D' R2 D' B' F D' U F D
Many blocks :D If you are following, please try to solve from here. Maybe add another F2 as premove?
I tried a bit around and found the following continuation: (I noticed that it is easier to find when you add F2 as a premove, btw)
U2 R' F' B U2 B' F'
which results in three unsolved pairs. A commutator can be inserted between the last two moves: B R' U' R' U R B' R
So the final solution is: D' R2 D' B' F D' U F D U2 R' F' B U2 R' U' R' U R B' R F' R U
 
okayama said:
2nd scramble: R D F' L2 B R F2 L' B R2 B U2 B' U2 D2 B' U2 D2 L2

By switcing to inverse with premoves R2 F' R' B R2 L,

2x2x3 block: R D' F2 L' D2
Finish F2L: L2 F L' F L F' L2 F' L

leaves 4 corners, but twisted in place. :(
Click to expand...

are you sure it wouldn't worth a try to find some insertions? the first two commutators might have been done in like 3-4 moves since you are basically free to do any of the soooooooo many possibilities
 
Benyó said:
are you sure it wouldn't worth a try to find some insertions? the first two commutators might have been done in like 3-4 moves since you are basically free to do any of the soooooooo many possibilities
Click to expand...

Well 20 moves isn't too good for two insertions already, I personally wouldn't do three insertions here...
 
EMI said:
Well 20 moves isn't too good for two insertions already, I personally wouldn't do three insertions here...
Click to expand...

yes, usually me neither, but that scramble was just terrible. for example i've tried everything i could and could only find a 38 moves sune pllsikp. a 20 move skelekton with 4 twisted corners would be awsome. and i think Tomoaki was able to do a sub12 move insertion if it was possible. i don't know how many time did he have left but if it was around 15-20 minutes i would have definitely tried it. and there is a difference between insertion and insertion
 
Benyó said:
yes, usually me neither, but that scramble was just terrible. for example i've tried everything i could and could only find a 38 moves sune pllsikp. a 20 move skelekton with 4 twisted corners would be awsome. and i think Tomoaki was able to do a sub12 move insertion if it was possible. i don't know how many time did he have left but if it was around 15-20 minutes i would have definitely tried it. and there is a difference between insertion and insertion
Click to expand...
IF gives 32 for optimal insertions to solve the 4 corners
L' R2 [@1] B' R F R2 L' F L2 F L' F' L F' L2 D2 L F2 D R'
Insert at @1: R' F2 R B' R' F2 R B
After the 1st insertion: L' R F2 R B' R' F2 R2 F R2 L' F L2 F [@2] L' F' L F' L2 D2 L F2 D R'
Insert at @2: F2 U B U' F2 U B' U'
After the 2nd insertion: L' R F2 R B' R' F2 R2 F R2 L' F L2 F' [@3] U B U' F2 U B' U' L' F' L F' L2 D2 L F2 D R'
Insert at @3: F L2 F' R' F L2 F' R
Fewest moves: 32. 12 moves cancelled
The final solution: L' R F2 R B' R' F2 R2 F R L' F L2 F' R U B U' F2 U B' U' L' F' L F' L2 D2 L F2 D R'
 
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