[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[G2013]

I need help. I can't find a good way to continue this.
Scramble is from German Forum

Everything between () is made on inverse

Spoiler

Scramble: L' R D2 R2 B2 D2 R2 B2 U2 R2 U' L' R2 D2 R' U2 F D2 B' U'
Inverse: U B D2 F' U2 R D2 R2 L U R2 U2 B2 R2 D2 B2 R2 D2 R' L

(F2 D2 F2) //2x2x1
(R B' L2) //2x2x2
(U2 R') //Premoves
R' F' U2 R' U' F R2 //F2L-1 -> Premoves R U2

Overall the premoves are: R U2 L2 B R' F2 D2 F2

Thank you

 

[KevinG]

Amazing solve. I'd wish to be so good at FMC xD

By the way, where is the German Forum Weekly Competition?

EDIT: Nevermind

There is also a weekly comp on speedcubers.de

 

[G2013]

There is also a weekly comp on speedcubers.de

Great, thanks for letting me know it

 

[CyanSandwich]

Haha, got a 33 with a CFOP finish. Then I found a L3C solution with a 6 move insertion, But it was 34 moves.

Scramble: D2 U2 B' F' R2 U2 F R2 B' D2 F U' L' D2 R D F' U2 R2 D B

Spoiler

D' F' L' B L R B2 //2x2x2
F' D' L D2 L2 //2x2x3
D2 L' F' D' R F2 R' //F2L-1
D L D' L' //F2L
R D F D' F' D F D' F' R' //LL
33 moves

D' F' * L' B L R B2 //2x2x2
F' D' L' D L2 D L //2x2x3
F' D' F2 //F2L-1 (If someone can find a better continuation from here I'd really appreciate it)
D2 F D F' //F2L
B' L' D' L D B D'//L3C

*= F L F' R' F L' F' R

D' L F' R' F L' F' R L' B L R B2 F' D' L' D L2 D L F' D' F2 D2 F D F' B' L' D' L D B D'
34 moves

There was probably a better insertion further along though.

Edit: Cool, my first sub-30 (excluding the >1hour 23 mover)

Scramble: U' F' B' D2 R2 D L D F' D F' U2 D2 F' U2 B' R2 D2 B2 L2 U2
Solution: U R2 U F' L' D F2 U F' L' B R' U L' U R2 U' L U R' B R B' R' B2 R B' R' B (29)

Spoiler

U R2 U F' L' D F2 U F' L' //2x2x3 (added 3 extra moves)
B R' U2 * R //F2L-1
B R B' R' B2 R B' R' B //L3C (23)

RBW - YBR - BOY

* = U' L' U R2 U' L U R2 //cancels 2

 

[Sebastien]

The solutions from my second (tied) 25.00 FMC WR Mean:

1st attempt: 26 moves (a good solve)

Spoiler

Scramble: F2 U B2 F2 L2 B2 D' R' D2 L2 U B2 L' F D2 R' B U2 R'
Inverse: R U2 B' R D2 F' L B2 U' L2 D2 R D B2 L2 F2 B2 U' F2

With premoves L' F2 on Inverse:
EO+2x2x3: R L' F' U D L D B L'
L4C: D2 B L' R' B R B' L

Skeleton: F2 B * R' B' R L B' D2 L B' # D' L' D' U' F L R'

* = B' R' F R B R' F' R
# = B D F' D' B' D F D'

Solution: F2 R' F R B R' F' B' R L B' D2 L D F' D' B' D F D2 L' D' U' F L R'

26 moves.

2nd attempt: 27 moves (a terrible solve...read below.)

Spoiler

Scramble: U R2 F2 U F2 R2 B2 R U' R' F2 L' D2 U' L D2 F2
Inverse: F2 D2 L' U D2 L F2 R U R' B2 R2 F2 U' F2 R2 U'

EO already done! I found so many promising starts for this scramble, my scratch sheet was completely filled and it was hard to decide on what to look at in detail and I quite lost the focus while looking for a really amazing start. At about 48 minutes, I decided to finish the following L4C skeleton (16 moves).

With premoves B2 U2 on Inverse:
2x2x3: R D R U' R D R' * U'
3C3E: D' R' D2 R2

L4C: * = R' D2 R D2

Skeleton for normal scramble: U2 B2 R2 D2 R U D' # R' D2 R2 D' R' U R' D' R'

But for some reason, I really messed up at this point, scrambled wrong a few times and lost about 3-4 minutes. So it took me quite I while to find:

# = D L D' R' D L' D' R

At this point I had only 2 minutes left. I did a very quick pass through, in which I wasn't able to find the one move cancelation that the IF has now revealed to me. Instead, I added an 8 mover at the beginning, to not end up with a DNF:

Solution: F' D B2 D' F D B2 D' U2 B2 R2 D2 R U L D' R' D L' D R2 D' R' U R' D' R'

27 moves.

So indead, this should have been a 26 move solution with a better time management that I usually have. Well, maybe next time.

Also I have a feeling that I missed a really good solution for this scramble. Jan, who had a different 27 had the same feeling. So please someone her do me a favour and humiliate me by finding the obvious sub25 solution for this scramble.

3rd attempt: 22 moves (a first very lucky, then not so lucky solve)

Spoiler

Scramble: R F2 U2 R' D2 R' B2 L' U2 R' B' D B F' U2 L B L' U' R'
Inverse: R U L B' L' U2 F B' D' B R U2 L B2 R D2 R U2 F2 R'

Pseudo-2x2x2: U B2 R
EO: F' *
Pseudo-F2L-1: D2 L D L' D' L' F2
L3C (!!!): U' R' D' R

at this point I was really hoping for WR/ER single and a sub25 average, but apparently I got lucky enough for one solve:

* = F' R B' R' F R B R'

Solution: U B2 R F2 R B' R' F R B R' D2 L D L' D' L' F2 U' R' D' R

22 moves.

By the way, I also tried solving this with two insertion and ended up with 6+3 move cancelation, hence 22 moves again.

 

[kinch2002]

The solutions from my second (tied) 25.00 FMC WR Mean:

2nd attempt: 27 moves (a terrible solve...read below.)

Spoiler

Scramble: U R2 F2 U F2 R2 B2 R U' R' F2 L' D2 U' L D2 F2
...
Also I have a feeling that I missed a really good solution for this scramble. Jan, who had a different 27 had the same feeling. So please someone her do me a favour and humiliate me by finding the obvious sub25 solution for this scramble.

I found a skeleton with 3 minutes that gives me 25 (using IF).

B2 D2 R' L F2 L' U2 // 2x2x3 (+EO). I saw this by using B2 D2 R' U2 2x2x2 then seeing that I could solve another "orange F2L pair" with 5 moves starting with U2
D R D R2 D' R2 D' R' D' R2 // Pseudo F2L then correction, leaving 4 corners in 17 moves (1 worse than you, but nice insertions possible )

IF:
B2 D2 R' L [@1] F2 L' U2 D R D R2 D' R2 D' R' D' R2
Insert at @1: L' B' L F2 L' B L F2
After the 1st insertion: B2 D2 R' B' L F2 L' [@2] B U2 D R D R2 D' R2 D' R' D' R2
Insert at @2: L U' R U L' U' R' U

Will try for a bit more and post again if necessary.

Congrats btw

 

[Cale S]

tied my official 32.33 mean at Nationals

somebody good seriously needs to try the 3rd scramble, I found a 13 move F2L...

Spoiler: 34

scramble: F2 R' F' L' B' U F U2 L' B' D2 L U2 L2 D2 F2 R' L2

on inverse - R' U' R L' F2 // 2x2x2
R' U B L' B2 L // 2x2x3
on normal - R2 B' U R U' R' // to L3E + L3C

skeleton: R2 * B' U R U' R' L' B2 L B' U' R F2 L R' U R
insert at *: [R U2 R', D'] // corner cycle

new skeleton: R' U2 R' D' R ** U2 R' D B' U R U' R' L' B2 L B' U' R F2 L R' U R
insert at **: [R2, E' L E] // edge cycle

final solution: R' U2 R' D' R' U' D F D' U R2 D U' F' D' U' R' D B' U R U' R' L' B2 L B' U' R F2 L R' U R (34)

Insertion Finder got 27 with my skeleton :'(

Spoiler: 31

scramble: R2 D F2 L2 R2 D' B2 F2 U' B U2 L' F D' U2 B' F' D2 L B2

on inverse - F' // form pair
on normal - L' D F' U' R' U R // lolterrible 2x2x2 I don't even know
D L2 B2 // 2x2x3
B D2 B' // form some pairs
on inverse - D L' D' L D2 // pseudo F2L - 1
L2 F L2 F' L2 D' L' D' // to L3C

skeleton: L' D F' U' R' U R D L2 B' D2 B' D L D L2 F L2 F' L2 D2 L' * D L D' F'
insert at *: [L2, D R D'] // L3C

final solution: L' D F' U' R' U R D L2 B' D2 B' D L D L2 F L2 F' L2 D2 L D R D' L2 D R' L D' F' (31)

Spoiler: 32

scramble: L2 R2 F2 D L2 F2 D' L' F U2 L' R B L B' U2 F L2

on inverse - R2 L' F2 L' // 2x2x2
F D' R' F // lolwtf pseudo F2L - 1 in 8 moves
on normal - R2 // fix pseudoness
on inverse - F L' F' L D2 F L' F' L D2 L D' L' D2 L D L' D2 // spam triggers to L3C

skeleton: R2 D2 L D' * L' D2 L D L' D2 L' F L F' D2 L' F L F2 R D F' L F2 L R2
insert at *: [F' R F, L'] // L3C

final solution: R2 D2 L D' F' R F L' F' R F D2 L D L' D2 L' F L F' D2 L' F L F2 R D F' L F2 L R2 (32)

 

[jpbrc]

The solutions from my second (tied) 25.00 FMC WR Mean:

2nd attempt: 27 moves (a terrible solve...read below.)

Spoiler

Scramble: U R2 F2 U F2 R2 B2 R U' R' F2 L' D2 U' L D2 F2
Inverse: F2 D2 L' U D2 L F2 R U R' B2 R2 F2 U' F2 R2 U'

EO already done! I found so many promising starts for this scramble, my scratch sheet was completely filled and it was hard to decide on what to look at in detail and I quite lost the focus while looking for a really amazing start. At about 48 minutes, I decided to finish the following L4C skeleton (16 moves).

With premoves B2 U2 on Inverse:
2x2x3: R D R U' R D R' * U'
3C3E: D' R' D2 R2

L4C: * = R' D2 R D2

Skeleton for normal scramble: U2 B2 R2 D2 R U D' # R' D2 R2 D' R' U R' D' R'

But for some reason, I really messed up at this point, scrambled wrong a few times and lost about 3-4 minutes. So it took me quite I while to find:

# = D L D' R' D L' D' R

At this point I had only 2 minutes left. I did a very quick pass through, in which I wasn't able to find the one move cancelation that the IF has now revealed to me. Instead, I added an 8 mover at the beginning, to not end up with a DNF:

Solution: F' D B2 D' F D B2 D' U2 B2 R2 D2 R U L D' R' D L' D R2 D' R' U R' D' R'

27 moves.

So indead, this should have been a 26 move solution with a better time management that I usually have. Well, maybe next time.

Also I have a feeling that I missed a really good solution for this scramble. Jan, who had a different 27 had the same feeling. So please someone her do me a favour and humiliate me by finding the obvious sub25 solution for this scramble.

Wow! Amazing scramble for my style

10 minutes solution:

Spoiler

Pre-move: B2 U2
(inverse)
R2 U2 // pseudo 2x2x3-1c lol
R' D2 // pseudo-F2L-1-1c
(switch)
U2 B2 // F2L-1-1c
D R2 D' // F2L-1c
R D' R2 D R D' R D // AB3C

Skeleton: U2 B2 D R2 D' * R D' R2 D R D' R D' R U2 R2

*= D L' D' R' D L D' R

Solution: U2 B2 D R2 L' D' R' D L D' R2 D' R2 D R D' R D' R U2 R2 (21 moves)

Maybe sub20 is possible! I'll try here

 

[Julian]

Spoiler: 32

scramble: L2 R2 F2 D L2 F2 D' L' F U2 L' R B L B' U2 F L2

on inverse - R2 L' F2 L' // 2x2x2
F D' R' F // lolwtf pseudo F2L - 1 in 8 moves
on normal - R2 // fix pseudoness
on inverse - F L' F' L D2 F L' F' L D2 L D' L' D2 L D L' D2 // spam triggers to L3C

skeleton: R2 D2 L D' * L' D2 L D L' D2 L' F L F' D2 L' F L F2 R D F' L F2 L R2
insert at *: [F' R F, L'] // L3C

final solution: R2 D2 L D' F' R F L' F' R F D2 L D L' D2 L' F L F' D2 L' F L F2 R D F' L F2 L R2 (32)

Using your 9-move F2L-1:

(R2 L' F2 L')
(F D' R' F) R2
(D L' F L F' D2 F' D F)
(F L2 B' L' B L' F' D2)

for 25. Uncommon insert into easy short LL.

 

[Cale S]

Using your 9-move F2L-1:

(R2 L' F2 L')
(F D' R' F) R2
(D L' F L F' D2 F' D F)
(F L2 B' L' B L' F' D2)

for 25. Uncommon insert into easy short LL.

Nice, better than the best result gotten at the comp

but I just found a 24 I could have gotten if I knew OLLCP

on normal - R2 F'
on inverse - R2 L' F2 L' F D' R' // F2L - 1
on normal - D' F D F' // F2L in 13 moves wut
L' B R2 F R' F2 R F' R2 B' L // LL

R2 F' D' F D F' L' B R2 F R' F2 R F' R2 B' L R D F' L F2 L R2 (24)

 

[Marcel P]

2nd attempt: 27 moves (a terrible solve...read below.)

Spoiler

Scramble: U R2 F2 U F2 R2 B2 R U' R' F2 L' D2 U' L D2 F2
Inverse: F2 D2 L' U D2 L F2 R U R' B2 R2 F2 U' F2 R2 U'

EO already done! I found so many promising starts for this scramble, my scratch sheet was completely filled and it was hard to decide on what to look at in detail and I quite lost the focus while looking for a really amazing start. At about 48 minutes, I decided to finish the following L4C skeleton (16 moves).

With premoves B2 U2 on Inverse:
2x2x3: R D R U' R D R' * U'
3C3E: D' R' D2 R2

L4C: * = R' D2 R D2

Skeleton for normal scramble: U2 B2 R2 D2 R U D' # R' D2 R2 D' R' U R' D' R'

But for some reason, I really messed up at this point, scrambled wrong a few times and lost about 3-4 minutes. So it took me quite I while to find:

# = D L D' R' D L' D' R

At this point I had only 2 minutes left. I did a very quick pass through, in which I wasn't able to find the one move cancelation that the IF has now revealed to me. Instead, I added an 8 mover at the beginning, to not end up with a DNF:

Solution: F' D B2 D' F D B2 D' U2 B2 R2 D2 R U L D' R' D L' D R2 D' R' U R' D' R'

27 moves.

So indead, this should have been a 26 move solution with a better time management that I usually have. Well, maybe next time.

Also I have a feeling that I missed a really good solution for this scramble. Jan, who had a different 27 had the same feeling. So please someone her do me a favour and humiliate me by finding the obvious sub25 solution for this scramble.

The skeleton without your Sexy-Move/Sledgehammer Insertion is just a G-Perm. When you put the right G-Perm at the End of your solution you will get a 25 Move Solution:

On Inverse:
R D R U' R D R' U' D' R' D2 R2 (your skelton without premoves)
L' D R' D2 L D' R B F D2 F' B' (My feet G-Perm with 1 Cancellation)
B2 U2 (Undo Premoves)

 

[Jan Bentlage]

So here is my 22 tied PB from N8W8:

Scramble: R F2 U2 R' D2 R' B2 L' U2 R' B' D B F' U2 L B L' U' R'

Inverse
EO: F2 L' F
switch
pseudo-blocks: R2 U R
switch
2x2x3: U' B2 U B2
switch
3C3E: D L2 D' L' D

skeleton: R2 U R (.) D L2 D' (-) L' D B2 U' B2 U F' L F2
(-) D L D L D L' D' L' D' L'
(.) R' D L' D' R D L D' (7 move cancelation!)

Solution: R2 U D L' D' R D2 L D L' D' L' D' L2 D B2 U' B2 U F' L F2 (22)


I still feel a bit embarressed, because I couldn't find a good solution on the second scramble. There was just too much to try ...

 

[fabdabs1234]

2nd attempt: 27 moves


Scramble: U R2 F2 U F2 R2 B2 R U' R' F2 L' D2 U' L D2 F2

my 30 move solution (was pretty jammy, not much skill involved)

U' R2 U 1x2x2 block

D' R2 2x2x2 block

L' U' L' U2 2x2x3 block

L2 U' L2 U L U' L' U L' F2l

D U2 L' U L' U' L2 U L' U D' B2 OLL with pll skip

 

[Sebastien]

Pre-move: B2 U2
(inverse)
R2 U2 // pseudo 2x2x3-1c lol
R' D2 // pseudo-F2L-1-1c
(switch)
U2 B2 // F2L-1-1c
D R2 D' // F2L-1c
R D' R2 D R D' R D // AB3C

Skeleton: U2 B2 D R2 D' * R D' R2 D R D' R D' R U2 R2

*= D L' D' R' D L D' R

Solution: U2 B2 D R2 L' D' R' D L D' R2 D' R2 D R D' R D' R U2 R2 (21 moves)

The skeleton without your Sexy-Move/Sledgehammer Insertion is just a G-Perm. When you put the right G-Perm at the End of your solution you will get a 25 Move Solution:

On Inverse:
R D R U' R D R' U' D' R' D2 R2 (your skelton without premoves)
L' D R' D2 L D' R B F D2 F' B' (My feet G-Perm with 1 Cancellation)
B2 U2 (Undo Premoves)

Thanks, that's the humiliation I asked for. I even had this F2L-1c, but chose the wrong path apparently. I also kind of know these G-Perms, but I didn't have in mind that they had a U2 AUF. So yes, this is a sub25 fail...but likely not my first. Maybe next time.

 

[2180161]

Scramble: U' B2 R2 U' F2 L2 F2 D L2 D2 L2 B' L2 U R B D2 B R2 B F2

Inverse: F2 B' R2 B' D2 B' R' U' L2 B L2 D2 L2 D' F2 L2 F2 U R2 B2 U

On inverse: U R' F psuedo 2x2

on original, premoves F' R U': R2 2x2

on inverse, premove R2: U R' F L2 B D B D2

On original, premoves D2 B' D' B' L2 F' R U': R2 L2 B L B' L' U B' U'

On inverse, premoves: U B U' L B L' B' L2 R2: U R' F L2 B D B D2 B2

Now, I cant seem to find any good continuations, original or inverse. What would you guys do? Also, how would I write my solution if this were it?

 

[Torch]

My FMC results from US Nationals: 35, DNF, 31

Scramble #1: F2 R' F' L' B' U F U2 L' B' D2 L U2 L2 D2 F2 R' L2

Spoiler

on inverse:
R' U' R L' F2//2x2x2
R' B U' R' U2//2x2x3
B R' B2 R' B//F2L-1
on normal:
D' R D//F2L
on inverse:
B' D B R B' R' D' R B//OLL
B R B' D2 L' F R' F' R F' L D2//PLL

Solution: D' R D' L' F R' F R F' L D2 B R' B2 R' D R B R' B' D' R B2 R B' U2 R U B' R F2 L R' U R (35)

I worked this scramble some more later that night and managed to find this:

on inverse:
B' D L2//pseudo 2x2x2
on normal:
L R2 D2 R D2//pseudo 2x2x3
on inverse:
D U' B2 U R B R'//L5C

Skeleton: L [2] R2 D2 R D2 R B' R' [1] U' B2 U D' L2 D' B

[1]: B' D' B U' B' D B U
[2]: L U' L' D L U L' D'

Solution: L2 U' L' D L U L' D' R2 D2 R D2 R B' R' B' D' B U' B' D B' U D' L2 D' B (27)

Scramble #2: R2 D F2 L2 R2 D' B2 F2 U' B U2 L' F D' U2 B' F' D2 L B2

Spoiler

F L' D L' B' R2//2x2x2
on inverse:
F2 D F2 D//Pseudo 2x2x3
on normal:
D2 L F L' D F' D'//F2L-1
F' L F2 L' F L F' L'//F2L
L F L D' L' D L' F L F2 L F2//LL

Solution: F L' D L' B' R2 D2 L F L' D F' D' F' L F2 L' F L2 D' L' D L' F L F2 L' F2 D' F2 D' F2 (32)

Couldn't write it down in time.

Scramble #3: L2 R2 F2 D L2 F2 D' L' F U2 L' R B L B' U2 F L2

Spoiler

L F' R' F' R' F2 R' L2//2x2x3 + pair
on inverse:
D2 B' L2 B//F2L-1
on normal:
D2 F' D F D L B D' B' L' D//L3C

Skeleton: L F' R' [1] F' R' F2 R' L2 D2 F' D F D L B D' B' L' D B' L2 B D2

[1]: F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R

Solution: L F' R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R F' R' F2 R' L2 D2 F' D F D L B D' B' L' D B' L2 B D2 (31)

I only had 6-7 minutes left when I found that skeleton, so I couldn't find the optimal insertion, which cancelled one move

 

[APdRF]

Scramble: F U F B2 L' B2 L2 B D F2 L2 B L2 B2 R2 D2 F U2 F2 U2

I found this ab4e: F D' U L U' L' F U' B2 U' D' L D2 L' U R' D R D2 R' D2 R F' D'

IF gives me 11 moves cancelations for insertions, but I can't find them by hand, can you help me?

Explanation:

F D' U L U' L' F (EO) - 7
U' B2 (2x2x2) - 9
U' D' L D2 L' U (3x2x2) - 15
R' D R D2 R' D2 R F' D' (ab4e) - 24

That's the best I found, the scramble seems hard to me!

 

[2180161]

Scramble: F U F B2 L' B2 L2 B D F2 L2 B L2 B2 R2 D2 F U2 F2 U2

I found this ab4e: F D' U L U' L' F U' B2 U' D' L D2 L' U R' D R D2 R' D2 R F' D'

IF gives me 11 moves cancelations for insertions, but I can't find them by hand, can you help me?

Explanation:

F D' U L U' L' F (EO) - 7
U' B2 (2x2x2) - 9
U' D' L D2 L' U (3x2x2) - 15
R' D R D2 R' D2 R F' D' (ab4e) - 24

That's the best I found, the scramble seems hard to me!

I couldn't find any (I'm not good at FMC tho), but why do you do ab4e, rather than ab3c?

also, why did you break your eo?

 

[Joey VOV]

I failed all 3 attempts at nats, so I went back to try the 3rd scramble because it was so nice, and I got this. Very disappointed I didn't see this then.

Scramble: L2 R2 F2 D L2 F2 D' L' F U2 L' R B L B' U2 F L2
Inverse Scramble: L2 F' U2 B L' B' R' L U2 F' L D F2 L2 D' F2 R2 L2

On Inverse

R D2 R' L' D2 R2 L' D' R' / pseudo F2L-1 premove R2 (9+1)
B R D R' D' B' D2 / to L5C (16+1)

Skeleton: R2 D2 B D R D'^ R' B' R D L R2 D2 L R D2 R'
Insert at ^: D L2 D' R2 D L2 D' R2

updated skeleton: R2 D2 B* D R L2 D' R2 D L2 D' R B' R D L R2 D2 L R D2 R'
Insert at *: B L2 B' R2 B L2 B' R2

Final Solution: R2 D2 B2 L2 B' R2 B L2 B' R2 D R L2 D' R2 D L2 D' R B' R D L R2 D2 L R D2 R' (29)

 

[APdRF]

I couldn't find any (I'm not good at FMC tho), but why do you do ab4e, rather than ab3c?

also, why did you break your eo?

I was just trying after I found nothing good, and this seemed to me like it could be a good finish. I broke the EO because that seemed a good price to pay, but I don't know if this finish is worth it and that's the reason I'm asking for help