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Changes to the Weekly Competition website

Mike Hughey

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The WCA indicator is not a bad idea; the hard part is figuring out all the best places to put it. It would be easy enough to put it in a corner on the Weekly View and Manual Entry pages and in the Timer page. It's harder to figure out where to put it in the rankings.

I'm not sure how hard this would be to fix, but there's a minor issue with manually entering times. It's the same in Chrome and Firefox: if I click away from the line for entering times, to enter a comment or DNF, +2, or to edit a time, the spot I need to click to get the cursor in the correct place again is a very narrow line above where the time is actually written.
The manual entry in the timer page is pretty clunky. I should really completely revamp it. It was the best I could do at the time to allow it to still mostly work from a phone as well as from a computer, but it's not very good. I'd like to try to make it better; I need to find the time to work on it. But it will probably be at least a few months before I can get to it.
 

One Wheel

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The manual entry in the timer page is pretty clunky. I should really completely revamp it. It was the best I could do at the time to allow it to still mostly work from a phone as well as from a computer, but it's not very good. I'd like to try to make it better; I need to find the time to work on it. But it will probably be at least a few months before I can get to it.
It's clunky, but it works. I wasn't sure if you were aware of that particular issue. Don't sweat over it.
 

Mike Hughey

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@Mike Hughey Think there may be a bug somewhere in thne database / front end because this screen is showing different data for the same session

I'm 51st and 53rd at the same time for this weeks comp? (At the time of posting I am 51st so the top one is wrong)
I guess I hadn't noticed that the place is being recorded on the top location and that this could happen for the current week. Current week rankings are calculated in a strange way because they're live; they get "properly" calculated when I finalize the results at the end of the week. Theoretically, what you're seeing should straighten itself out once I have finalized the week's results. I might see if I can figure out how to fix what you're seeing, but since hopefully it is only temporary, I don't consider it urgent. Please let me know if you find it is still incorrect next week when the results are finalized.
 

Mike Hughey

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Wow, okay, I guess it is a bug that goes beyond the current week. I wonder if it's because of the average "tie" at that place? I'll try to figure it out.

Edit: Okay, I have tried to fix it. It turned out there were several bugs in those tooltips. I fixed some of them; it would probably still be nice to see what place you were for a given week for singles when the event is judged by averages, or for averages when the event is judged by singles, but that would require some additional work that I don't think is worth the trouble right now. But I think that the initial problem you pointed out should be fixed. Please let me know if you see any other problems.
 
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PingPongCuber

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Suggestion: For curvy copter scrambles, could you put jumbling moves in parentheses? It makes scrambling so much easier to keep track of and do those moves. I found how nice it was after using the scrambles here: https://extraevents.org/events/curvycopter/training#

Another curvy copter note, it has been discussed that the best regulations for scrambling might be to jumble it, but not shape shift it due to bandaging and forcing moves, causing lots of issues and complications. Among the other solvers that I have talked to, it seems to be the most popular, but it was not totally comprehensive, so as a newer solver I do not want to speak for everyone. Not necessarily a suggestion for you to do, but possibly a discussion point and a possible change in the future.

Also, this has probably been mentioned, but an image of scrambles at least on some events would be awesome :)
 

One Wheel

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Suggestion: For curvy copter scrambles, could you put jumbling moves in parentheses? It makes scrambling so much easier to keep track of and do those moves. I found how nice it was after using the scrambles here: https://extraevents.org/events/curvycopter/training#

Another curvy copter note, it has been discussed that the best regulations for scrambling might be to jumble it, but not shape shift it due to bandaging and forcing moves, causing lots of issues and complications. Among the other solvers that I have talked to, it seems to be the most popular, but it was not totally comprehensive, so as a newer solver I do not want to speak for everyone. Not necessarily a suggestion for you to do, but possibly a discussion point and a possible change in the future.

Also, this has probably been mentioned, but an image of scrambles at least on some events would be awesome :)
I agree with the jumbling moves set apart in some way, whether that's parentheses, line breaks, or something else. I strongly disagree with the shape shifting part: that's an important part of the solve.

As far as images: I figure that checking the scramble and then solving it is cheating on inspection. Even if there were images I wouldn't use them.
 

Kit Clement

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I strongly disagree with the shape shifting part: that's an important part of the solve.
Honestly, cubeshape gets so heavily bandaged that I find this part of the solve highly trivial. This is especially true if moves are "forced" through pieces that barely block the way. I wouldn't mind the puzzle being just jumbling with no cubeshape, as jumbling to me is truly the most interesting part of this event compared to any other puzzle. Additionally, I think that if this puzzle were to ever be considered as an event, the logistics of dealing with this puzzle in non-cube form are too much for scramble images and running/setting the puzzle that I'd prefer to practice and make normal a version of the event that's actually competition viable.
 

PingPongCuber

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I agree with the jumbling moves set apart in some way, whether that's parentheses, line breaks, or something else. I strongly disagree with the shape shifting part: that's an important part of the solve.

As far as images: I figure that checking the scramble and then solving it is cheating on inspection. Even if there were images I wouldn't use them.
That is why I made sure to say that I don’t want to speak for the whole community. But @OreKehStrah, @Kit Clement and I seem to all agree that it cubeshape could be thrown out, here is why:
- Mostly a trivial step, not a ton of method or higher level thinking necessary
- Shapeshifting makes drawing scrambles an arduous task
- Bandaging makes the puzzle a mess
- Differences in hardware make certain moves possible on some puzzles, but not on others.
- Jumbling adds fun aspects to the solve, but not the cubeshape step.
- Adds so much confusion and a lot of issues to the event. Some moves won’t happen unless forced, are those legal? If not, then there is a limit to the amount cubeshape can be scrambled before these moves are the only option. If so, then differences in hardware provide different solving advantages to some, and it gets closer and closer to issues like twisting a corner on 3x3. It is commonly accepted as being not allowed to solve the puzzle. I think this shows that just because it can happen does not mean it is part of the solve.

This is exactly why I wanted to bring this point up, I am glad you shared your opinion.
Back to images, I guess I might agree with you on that, I had forgotten that issue
 

OreKehStrah

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Yeah, dealing with cubeshape is just an absolute drag of a step and is one of the main reasons I don't participate in the weekly comps. It's not interesting, fun, or standardized. You instead get a locky mess to undo before you can actually get the cube back to it's cubic form. I don't know a single person who enjoys dealing with cubeshape as a step.
 

qwr

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I suggested two categories: one for jumbling and one for non-jumbling, as long as there is sufficient interest. (Personally I like the solve without jumbling) Because for weekly comps there's no burden of official judging and it's pretty much adding yet another event to the list.
 

One Wheel

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@Kit Clement and @PingPongCuber I like the intuitive aspect of solving, and for me the shape shifting aspect of CC is just that.

As far as competition viability, I believe that any scramble graphic would have to have at least 3 different pictures: after non- jumbling moves, after jumbling moves, and after shape shifting. Ideally future versions of tnoodle might even have the ability to show the scramble after any given move. I believe that this could save significant time on rescrambles. I'm not sure carrying and setting down are much to worry about: because of bandaging any incidental turns are likely to be trivial. This should likely be addressed in the regulations for CC, should it ever be added.
 

PingPongCuber

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I suggested two categories: one for jumbling and one for non-jumbling, as long as there is sufficient interest. (Personally I like the solve without jumbling) Because for weekly comps there's no burden of official judging and it's pretty much adding yet another event to the list.
I have practiced both as well, but the question is, on jumbling solves, is cubeshape mixed up?
 

qwr

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I mean by non-jumbling is that centers can switch orbits but the puzzle is always returns in cubeshape
 

OreKehStrah

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@Kit Clement and @PingPongCuber I like the intuitive aspect of solving, and for me the shape shifting aspect of CC is just that.

As far as competition viability, I believe that any scramble graphic would have to have at least 3 different pictures: after non- jumbling moves, after jumbling moves, and after shape shifting. Ideally future versions of tnoodle might even have the ability to show the scramble after any given move. I believe that this could save significant time on rescrambles. I'm not sure carrying and setting down are much to worry about: because of bandaging any incidental turns are likely to be trivial. This should likely be addressed in the regulations for CC, should it ever be added.
The hardware is just way too poor for me to think CS scrambling is worth it at all. It only adds additional complexity and would only further discourage new solvers. Modded hardware can easily fudge through the "bandaging" compared to stock hardware, which usually can on loose tensions. Furthermore, there isn't really room for creative/intuitive solutions to CS either. Either the CS scramble is trivial and it is extremely obvious how to get back to cubic form, or there is so much bandaging that you are pretty much forced into making specific turns for a while, reducing the cube into an obvious state, so there really isn't a lot of mental food there imo. Plus having to deal with cubeshape makes looking into the solving during inspection way worse, which inherently makes the event slower in general for a step with ambiguity of the the legality of some moves due to hardware differences, that the majority of solvers do not enjoy.

EDIT: Also, doing cubic jumbling scrambles opens the doors to more methods. For example, the topic of sorting the centers into the correct orbits, then solving the puzzle is relatively unexplored/unoptimized to my knowledge. A method like this would be 100% not worth doing if the cube also has cubeshape jumbling since it would make tracking all the orbits nearly impossible.
 
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