[Help Thread] F2L Intuitive vs. Algorithm Solving

[foltens]

F2L algorithms?

So I've been wondering if f2l algorithms be useful in solving, like when paris are oriented wrong but together instead of breaking them apart just use an algorithm or when the edge or corner r in the 1st lair or 2nd lair

 

[TomTom]

one i like is corner is in right spot, edge flipped, alg is F2 U2 R' F2 R U2 F U' F

 

[foltens]

one i like is corner is in right spot, edge flipped, alg is F2 U2 R' F2 R U2 F U' F

this still doesn't answer my question

 

[TomTom]

this completely answers one of your questions. it is one of the algs the fixs it when the edge is on the second layer, and there is one on the top and it is flipped

 

[adimare]

Have you tried R U' R' d R' U2 R U2 R' U R? I Like it because you don't lose sight of the top layer while executing it.

 

[foltens]

what I'm trying to ask is that are f2l algorithms useful when solving, will it reduce time

 

[cagedpanda]

Intuitive or algorithmic F2L? Where should I start learning?

Hi beginner to CFOP here. I was recently watching badmephistos f2l tutorials and his how to become a speed cuber video. I was watching and i noticed he said that he'd be teaching intuitive f2l. I was just wondering what way i should learn f2l (between intuitive and algorithms) and the pros and cons of each method.

P.S. I have a PB of 1:09 using beginners method.

Do you think you guys could lead me in the right direction?

Thank you and sorry if this has been posted before its just that my search function isn't working very well.

 

[TDM]

Don't learn F2L algorithmically; learn it intuitively. Pros: you can learn to look ahead, you'll learn more useful stuff (e.g. very basic blockbuilding). Cons: idk

 

[Randomno]

Intuitive with a few algs for hard cases.

 

[TomTom]

algs are better for harder cases, intuitive is better

 

[JasonDL13]

What the people said before, algs for harder cases. Intuitive for the rest.

Why: There are ~50 algs. And with intuitive you can choose how you want to solve it. (Ex: The algs have a lot of D' turns. With intuitive I can solve it w/o any D turns, since I hate them). Also: With intuitive you don't need to memorize all the algs for the rest of the slots (50x4=200 algs). So you can put in F2L pairs into multiple slots. Without any new algs.

I remember when I found the alg website for F2L. I decided to learn 1 alg a day and almost forgot them instantly. Then realized intuitive is much better,

One more thing: Are you learning CFOP F2L, with Beginners Last Layer? If so: Learn 4 Look Last Layer, then learn F2L for CFOP. You probably want an explanation for why, and I don't really have one. But it's just easier, and faster. Learning F2L will bump your times up for ~1 week (Or if you're like me, 1 day because I did ~100 solves in a short period of time), then they will lower them.

TL;RD: Learn intuitive. Learn CFOP LL before F2L.

 

[nalralz]

Intuitive for all of f2l and maybe a few very advanced algs for strange and hard cases later on when you are like sub-30 or less. (I am currently sub-18 and got a sub-20 fail at my most recent competition)

 

[EvilGnome6]

Like others have said, intuitive is better but I think it's worth spending time studying the algorithms to improve your intuition. Sometimes your intuition overlooks a simpler or more elegant way to handle a case.

 

[cagedpanda]

What the people said before, algs for harder cases. Intuitive for the rest.

Why: There are ~50 algs. And with intuitive you can choose how you want to solve it. (Ex: The algs have a lot of D' turns. With intuitive I can solve it w/o any D turns, since I hate them). Also: With intuitive you don't need to memorize all the algs for the rest of the slots (50x4=200 algs). So you can put in F2L pairs into multiple slots. Without any new algs.

I remember when I found the alg website for F2L. I decided to learn 1 alg a day and almost forgot them instantly. Then realized intuitive is much better,

One more thing: Are you learning CFOP F2L, with Beginners Last Layer? If so: Learn 4 Look Last Layer, then learn F2L for CFOP. You probably want an explanation for why, and I don't really have one. But it's just easier, and faster. Learning F2L will bump your times up for ~1 week (Or if you're like me, 1 day because I did ~100 solves in a short period of time), then they will lower them.

TL;RD: Learn intuitive. Learn CFOP LL before F2L.

Thank you so much lol this is what i needed to know. Also does a nobody have any other good resources for learning intuitively?

 

[mark49152]

Thank you so much lol this is what i needed to know. Also does a nobody have any other good resources for learning intuitively?

Rishi's hunting story is a fun way for beginners.

Just to add to what others have said: to get good at F2L, you need flexibility in your solutions. You need to be able to mirror from right to left, or front to back, to solve into any slot; do the setup part of a solution against an empty slot before rotating or inserting to the back, etc. The advantage of learning intuitively is that it's easier to do all that because you understand how the pieces move around.

Algs are OK for some cases but they are invariably given for solving into the FR slot and are harder to mirror or adapt, as well as being less helpful for developing understanding of the cube. If you do learn algs, take the time to figure out how they work.

 

[Robert-Y]

I don't understand why basically everyone is saying intuitive. I learnt it algorithmically (is that even a word? no? ok...). I felt that it helped me. You can understand the algorithms later. The algorithms are short and easy to learn. If I learnt it intuitively then I would bet that I would pause more to think about what to do for each case since I haven't "learnt" what to do for the case. I don't really have to think at all if I know the algorithms. I only need to be able to recall these (short) algorithms, which for me is less time consuming.

 

[Chree]

I agree with Robert. Algorithmic learning is just fine.

I will say, however, that intuitive F2L is a nice way to familiarize yourself with HOW different cases get solved, while algorithmic simply solves them. Either way, if you do intuitive long enough, you wind up performing specific algorithms for specific cases just like anyone else would. So why not skip a step?

 

[cagedpanda]

I agree with Robert. Algorithmic learning is just fine.

I will say, however, that intuitive F2L is a nice way to familiarize yourself with HOW different cases get solved, while algorithmic simply solves them. Either way, if you do intuitive long enough, you wind up performing specific algorithms for specific cases just like anyone else would. So why not skip a step?

By skip a step you mean?

 

[Chree]

By skip a step you mean?

Instead of figuring out how to solve the case on the fly, just do an algorithm.

 

[cagedpanda]

Thanks to all of you for your answers. I think I'm gonna do a bit of both. More algs than intuitive. I just figured that alga would be easier to do on the fly but intuitive is a good building block and might help me on other puzzles.

Gonna go learn some algs!