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[Help Thread] Beginners Method Discussion thread

aznanimedude

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short of better lookahead don't know, maybe faster TPS execution? Even with better lookahead you're better off jsut doing F2L anyway. F2L isn't even really that bad or hard to learn tbh.
 

omer

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well i first orient cross (1) permute edges (2) orient corners (3) permute corners (4)
as opposed to orient cross (1) orient corners (2) permute cross (3) permute corners (4)? seems about the same to me.
my concern is last layer aside, im still to slow in the first 2 layers. are there any tricks to get faster at the first 2 layers without going full blown f2l?
I currently place the bottom (white) corners such that each white side faces to the right if looking at the cube with white center on bottom and then using
either R U R' U' R U R' or its reverse to more easily place the middle edge into the middle layer. but having to do 4 bottom corners and then 4 middle edges takes me about 40 seconds. meaning even if i sped up my last layer, i'd still be too slow bc of first 2 layers
It seems to me that you tried to approach F2L in the algorithmic way of checking which case you have and looking up the alg for it. That's not how you learn F2L. Have you tried watching badmephisto's video on F2L? he explains it really well, try watching it and see it's really easy. Learning F2L isn't so bad, I taught my friend how to do it in 30 minutes. Of-course he was really slow and was doing it inefficiently but he was doing F2L and he got better at it with time. At first you'll be slow but keep practicing and you'll see how quickly your times go down.

Watch the video, if there's something you don't understand ask here in the forum and you'll get help instantly.
 

mark49152

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As a recent learner currently at about 45 seconds, I agree with the last couple of posters. Just learn F2L, it's really not that hard. I picked up intuitive F2L in an hour or two, although getting faster obviously takes lots of practice. You could make a case for sticking with your current method and trying to get faster TPS or whatever before learning F2L, but it wouldn't really make sense to learn a different beginners' method as an interim step.

For last layer, just learn 4-look last layer, meaning 2-look OLL and 2-look PLL. Minimum number of algs is only 4, because you can do each step with multiple iterations of the same alg - see steps 4-7 of Badmephisto's guide here: http://badmephisto.com/begsoln/. This worked for me because it's easy to add extra algs as you learn. First learn enough algs that you don't need multiple iterations per step, then start learning PLLs; but you can learn incrementally at your own pace, focusing on whatever step you want to improve, and every new alg you learn helps you on your way to full Fridrich. If you start learning to permute and orient things in a different order then you might not have as easy a transition to Fridrich.

FYI, it took me about 1-2 months to learn the algs for full PLL and 2-look OLL without iterations (about 30 algs total).
 

qqwref

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Care to explain why permuting before orienting is silly?
Because the recognition is worse. That's pretty much it. For a speed method you want to look at as little as possible to figure out what to do.

using the method I described above it works just fine
So does learning Classic Pochmann as a beginner method. But that's pretty silly too.
 

omer

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Because the recognition is worse. That's pretty much it. For a speed method you want to look at as little as possible to figure out what to do.
So does learning Classic Pochmann as a beginner method. But that's pretty silly too.
That's a good point, haven't thought of that.

And what I meant by "works just fine" is that it doesn't take a lot of moves, as you said the only problem is recog time. Old pochmann has a very high move count, it's not relevant here.
 

aavlee

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Hi all! I was given a new ZanChi as a gift and have been learning over the last few days on getting faster. Through Beginners method I hover around 90s for my 10 solve average. I'm working on learning 4LL as my next steps.

I have a question that I haven't been able to find through posts or videos. My first 2 layers are done by Cross (on bottom), Keyhole -> 3 corners, 4 edges, last corner. I do a LOT of spinning and looking around when working on my 2nd layer edges. Could you guys give me a few examples of what you look for?

Should I spin my keyhole slot around and see if that edge is on the U layer? Or should I solve what is currently in U.

Thanks for your input!
 

xyzzy

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Just solve what you see in the U layer. It's always faster to look at pieces to decide what to do than to search for pieces, because when you search for pieces, you waste time looking at pieces you don't care about. While you're inserting an edge, slow down and look at the other edges in the U layer so you know which slot you're going to do next.

Oh, but what if there's no other edge in the U layer that should be in the equator? In this case, look at the edge you're going to replace—most of the time it'll be another second-layer edge, so mentally prepare yourself to move on to that slot once you've inserted the current edge.

Alternatively, learn intuitive F2L. Keyhole is a simple and intuitive beginner's method (I came up with a similar idea when I was a beginner because I thought LBL was stupid), but it's hard to get fast with keyhole.
 

Solvador Cubi

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Hi aavlee,

I assembled some 3x3 methods that can be used to solve the cube in under a minute without memorizing of a bunch of algorithms. However, both of these methods still have useful steps and algs that are used for more advanced CFOP.

The intermediate method is called FIXLL and has a 4 Look Last Layer. My goal for it was to use the fewest number of algorithms to memorize instead of the 16 mostly unrelated ones. It uses only 9 main algorithms to complete the last layer in at most 4 steps.

Here's a link to the one-page quick reference guide:
http://solvexio.cf/app/#/FIXLL_OnePage

I hope some of that will help you!
Solvador Cubi
 

aavlee

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Hi aavlee,

I assembled some 3x3 methods that can be used to solve the cube in under a minute without memorizing of a bunch of algorithms. However, both of these methods still have useful steps and algs that are used for more advanced CFOP.

The intermediate method is called FIXLL and has a 4 Look Last Layer. My goal for it was to use the fewest number of algorithms to memorize instead of the 16 mostly unrelated ones. It uses only 9 main algorithms to complete the last layer in at most 4 steps.

Here's a link to the one-page quick reference guide:
http://solvexio.cf/app/#/FIXLL_OnePage

I hope some of that will help you!
Solvador Cubi

Thank you! I have since learned and am continuing to practice my intuitive F2L. I have used a handful of your algs from your FIXLL with what I currently know. My average solves have come down closer to 60-70 seconds. As I continue to practice F2L I should be able to solve under 60s!
 
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Hey all,
I've noticed that people mention being sub-90 and even sub-75 on LBL. How does one do this? My LBL times were around 2 min and I got them to sub-90 with 2-look OLL and PLL. Did I skip something important?
Thanks, Crystalline

EDIT: I mean besides the obvious "practice".
 
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Hey all,
I've noticed that people mention being sub-90 and even sub-75 on LBL. How does one do this? My LBL times were around 2 min and I got them to sub-90 with 2-look OLL and PLL. Did I skip something important?
Thanks, Crystalline
Diffrent methods and look ahead and PRACTICE
 

xyzzy

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Hey all,
I've noticed that people mention being sub-90 and even sub-75 on LBL. How does one do this? My LBL times were around 2 min and I got them to sub-90 with 2-look OLL and PLL. Did I skip something important?
Thanks, Crystalline

EDIT: I mean besides the obvious "practice".

… Practice.

Switching from LBL to basically anything else should improve your F2L times once you're familiar with the new method. There may be an initial transition period where your times are even worse than what you're averaging now, but, well, practice fixes that.

I used to average ~50 seconds with a modified LBL method, where you insert the corners in the correct slot but twisted, then twist them while inserting the F2L edges. I can't really recommend switching to this method (compared to doing intuitive F2L "properly"), but it's definitely better than pure LBL while still being very easy to learn.
 
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… Practice.

Switching from LBL to basically anything else should improve your F2L times once you're familiar with the new method. There may be an initial transition period where your times are even worse than what you're averaging now, but, well, practice fixes that.

I used to average ~50 seconds with a modified LBL method, where you insert the corners in the correct slot but twisted, then twist them while inserting the F2L edges. I can't really recommend switching to this method (compared to doing intuitive F2L "properly"), but it's definitely better than pure LBL while still being very easy to learn.
So basically just grinding solves until the times go down? I was hoping there'd be a specific thing for me to focus on instead of just "repeat until it gets better".
 
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The specific thing to focus on is changing to a better method like Roux, ZZ or CFOP asap and then focus on lookahead and efficiency mainly.
I'm working on CFOP, but progress was flattening out and my times were never great with beginner, so thought there may have been something I missed while learning of everyone else is getting better results.
 

Tabe

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I am certainly not fast by any means (PB: 54-sec), and am still learning F2L, but one thing I did that helped was to practice doing just the cross over and over. I took a cube I didn't like and peeled off all the stickers except those needed for a white cross. So that left all the centers except yellow and then the stickers on both sides of the four white edges. Then I did a bunch of solves using scrambles generated by my regular timer program with "solved" being a completed cross. That helped a lot.
 
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I am certainly not fast by any means (PB: 54-sec), and am still learning F2L, but one thing I did that helped was to practice doing just the cross over and over. I took a cube I didn't like and peeled off all the stickers except those needed for a white cross. So that left all the centers except yellow and then the stickers on both sides of the four white edges. Then I did a bunch of solves using scrambles generated by my regular timer program with "solved" being a completed cross. That helped a lot.
You're 30s faster than me in the same position so don't degrade yourself. :) Thanks for the tip, don't have an old cube but I'll work on my cross and see if that helps any.
 

AlphaSheep

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So basically just grinding solves until the times go down? I was hoping there'd be a specific thing for me to focus on instead of just "repeat until it gets better".
There are specific things you can focus on, but in reality, focusing on them may comes down to practice.
  1. Get used to turning the cube. Try to minimise the effort needed to turn. Push gently rather than force your turning to go as fast as possible. This comes naturally with practice.
  2. Get familiar with every situation so that you minimize the time spent thinking about what to do next. The only way to do this is to do lots and lots of different solves.
I wish I could say there was some other trick that will make you faster, but unfortunately the most effective trick is just lots and lots of practice.
 
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