[Help Thread] Roux Discussion and Help

DeeDubb said:
When you are learning L6E, I recommend NOT using algs. Just play with the cube and try to figure it out. Once you understand how L6E works, you won't need algs, because you'll figure out the most efficient ways on your own. After you are comfortable, you might add algs for some nasty cases, but for the most part, you just don't need them.
Click to expand...
Random question, and there's probably many guides on this already, but how do you flip 2 edges in L6E?
I've always just set them up on the U layer adjacent to each other and do M' U M U2 M' U M, which is an OLL, but is there a better way?
 
I use algs for all the EO cases, but just the setup alg for the most common "3 on top 1 on bottom" case. Therefore I'm using cycling algorithmically.

guysensei1: depends on the position of the wrong edges:
DF+DB = M' U M' U' + [3/1b]
DF+UB = M' U M U + [3/1a]
DB+UF = M' U M' U + [3/1b]
UB+UR = M' U' M' U2 + [3/1a]
UF+UB = M' U' M U + [3/1a]

Where [3/1a] means wrong edges are UL/UF/UR/DF, and I solve with with M' U* M* (four different algs, I chose whichever helps Step 4b), and [3/1b] means the y2-mirrored case: wrong edges are UL/UB/UR/DB, solve with M U* M*.
 
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guysensei1 said:
Random question, and there's probably many guides on this already, but how do you flip 2 edges in L6E?
I've always just set them up on the U layer adjacent to each other and do M' U M U2 M' U M, which is an OLL, but is there a better way?
Click to expand...
M' U' M' U2 M' U' M' / M' U M' U2 M' U M'
For two opposite edges, some people use R U R' U' M' U R U' r', but I (and probably some others) use M' U M U' M' U' M' / M' U' M U M' U' M', which is just cycling.
If they are both in the D layer, I would do M U/U' M to cycle to the easy EO case.
If one is in U and one in D, there are two case: DF and UB, do M' U/U' M. For UF and DB, M U/U' M'.
 
Okay. LSE is now officially fooling me.

I got this:
D2 U2 L' F2 D2 R B2 U2 R F' U' B R F' R' F2 L B2 D

y' x'
U R' F R y r2 B M' r B' // FB (9)
r U R U' r' U' R' U2 R' U' r2 R U R // SB (14) <- didn't notice, but F2L...
U F (R U R' U')2 F' // CMLL (11) <- didn't know, but OLL...
Full LSE is a U-PLL?! Really?!

I was so confused I tried to solve it with <M,U>, mixed up, and got "only" a 13.52... :fp:

When did this solve decided to be a Fridrich rather than a Roux?!
 
Renslay said:
Okay. LSE is now officially fooling me.

I got this:
D2 U2 L' F2 D2 R B2 U2 R F' U' B R F' R' F2 L B2 D

y' x'
U R' F R y r2 B M' r B' // FB (9)
r U R U' r' U' R' U2 R' U' r2 R U R // SB (14) <- didn't notice, but F2L...
U F (R U R' U')2 F' // CMLL (11) <- didn't know, but OLL...
Full LSE is a U-PLL?! Really?!

I was so confused I tried to solve it with <M,U>, mixed up, and got "only" a 13.52... :fp:

When did this solve decided to be a Fridrich rather than a Roux?!
Click to expand...

More like FreeFOP.

Haha, nice solve.
 
Renslay said:
When did this solve decided to be a Fridrich rather than a Roux?!
Click to expand...
idk
also [U'] M2 U M U2 M' U M2. It's setup to M U2 M' U2 using M2 U. So instead of solving ULUR, you simply setup to an EP case, permute edges and undo the setup. Switch M for M' and M' for M to do the same U perm from a y2 away, and switch U for U' to do the other U perm. Or do both.
 
TDM said:
idk
also [U'] M2 U M U2 M' U M2. It's setup to M U2 M' U2 using M2 U. So instead of solving ULUR, you simply setup to an EP case, permute edges and undo the setup. Switch M for M' and M' for M to do the same U perm from a y2 away, and switch U for U' to do the other U perm. Or do both.
Click to expand...

I know, and as a PLL, I do it in this way. But I was so confused I tried to solve it with in a regular Roux way, and even messed it up.
If I was a bit calmer, I would either use that, or (U) R2 U' R' U' R U R U R U' R (U2).
 
Renslay said:
Because of fingertricks. R2 U' (...) is one of my fastest PLLs. Moreover, the inverse direction is so slow for me, I use the <M,U> version for that rather than the <R,U> version.
Click to expand...
Oh ok. I don't use RU U perms for 2H, so I don't really know much about fingertricking them; I can't fingertrick any of them well, so for me they're all bad.
 
PB
14.97 ao100

Finally sub 15 :)
Generated By csTimer on 2014-7-17
avg of 100: 14.97

Time List:
1. 13.90 L F' D2 U F B2 L2 B' F2 R' B2 D' R2 F2 U' L2 D' B' U' L' U2 B2 D' L' R
2. 14.66 B' R' U2 L D U2 F' U D2 B2 L F B R2 U2 R' U2 D L2 B2 L2 F2 D B' D2
3. 13.91 L U D L2 U2 F' D U' R' B' F2 D B2 R B2 U2 F' R' U R2 U2 L2 U F L2
4. 12.83 F' D' L2 R2 B2 R U2 R2 F R L D U2 L' R2 D L' F' R L2 B F' U R' L
5. 13.71 L' B2 D L B2 D2 U2 R2 F' R2 D2 U L R F B2 U' D2 B R B L' D' L R
6. 13.47 D B' D F' R' L' F L2 B F' D' L2 B' F2 R' D B R' L D2 F L2 U2 D2 L
7. 17.28 B2 D B U B L U2 L R' U' D' F R U' B' F' L' B2 L2 R2 U' R2 F U2 F'
8. 14.65 L' D' B' U' R U' L2 R' D B R2 U L R2 F' R L F2 D F2 R L B' U2 F2
9. (17.55) L2 B' D B2 U F U2 F2 B D2 B R L' U B2 R2 U' D2 B2 L F2 D F2 D B'
10. 14.72 F U2 B2 U2 L D U' B R' L F2 L F R L2 U2 B D' U' R' L B2 D' F' B2
11. 15.38 R2 B2 D2 U' F' B' D2 R2 D R2 B2 L2 D' B U2 R L2 U R L' F R U' F B'
12. 17.06 L' D2 R F2 R2 U2 D2 F' U' L R U' B R L2 B R2 B' D2 R B' F2 L' F2 U2
13. 12.91 R' U' B2 U R F' D2 F2 B' U B2 F2 L' U R' D L U2 F2 R U2 L D' B2 L'
14. 14.31 U' R2 L2 F' R F' D' U F2 D U' F L2 R' F R2 B' U' F' L D2 R U' L2 R2
15. 14.18 U' R B' L' B' F2 L2 R2 B2 L' F U2 R U2 R' F U D2 F L B' L F B2 D2
16. 16.38 L F2 L D' L U2 R' D F U2 L R D F U L2 B' L F B' U' F' D2 R D'
17. 12.84 D2 R' U' B D U' F' D' F' L U2 B2 U2 D' B' D2 L2 R U2 B R U' D F L
18. 13.65 B F' L2 U L' U F2 U L2 B F2 L2 R2 U' R' B2 L F' R2 F U' L F2 U2 B2
19. 13.40 B2 F2 L' B' D2 L' B L' F' R' F B' R2 U2 B F' L2 B' U L' R' U D F' L2
20. 16.84 R U B L2 D R2 B U2 F2 B2 L2 R' U' D F' U2 B2 U2 D' F2 D' L F' D' L
21. 16.80 U2 D F D R2 U2 L' B' R2 F U' L F' U' B D B F' L2 U' D2 B F2 L2 B
22. 17.36 F2 L2 R2 D2 U2 L D' F2 U' D' F R2 U D L2 B2 D U L U' R' D' F' R2 F'
23. 15.71 B U D2 L' U' B2 U' B F U2 R U2 D' B' R L D2 L U F2 B' L D R' D'
24. 13.77 U D R D2 U2 F L2 B U2 D F B U B F2 R2 U F U L' B U' L U' R'
25. (11.34) U2 B2 F2 D2 L' D2 R' B' F' U2 F R' D U L' D' U2 R D R' L D L' U' R2
26. 14.58 L D B2 R2 F' L2 B2 F2 R' B D' L2 B D R2 B F2 L' F' R2 F D' R' F2 B'
27. 14.27 L2 D2 B' R2 D' U L B F2 L U2 R2 L D' R2 U2 L R' F B' D R2 B' F' R
28. 17.41 L2 U D F B' R' F2 B D2 L' B2 F2 U2 L' U B2 U2 D2 L2 R2 F2 U2 R F2 R2
29. 17.28 L' F2 B' U' L' B F D' F2 U' L2 U' B' L2 R' U' B2 L F U L F' L' R' U'
30. 17.40 L U' R' F R D2 L2 F D' B U2 D R' B' U2 B2 D F B L' B2 F' R2 D F2
31. 15.46 D U L2 B F2 U R D2 B2 F2 L D' F2 R' B' L2 U2 D F2 D2 R' D L' F L
32. 14.56 L' B2 D2 U F2 B2 R' L2 D' R2 U2 F' R F' U2 B' F D' L R D L2 B' U2 F'
33. 13.78 D2 F' R B F2 R2 B' R2 D2 U F B2 U B L' F' L F R' D F2 R2 U' L' D'
34. 14.97 D2 L2 B2 F' D U' L' R B2 R F' R D U2 B L' B' R2 D' L F2 R F2 R2 F2
35. 16.93 U' F2 L' D' R F2 U' L' F2 R2 U2 B2 F U L2 F R2 F D' L' B L' B2 F2 U'
36. 14.34 B L' R F U' R' U2 D' L2 U B' D R' F2 B L2 D2 U' L' B D U L B F
37. 16.84 F R' F2 U2 D R2 F2 R' B D' U2 L' B' U' L' R F2 D' U2 F D2 U' R' D L'
38. 13.27 F' D F' D L U' F' D' F2 D2 L' F2 B2 R' D' B R2 U' L U F L F2 U B2
39. 13.44 F2 D B2 F L2 B D2 F' B' L U L D R B D' B L B2 F2 R L U' D2 R'
40. 13.33 F R2 U' L' U' D2 F U2 F2 L D' B' U' B' R D2 B' F' R' U2 B2 U' L2 F2 U2
41. 16.70 D U' F' U2 D2 F D L2 D2 F2 L2 B' D2 R' U2 B2 D' L2 F' B' L2 R' B R' B'
42. 16.75 F2 D2 L R2 F D2 U' B2 D' F2 L F2 L D' U' L B L' D' U' F' D2 F' R2 F'
43. 14.91 R' B U2 L R U' R2 B U D' L' U' D' L2 D B2 R' L B' U' L' U L2 D2 R2
44. 14.56 F' L D F' B' R' B L2 B' U B' R D R B' R2 L2 F' L' R2 B' D2 U' L' R'
45. 15.68 R' L' F U D' R' D B' D' B2 F2 L2 F2 U L D' U' R' B U2 B D2 F B U'
46. 15.13 F D' B2 F' D2 U R2 D2 U' R' F' B2 D' F' L' F R B' D2 F2 B' D B2 R L2
47. 14.88 B D' F U2 D' B2 U F' R2 U2 B U2 F' U B2 L' U L F L2 R2 U2 R B' R2
48. 14.47 R2 B2 R2 D B' D R B' L2 F2 U2 R2 B L D2 R2 F2 R' D L R2 F2 D' B F2
49. 16.18 R' U' B2 R' L U' F L F L2 D' L' B' R' B U' B' R' L' F2 D F2 D B2 F'
50. 14.88 F' L R U L U R F2 U R2 U' R F' B2 U R D F' R L2 F2 R2 U F' U'
51. (12.31) F2 D' F' B2 L B L' D2 L R D' U2 F2 B' U D2 F B2 D L2 R' D2 B' U2 B2
52. 15.05 B R B' L' R U2 B2 F2 D' F D2 U' L' B L' F' D' U F2 U D L' D R2 D'
53. 15.22 R2 U B2 R F2 U2 B' L' U2 R2 U2 F2 B U2 L' F2 B R2 U' D2 F U' D' F' D'
54. 16.55 U D L B L D' B' L2 D2 F2 D B U R2 L2 F D' F2 L B D U F2 D L'
55. 13.25 L2 R' F2 R' U' R2 L F2 L B F' R2 L U' F B U L B F' R2 U' B R F'
56. 13.84 U R2 B U2 B' F2 D' U' F2 R' D2 R2 D2 R U R' U' B' R2 U' R2 F U' F' U
57. 16.31 R2 B' F' L2 F' D2 U F U2 F' B' U F2 U F2 B' D2 R L F R2 D' R2 D2 U
58. 14.25 L2 D2 R B2 L2 D L2 F R2 B D2 L R' B' F' D F2 L F R' U' B2 D' F U
59. (12.63) D' L' U R' D' R' U' D R F B2 U' B' F R' U L' R' F R U L2 F2 D R'
60. (17.41) D2 F' D' L2 B2 F2 D F' D U2 F' U' F R2 U' B2 F' L D' U2 L2 U' B2 L2 B'
61. 14.83 U' B R D2 B F' D2 F2 B U F U2 L2 U2 R2 F L2 R D' U' R U' R' B' U2
62. 15.44 D' U B2 D F L' F U' D' L2 D' U2 B D B2 D' B L' F' B' D L B2 R2 F
63. 16.69 D2 F L2 R2 D2 F' B2 L D2 R D' L' D L' F U' R' L B L R D U R2 B'
64. 14.58 R' F U D L F2 D L2 B2 L2 D2 U B' F L' D2 R' U' L2 F B R2 L2 B' F'
65. 14.90 U2 L' F B' U' L2 F D' L2 R2 B U B R' D B' L R2 U2 F R U' R' L2 B2
66. 15.83 L2 F R' D' F2 L' B U' D' B' F2 R2 D R2 U' B F D2 F' D' B2 F2 R' U B'
67. 16.22 U2 L D2 U L2 U' D' L2 B' F2 D' B' F R U2 B2 F2 D' R D' L' R D' U2 L'
68. 12.90 U R L' D' B2 R2 F' U2 B2 R2 U L' D2 L' D F' D2 B' D' L2 B' U2 R' F' R
69. 14.40 R' U B2 U R2 U' R2 F' D2 F' U D' L2 F' U2 D R F L U R2 L B F2 R'
70. 12.97 R D2 U2 F L' D' L B' U R U' L2 R2 B2 L2 R F R2 U F D' R2 F' B' R'
71. 14.77 F2 B D2 L U' L2 U R2 B R B' F2 L' D' R' U' L2 U' B D2 L2 B' L2 F D
72. 13.93 U2 D2 R U2 L2 U2 R F R' B' D U2 R2 D U F2 U' B' R2 D' B' R2 L2 U L2
73. (11.58) F D' B2 U' F' L2 B U L2 U' L R' B' U2 D B' D2 B2 R U2 L F2 B2 L' R
74. (17.75) F2 U2 D2 F2 D2 F2 L B' R D' B2 U R' F U2 D' R2 B L U2 L2 R' U B2 U
75. 17.02 R B U' D2 F' R' D U' B2 F D' L U D F' R' U2 B D' B L' U L F' R
76. 15.18 F2 B D' B U R' U2 D F' L B' D' L B2 F2 L' D2 F2 D2 U F B2 L R2 B2
77. 15.40 U' R2 F' L2 U2 D B F' L2 R' D2 U' F R U2 F U2 D2 B L' D L2 R2 U2 L
78. 14.11 L U' F2 R' L F D U F2 D' B2 R' U2 L2 R D2 R U D' R' D' B F' U' R
79. 16.06 U2 F2 U' R' U R U' F' R' L2 U' R' U2 R2 L2 D F L' F' L2 B U' B2 F2 D'
80. 17.03 U2 R2 L' U2 D2 L' U B2 U B' F2 D U R2 F2 B U' B R2 D' B' R U' B2 R2
81. 13.43 L F2 R L2 B' U2 L' D2 L B2 F2 L2 U' D2 B U R' L D2 F U' D L2 F L
82. 16.56 U' F2 B' R' D' R' F' U' D F2 B L2 R B2 F' U' R' D2 R2 L B2 L2 R B D2
83. 13.00 D' B2 R2 B2 R2 F' D' U' L U L2 F B R' L D2 R' D F2 U2 L F' R2 B R
84. 14.27 U2 R2 U' R L2 U' L B2 L2 B2 R2 D' U' B2 L2 R2 U2 R U2 L' U2 B U B2 F
85. (17.58) L' U2 D2 F2 R2 U L2 D U R2 U' D F' L2 D U2 B2 R D2 F B2 D U B2 F
86. 16.09 L F' R L' B' F L D L' B' F' L2 D L D F' D L D L' R2 U' L' U2 F2
87. 15.03 D2 F' L' B' R B' L' U D' L U R D R' B' L U2 B F D' L F D2 U' B2
88. 15.55 U2 R B2 D2 R' F2 L' U' D' F2 L' D' B D' R' L F2 R U' R U D L' R' U
89. 16.11 B2 F2 R' U2 L2 F' L2 R2 F2 U2 B U R F' B2 D' R2 B' D2 F2 R' F2 B2 U' B2
90. 14.52 L' U2 R' B2 F' U2 R L F U F2 B' U F2 R2 U F2 B2 D' B2 R' F' D U2 R
91. 13.65 U2 B U2 L2 D2 U' B F2 L2 F U B2 R2 L D' B' F2 L' F2 B' D L' U' F2 L
92. (18.83) B L D2 R D U L R2 F D' R' L2 U' B' F' R2 F2 L F' R' U2 R' F2 R U2
93. 14.75 B2 D2 R' D L' R2 F R' U2 D2 F R L' U2 R' U B' F' D2 F B' D' L D2 U2
94. 14.21 L F' L U' L' U B2 D L' D2 R U B2 D' F2 L U' B U2 F2 D2 F2 R L B2
95. 13.63 B R' F2 D L2 D' U2 B F R F' B2 D2 F' D B2 U' D' F D' R D' R' L U'
96. 15.81 R' D' R' D B' L2 U' B' R2 D U' B2 U' L' D2 R' U' F' U2 F B' U2 B2 L2 U'
97. 13.84 L2 D2 U R L B2 D U' R' B' D F D R' U B D' B2 L2 D2 B' L' R2 U2 B
98. 14.19 F U2 L2 R2 D' R D B' D R2 L D F' R2 F B' L2 B' L2 R2 D U B L' D2
99. (12.59) R U F' L2 D2 F L B2 F U' D2 L' D2 R2 D B R' L B L U' B2 D R F'
100. 14.66 U' D' B' R2 F R' U D L' U2 B2 R B2 L U B' R2 L2 F' L D2 L F D L2

11s are always nice
 
Last edited:
PJKCuber said:
What does Waffo mean by cycling for EO? I used the mini algs and no matter how many times I do them, I don't get the EO done.
Click to expand...

You should really start looking into this sort of thing more thoroughly before asking for help, because you ask lots of simple little questions that most people can figure out easily on their own.

With that being said, cycling for EO consists of using the "mini algs" to reduce your EO to 3 bad edges on the U layer, and 1 bad edge on the D layer, from there, you can do either M' U M' or M U M depending on the position of the bad D layer edge.
 
PJKCuber said:
What does Waffo mean by cycling for EO? I used the mini algs and no matter how many times I do them, I don't get the EO done.
Click to expand...
Have you read the explanation from Gilles Roux (Step 4b) maybe it explains it better to you.

Cycling means that you have to apply the (mini) alg [M,U] and if the EO isn't done you have AUF and do it again (with another alg) until the EO is done.
 
PJKCuber said:
What does Waffo mean by cycling for EO? I used the mini algs and no matter how many times I do them, I don't get the EO done.
Click to expand...

I agree with what the others said. When I learned EO for Roux, I observed how certain mini algs (sometimes modified to suit my style) affected each EO case. So for example, if you get a 2 flip (UL and UB) you can say to yourself, "Oh, well I just have to do [insert preferred alg here] then I'll be left with the base case (4 flip with one on D) then I do [insert preferred alg here] and I'm done.

Obviously, through practice it becomes almost algorithmic since actually going through this thought process would be painstakingly slow.
 
CheesecakeCuber said:
I agree with what the others said. When I learned EO for Roux, I observed how certain mini algs (sometimes modified to suit my style) affected each EO case. So for example, if you get a 2 flip (UL and UB) you can say to yourself, "Oh, well I just have to do [insert preferred alg here] then I'll be left with the base case (4 flip with one on D) then I do [insert preferred alg here] and I'm done.

Obviously, through practice it becomes almost algorithmic since actually going through this thought process would be painstakingly slow.
Click to expand...

Completely agree.
 
If you mean do EO right at the beginning of the solve, it's been proposed to death, but the eventual conclusion is that it's not a very good method, since you have to plan out EO at the beginning instead of planning out the first block, which means that you have to build your first block unplanned, which can slow you down. Additionally, you lose M slice pairing and F moves, both of which are extremely useful in Roux.
 
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