##### Member
I came across 2 different beginner methods. The only difference is the LL.
Solving the F2L is the same. But the LL is different. The phamplet i got when i bought my Rubiks cube saids to solve the right corner pieces with the same color,not precisely the exact spot then solve the top corners with (Ri Di R D) x 2 or 4. Do you think the Phamplet method is quicker than the beginners method that teaches to permute and oriente?

#### AvGalen

You only describe one method, so I cannot tell you which one is faster.

I can make a guess though, because I used a similar method 20 years ago.

Old method (slower)
1) Edge Orientation
2) Edge Permutation
3) Corner Permutation
4) Corner Orientation (one at a time, using (F D F' D')*2 or something simular)

New method (faster)
1) Edge Orientation
2) Corner Orientation
3) Corner Permutation
4) Edge Permutation

Hope this helps, otherwise you should rephrase your question

#### pjk

Staff member
With a beginners method, such as the one I have described on my page:
http://www.pjkcubed.com/rubiks-cube-beginners-guide.html

You can avg 35 seconds. However, once you get to around 1 minute with it, I'd recommend upgrading to a more efficient method. The whole point is that with pretty much any beginners method, you can get sub-1 easy, but after that, switch to a more efficient method. Good luck.

#### xu234

##### Member
Hey guys I'm new to this forum. Okay I'm trying to learn to do the f2l intuitively. I know how to do it but I'm slow as hell. My times for the f2l are slower than when i do it layer by layer with the beginner way.

With the f2l method:
Cubes Solved: 7
Average: 1:09.03
Fastest Time: 51.52
Slowest Time: 1:33.17
Standard Deviation: 15.59

With the beginner method:
Cubes Solved: 7
Average: 53.75
Fastest Time: 42.56
Slowest Time: 1:09.11
Standard Deviation: 08.30

I heard that with enough practice the f2l will be super fast. So should I just keep practicing it our stick with the old method?

Keep practicing.

#### pjk

Staff member
Practice the Fridrich F2L method more. Guaranteed you will come out quicker in the end.

#### Arakron

##### Member
I went from a 50s to 40s avg less than 2 weeks after I made the switch. It's been almost exactly a month now and I'm pushing 30s.

#### AvGalen

I can do sub 27 on average with keyhole, but when I do intuitive F2L it takes me about 1 minute! I am sure that with practice, I will be sub 25 or even sub 20. Most peoples time go up when they change a method. In the long run, their times go down.

#### Inferno.Fighter.IV

##### Member
I'm also switching and it's only been a few days and my average is going down . So just stick to it! I wasn't sure if it would be faster when I started, I had a lot of doubts.

My old average: 50.28
My new average using the intuitive F2L: 48.44

Ps. Try checking out Erik's F2L video, it has helped me.

#### AvGalen

I will stick with it, but probably not for the competition in Germany next week. And yes, I watched Eriks video. He makes it look easy!

Step 1: Find both pieces of the pair
Step 2: Attach them correctly
Step 3: Insert them in the target slot

I have problems with step 1 and 2.

#### Tomarse

##### Member
i can do it fully intuitively and thanks to erik aswell, but it is much slower in my case :] but i think practice will help ;]

#### xu234

##### Member
Originally posted by AvGalen@Apr 19 2007, 02:51 PM
I will stick with it, but probably not for the competition in Germany next week. And yes, I watched Eriks video. He makes it look easy!

Step 1: Find both pieces of the pair
Step 2: Attach them correctly
Step 3: Insert them in the target slot

I have problems with step 1 and 2.
where do i go to find erik's video?

#### Erik

##### Member
Originally posted by AvGalen@Apr 19 2007, 02:51 PM
I will stick with it, but probably not for the competition in Germany next week. And yes, I watched Eriks video. He makes it look easy!

Step 1: Find both pieces of the pair
Step 2: Attach them correctly
Step 3: Insert them in the target slot

I have problems with step 1 and 2.
It is actualy quite easy Av,
oh, and it might be hard for some people to have faith in the system and realy stop with the system you are doing now especialy for Av cause he has doing keyhole quite a while and has become quite fast with it too! I had also difficulty of going from keyhole to F2L, but after a while my times were the same as with keyhole but with loads of delays so I figured it had to be faster indeed.
Happy F2L-ing!

#### AvGalen

Doing F2L intuitive is really easy. But right now I am using too many moves because I don't recognize cases yet. If pieces are connected, but wrong I just disconnect them with R U2 R' or equivalent moves. Then I need to analyze them again, connect, insert.

My speed so far comes from fast case recognition and look-ahead. I don't have any of this now. When I see pairs, I understand why Fridrich F2L is so fast. I have done a 32 (single, not lucky) when I just found pairs, connected, inserted. This method is really good, but it requires a LOT of practice.

I will start writing down my times and make a day-by-day improvement schedule.

#### thelurch1986

##### Member
Beginner Method Question

Ok so I have been reading on here for a while and just decided to create an account. We have a competition going at my job to see who can be the first one to break sub 45 on a solve, I know that Fridrich is a very quick method but since its a competition of not only how fast to solve the cube but also how fast we can get sub 45, is there another method that can get me sub 45 in shorter time? Even if it might not be able to ever hit sub 20?

I tried Petrus (averaged roughly 2 min 30 sec), and I tried basic LBL methods including the one in the book that comes with the cube and I averaged roughly 3 minutes. Have been trying these for a few weeks and still cant get an average of under 2 minutes!

Thanks for any help.

#### AvGalen

to get sub 45 as quickly as possible, I would recommend a layer-by-layer method with a 4 alg last layer. It is probably faster to learn few algs, but perform them fast then it is to learn many algs and perform them slower.

Also, because your challenge is to do it on 1 solve, a 4 alg last layer will probably mean a 4 look last layer (or even 1 extra lucky skip) if you try it enough.

Using keyhole for the middle layer MIGHT be a good idea because it reduces the amount of moves without adding algorithms.

My niece did a sub 45 solve after 2 weeks with that system

#### Sebastien

I'd say learn Fridrich with F2L and 4-look-LL and then practise, practise, practise...

#### thelurch1986

##### Member
Ok cool, the more I was thinking about it, I really like how Petrus method can be done quick with R and U moves (after the 2x2x3 block) and then 2OLL/2PLL the top layer to reach sub 45?

With practice is it unrealistic to expect these times:

2x2x2 Sub 5 seconds
2x2x3 Sub 5 seconds
Finish F2L Sub 10 seconds
Finish LL Sub 15 seconds

That makes a total of 45 seconds... or am I thinking too much here.

Edit: Just remembered Petrus solves the top cross so it's actually a 1OLL/2PLL

Last edited:

#### JohnnyA

##### Member
Petrus will be more difficult than Fridrich to get sub-45. With LBL/F2L, I got to 45 in about 2-3 weeks of practise.

#### thelurch1986

##### Member
Im averaging 1 minute 30 seconds using cross then drop corners to solve first layer, then R U R U R U' R' U' R' and R' U' R' U' R' U R U R to drop middle layers, and looking at printed pages of OLL/PLL to solve the LL. Is this a solve that the time could be dropped to the sub 45? I am at a toss up between this method and the keyhole (the keyhole is a little crazy looking when I try to swing all the layers around to get the keyhole is the correct position) obviously that would just need practice.

I believe you are right on the Petrus being difficult, I cant sub 2 minutes with that no matter how hard I try or how easy steps are on luckier solves.