[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

aznanimedude said:
and because that way you're more focused on just one side at a time, i think personally that's easier tbh.

also as for COLL "guide":

way i learned recognition was from JMBaum site: http://jmbaum.110mb.com/coll.htm. read at least the description to understand the recognition for that. then you can use the algs on his site, or you can go to kungfoomanchu and they have a printable sheet you can use.

also good is the place mdipalma linked at boca, although boca is liable to random downtimes (infrequent though) so if you wanna use it, just make sure you pick out algs and have them in a document or something just in case.

boca is also good if you are thinking of ZBLL/ZZLL because they also have a pretty good database of algorithms, and i like the images they use for the cases, kinda like more "3-d" view more than in speedsolving which is like from the top.

but really as UVA is a proof, you don't really "need" COLL or even ZZLL because OCLL+PLL is just as fast
Click to expand...
Okay then, but I would prefer doing ZZLL in the end since the single step OLL+PLL is appealing to me.
 
Zelda said:
Okay then, but I would prefer doing ZZLL in the end since the single step OLL+PLL is appealing to me.
Click to expand...

then just do ZBLL, ZZLL requires an extra phasing step
if you want truly single step, that's ZZ-a, regular f2l without any extra thinking then straight ZBLL
 
Your enthusiasm is admirable, but I don't think ZZ-a/b should be your primary objective when you average >5 minutes.

I suggest you OCLL it up.
 
What is the difference between OCLL and COLL? Since my idea was to use COLL for recognising the ZZLL cases, then learn full ZZLL from there.
 
Again, if you don't know the difference between OCLL and COLL, I don't think you're ready for ZZ-a/b.

OCLL is orienting the corners of the last layer.
COLL is orienting and permuting the corners of the last layer.
 
mDiPalma said:
Again, if you don't know the difference between OCLL and COLL, I don't think you're ready for ZZ-a/b.

OCLL is orienting the corners of the last layer.
COLL is orienting and permuting the corners of the last layer.
Click to expand...
Okay then, thanks but I'm still going to do COLL>ZZLL.
 
Is ZZ F2L really any faster than regular F2L? I have tried it, and it seemed to take longer than regular F2L. You can do regular F2L with L, R, and U moves with the occasional F or D. I know you get the cross on top, but with OLL you get the whole top side black anyway. Then do PLL. With the cross you have less and a little shorter OLL algs, but you have to get the EO line also. If you do ZBLL, (I don't understand how you would memorize them all anyway) is the recognition time high enough that you might as well just do OLL and PLL?
 
elrog said:
Is ZZ F2L really any faster than regular F2L? I have tried it, and it seemed to take longer than regular F2L. You can do regular F2L with L, R, and U moves with the occasional F or D. I know you get the cross on top, but with OLL you get the whole top side black anyway. Then do PLL. With the cross you have less and a little shorter OLL algs, but you have to get the EO line also. If you do ZBLL, (I don't understand how you would memorize them all anyway) is the recognition time high enough that you might as well just do OLL and PLL?
Click to expand...
With enough practice the EOLine becomes really fast, just as fast as the cfop cross.

The ZZ F2L IMO is much faster than regular F2L... No cube rotations at all, just find 2 pieces with no top color on them, join them together, place them in their spot with another piece. You just do intuitive block building with with R U L moves, no need to rotate the cube at all - cube rotations not only take time but they also slow you down, with zz you do everything from one angle which also allows you to know your color scheme like the back of your hand, which means better look-ahead.

ZZ f2l with the CFOP f2l are completely different, CFOP is placing pairs into cross slots, ZZ is block building which is very different - you have much more freedom and you don't have to move cross pieces back and forth from their place in order to solve the first 2 layers.

The cross on top in the end is a small bonus for using the ZZ method, I don't even look at it as one of the great advantages of this method. It's nice because as you said, easier OLL algs (and you only gotta learn 7 of them) and also there is a 1/27 chance for OLL skip instead of the CFOP 1/216.
 
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omer said:
The cross on top in the end is a small bonus for using the ZZ method, I don't even look at it as one of the great advantages of this method. It's nice because as you said, easier OLL algs (and you only gotta learn 7 of them) and also there is a 1/27 chance for OLL skip instead of the CFOP 1/216.
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, is there a link to the 7 OLL algorithms? And how many PLL's are left over then?
 
elrog said:
Is ZZ F2L really any faster than regular F2L? I have tried it, and it seemed to take longer than regular F2L. You can do regular F2L with L, R, and U moves with the occasional F or D. I know you get the cross on top, but with OLL you get the whole top side black anyway. Then do PLL. With the cross you have less and a little shorter OLL algs, but you have to get the EO line also. If you do ZBLL, (I don't understand how you would memorize them all anyway) is the recognition time high enough that you might as well just do OLL and PLL?
Click to expand...

You're forgetting about cube rotations, which need to happen if you're going to do normal F2L with only RUL.
 
uvafan said:
You're forgetting about cube rotations, which need to happen if you're going to do normal F2L with only RUL.
Click to expand...

I did not forget them. You don't have to rotate the cube. you only have to preform an occasional F or B move for the sledgehammer. The only cube rotations I do are for certain perms such as the G-perm and while making the cross.
 
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Zelda said:
Thanks, is there some sort of tip on how to do the last slot, since It takes me about 40 seconds to do the last slot, but only about 10~15 to do to the first 3.
Click to expand...
Just use your intuition, if it takes you too many move just look the algorithm up or ask here about a specific case you need help with.
After some practice you'll notice inserting pieces doesn't even take any thinking at all, you'll do it automatically with your hands and fast while your head will think about what to do next.
 
The problem is my intuition takes forever, sometimes I don't get it at all. I usually end up with the slots made, but then the last edge and corner are next to each other, but the corner is wrong, then trying to get the corner right, I mess up the rest.
 
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