[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[asacuber]

I found this nice domino reduction for the 3rd scramble of the german forum comp. However I couldn't finish it :/ Please help

Spoiler

R' U' F L2 B D2 B' L2 D2 B F' U2 L' B2 U L' R' D' F' U2 R U B D R' U' F

U' R2 F U' R'//EO
U' R2 D2 B'//DR

 

[NykoCuber1]

R' U' F L2 B D2 B' L2 D2 B F' U2 L' B2 U L' R' D' F' U2 R U B D R' U' F

U' R2 F U' R' // EO (5)
U' R2 D2 B' // DR (4)
(F2 D' L2) // SQ (3)
(U' R2) // SQ (2)
(U F2 U L2 F2 D2) // Finish (6)

Solution: U' R2 F U' R' U' R2 D2 B' D2 F2 L2 U' F2 U' R2 U L2 D F2 // 20

 

[WoowyBaby]

I found this nice domino reduction for the 3rd scramble of the german forum comp. However I couldn't finish it :/ Please help

R' U' F L2 B D2 B' L2 D2 B F' U2 L' B2 U L' R' D' F' U2 R U B D R' U' F

U' R2 F U' R'//EO
U' R2 D2 B'//DR

U2 B2 R2 U' B2 // Square-Pair-Line Layer (and 2 pairs)
U' L2 // Combine
U R2 U2 D' F2 // Finish
Kociemba Phase 2 Total: 12 moves

Does this help?

 

[asacuber]

R' U' F L2 B D2 B' L2 D2 B F' U2 L' B2 U L' R' D' F' U2 R U B D R' U' F

U' R2 F U' R' // EO (5)
U' R2 D2 B' // DR (4)
(F2 D' L2) // SQ (3)
(U' R2) // SQ (2)
(U F2 U L2 F2 D2) // Finish (6)

Solution: U' R2 F U' R' U' R2 D2 B' D2 F2 L2 U' F2 U' R2 U L2 D F2 // 20

Thanks a lot! I'm surprised i didnt even try out the first square, but I was looking for like 2 move squares and 1 move squares

(y')
D U F2 L2 U' F2 // Square-Pair-Line Layer (can sometimes be very useful)
D2 U L2 // 2x2x3/Combine
U R2 U R2 // 2-Gen Finish
Kociemba Phase 2 Total: 13 moves

Does this help?

Yes this does help! I didn't know about the square-pair-line layer, it looks like a really cool approach

Thanks! Hopefully the next time I get a DR i'll actually use it... lol

 

[WoowyBaby]

I wanted to share this great solve, not quite real personal best but it is STM PB!

Scr: R' U' F D2 B2 F U2 B' D2 L2 B' L2 F' D2 L U' B R' U' B2 R' B L2 R' D R' U' F

Spoiler: Solution, from current Weekly Comp

Solution: x2
L' B' R' F R' U' R
F2 M2 D' B2 M2 D
B2 R2 S2 U2
(17s, 20h)

Spoiler: Long talk (mostly) about HTO Reduction

The Phase 1 was the easiest I’ve ever seen, only 7 moves, and I got to use it because it led to a not-bad Phase 2, Half-Turn-Only phase was better than what I was trying to go for which is of course a plus too

Now Half-Turn-Only Reduction can be amazing. It really can, it’s even gotten me my current PB (19 moves). Anything to take away from this entire post is that HTO Redux is awesome.
The biggest thing to learn from this is the Half-Turn-Only Reduction in Phase 2:
F2 M2 D' B2 M2 D
F2 D’ B2 D would make the corner quadruplets that reduces corners to half turn only state, leaving 4 edges unsolved (unsolved as in not in their correct slices) able to be fixed using 2 “inserted” slice turns. If the top/bottom layer is misaligned by a quarter turn relative to the other then doing M2 (or S2) changes 4 edges, HTO good <-> HTO bad, similarly to doing a quarter F move changes edges, oriented <-> disoriented.
For corners to be in a half-turn-only state, look at a 2x2 and you will see what patterns are “allowed”. Basically to tell you, it has to be opposite colors on each side, and also “quadruplets”, it’s difficult to explain sorry, I’ll do my best, if you have two adj. corners then there will be three other duplicates of that pattern, the four pairs of corners are always the same.

 

[asacuber]

Wanted to share this very good solve, not quite real personal best but it is STM PB!

Scr: R' U' F D2 B2 F U2 B' D2 L2 B' L2 F' D2 L U' B R' U' B2 R' B L2 R' D R' U' F
Solution: x2
L' B' R' F R' U' R
F2 M2 D' B2 M2 D
B2 R2 S2 U2
(17s, 20h)

The Phase 1 was the easiest I’ve ever seen, only 7 moves, and I got to use it because it led to a not-bad Phase 2, Half-Turn-Only phase was better than what I was trying to go for which is of course a plus too

Now Half-Turn-Only Reduction can be amazing. It really can, it’s even gotten me my current PB (19 moves). Anything to take away from this entire post is that HTO Redux is awesome.
The biggest thing to learn from this is the Half-Turn-Only Reduction in Phase 2:
F2 M2 D' B2 M2 D
F2 D’ B2 D would make the corner quadruplets that reduces corners to half turn only state, leaving 4 edges unsolved (unsolved as in not in their correct slices) able to be fixed using 2 “inserted” slice turns. If the top/bottom layer is misaligned by a quarter turn relative to the other then doing M2 (or S2) changes 4 edges, HTO good <-> HTO bad, similarly to doing a quarter F move changes edges, oriented <-> disoriented.
For corners to be in a half-turn-only state, look at a 2x2 and you will see what patterns are “allowed”. Basically to tell you, it has to be opposite colors on each side, and also “quadruplets”, it’s difficult to explain sorry, I’ll do my best, if you have two adj. corners then there will be three other duplicates of that pattern, the four pairs of corners are always the same.

Nice! Please use spoilers though, as this is from the ongoing weekly comp

 

[asacuber]

Sorry for the double post, but the german forum isn't working for me. Is anyone else having this problem?

 

[mattboeren]

hi
does somebody know a site to train fmc?

 

[Duncan Bannon]

DG cubes website has an insertion trainer.

 

[Cale S]

23.67 pb mean (for the 4th time) but this time I used domino on all 3 solves

Spoiler: 25

R' U' F D2 R2 F' U' L' D' L' D F2 D2 B2 L2 D2 B2 U B2 U' L2 B' D' R' U' F

(F') F D' F' // EO
D' (D2 F2 R2 L' D) // DR
R2 D2 R' D2 R' F2 R B2 // solve corners, 18 to 9 edges

F D' F' D' R2 D2 @ R' % D2 R' F2 R B2 D' L R2 F2 D2 F

@ = B2 L B2 F2 R' ^ F2
^ = M'
% = M

Solution: F D' F' D' R2 D2 B2 L B2 F2 R2 L D2 L' D2 R' F2 R B2 D' L R2 F2 D2 F (25)

Spoiler: 25

R' U' F B' D' R B' U' L' F B L2 D2 F2 R2 L' D2 R' U2 D2 F2 L F2 D' R' U' F

R L' B' // EO
F2 D (L' F2 L2 U' R2 U) // DR
(R2 U2 R B2) // 15 to 3e3c

R L' B' F2 D B2 R' U2 @ R2 U' R2 U L2 F2 L

@ = U2 B F' L2 ^ F B'
^ = [R2, B' L' B]

Solution: R L' B' F2 D B2 R' B F' L2 R2 B' L' B R2 B' L F R2 U' R2 U L2 F2 L (25)

Spoiler: 21

R' U' F L2 U2 L2 D F2 D' L2 B2 U2 F2 U' B2 L U L' F D2 L2 D' R U2 R' U' F

F D2 R // EO
L2 U R2 U2 D' F // DR
U F2 U2 L2 U' R2 // solve corners, 15 to 3e3e

F D2 R L2 U R2 U2 D' F U F2 U2 L2 U' R2 @

@ = R2 U D' ^ F2 D U'
^ = D2 B F' R2 F B'

Solution: F D2 R L2 U R2 U2 D' F U F2 U2 L2 D B F' R2 F' B' D U' (21)


this can be a 20 if you insert some slices into the solution but I didn't have time

 

[mattboeren]

hi
does somebody know a site to train fmc?

i have found a fmc timer https://cubingtime.com/timer

 

[asacuber]

General question regarding PDR and DR: How do you avoid 2c2e parity? It's kinda become a nuisance for me

 

[asacuber]

Sorry for double post but thought i'd share this:

Scramble: R' U' F D B2 R2 B2 U2 L2 U B2 F2 D2 R' U2 B2 R B2 R' B' L D R2 B' U2 R' U' F

(L' U' R)//EO
U//Kociemban 222
F/Kociemban Diamond
D' B' D2 B//Kociemban F2L-1
D F' D F//DR

It looks slightly crappy and I couldn't find anything myself, so i gave it to ruwix's solver(which uses 2phase btw)
And believe it or not, the 2nd phase is 17 moves!!!
Can anyone find anything better? I don't think the solver is optimal...
What is the superflip of phase 2 states?

 

[WoowyBaby]

Sorry for double post but thought i'd share this:

Scramble: R' U' F D B2 R2 B2 U2 L2 U B2 F2 D2 R' U2 B2 R B2 R' B' L D R2 B' U2 R' U' F

(L' U' R)//EO
U//Kociemban 222
F/Kociemban Diamond
D' B' D2 B//Kociemban F2L-1
D F' D F//DR

It looks slightly crappy and I couldn't find anything myself, so i gave it to ruwix's solver(which uses 2phase btw)
And believe it or not, the 2nd phase is 17 moves!!!
Can anyone find anything better? I don't think the solver is optimal...

13 moves for Phase 1, not bad. For Phase 2, I believe the god's number is 16, so I'm pretty certain that program didn't solve it optimally.

Though I looked through this Phase 2, and it's not very good, if this was a real FMC attempt I might find a different Phase 1.
This is all I can find (maybe I could find a better solution if I looked harder but eh)-
Setup: R' U L R' U' F D B2 R2 B2 U2 L2 U B2 F2 D2 R' U2 B2 R B2 R' B' L D R2 B' U2 R' U' F U F D' B' D2 B D F' D F
[F2 cancels] U R2 U R2 U R2 U D F2 U' L2 U' // Half-Turn-Only Reduction (12)
B2 R2 U2 B2 R2 B2 L2 // Half-Turn-Only Finish (7)
Phase 2 Total: 19 HTM
13 + 19 = 32 move FMC, not bad.
By the way, if you ever struggle with Phase 2 just do HTO Reduction

What is the superflip of Phase 2 states? Who knows! I can't help here :/

 

[asacuber]

13 moves for Phase 1, not bad. For Phase 2, I believe the god's number is 16, so I'm pretty certain that program didn't solve it optimally.

Though I looked through this Phase 2, and it's not very good, if this was a real FMC attempt I might find a different Phase 1.
This is all I can find (maybe I could find a better solution if I looked harder but eh)-
Setup: R' U L R' U' F D B2 R2 B2 U2 L2 U B2 F2 D2 R' U2 B2 R B2 R' B' L D R2 B' U2 R' U' F U F D' B' D2 B D F' D F
[F2 cancels] U R2 U R2 U R2 U D F2 U' L2 U' // Half-Turn-Only Reduction (12)
B2 R2 U2 B2 R2 B2 L2 // Half-Turn-Only Finish (7)
Phase 2 Total: 19 HTM (found a different HTOR but that HTOF was hard so I looked for a second one)
13 + 19 = 32 move FMC, not bad.
By the way, if you ever struggle with Phase 2 just do HTO Reduction

What is the superflip of Phase 2 states? Who knows! I can't help here :/

Thanks a lot! HTO reduction seems very cool, especially if corners are already reduced (and 4 edges have to be placed ) i might try it when i find a domino.
Coming to FMC '19?

In other news, I beat IF and did slice style edge insertions for the first time and it worked like a dream

(spoiler alert for the russian weekly)

Spoiler

R' U' F D2 L2 D R2 F2 D F2 L2 D B2 R U L F D L' R F2 R' D B2 R' U' F //Scramble

(L')//pair
(U2)//sq
(F' R F)//222
(D B2 L D B' L2 B2)D2//F2L-1
L D L' D' B D' B2 L' B L D//AB3E in 24

D2 $ L D L' D' B D' * B2 L' B L D B2 L2 B D' L' B2 D' F' R' F U2 L

*= D2 Dw2 (2-1=1)
$= L B U2 Uw2 B' L' (6-2=4) Would've been easier to spot during the next move

Final: D2 L B U2 D2 F' D R' D' F D U2 B2 L' B L D B2 L2 B D' L' B2 D' F' R' F U2 L//29

 

[Lvl9001Wizard]

I got 2 skeletons for a scramble, a 2e3c (one twisted corner, 2 edges need to swap, 2 corners need to swap) in 18 and 3c in 26. Which would be better to work on (say, if you couldn’t try both). On average how many moves is 2e3c?

Also I’m not sure about other ways, do tell me if there are, but I would guess in order to solve 2e3c I do a 2e2c alg to get the edges correct and get the twisted corner out of its position - hence reducing into a 3c skeleton.

TLDR: average move count for 2e3c insertion + best/good ways to do 2e3c insertion.
Also: what about 3e2c? (One flipped edge and 2e2c)

 

[Loser]

2e2c+1 is parity and sounds awful to do, I'd probs go for the 26 to 3c. No idea which is better tho.

If this is from a solve can u share scramble and skeleton(s)?

 

[WoowyBaby]

[Deleted]

—————

This is unrelated, but I don’t want to triple post, so here’s the solve a did yesterday that took me 3 hours(!) to find this solution- it’s pretty darn cool.

Spoiler

Scramble: D2 R' B2 L' D' F' L U' B' L2 B2 L2 U2 L2 D L2 F2 U L2 D'

D F U // SQ
R B' L2 // 222
R' // SQ
U' F2 U' (F') // SQ
(F2) L' U R2 U' // SQ
L F2 // Align
R2 // SQ
U' F' U' F R' // Finish
23 HTM
It’s just so elegant, right?

Spoiler

I found other solutions before starting this so I didn’t spent all 3 hours on this one, anyway I got stuck after the U' F2 U' F' and I finally found F2 U R2 U' to continue but it left me with a AB3C skeleton but I didn’t want to use insertions because it was in 3x3 example solve thread so I wanted a linear solution, and so I saw F2 L' U R2 U' worked great (basically gave me a skip). I think just building squares until the end looks really nice.

—————

Instead of triple/quadruple post I’ll edit this post again lol. Has anyone thought of leaving centers for their skeleton to insert a center alg?
They’re only 4 stm / 8 htm so the same length as three corners. Here’s the main two cases:
R L' U' D F B' R L' (8)
R2 L2 U' D F2 B2 U' D (8)
Maybe useful? I haven’t tested it in a real solve so I don’t really know.

 

[asacuber]

1st scramble was nice, found an 11 move domino which I lost and several different eos.

I got a dnf

 

[WoowyBaby]

Today is FMC 2019!
Good luck to everyone competing!