[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

[aznanimedude]

i think it's 1/27

 

[Zelda]

Well the PLL skips is 1/12 IIRC, OLL, not really sure. Onward to memorizing ZZLL!

 

[omer]

i think it's 1/27

that would mean ll skip once in only about 2000 solves... wow

 

[aznanimedude]

cherish them then

 

[uvafan]

Well the PLL skips is 1/12 IIRC, OLL, not really sure. Onward to memorizing ZZLL!

No, it's 1/27 for OCLL and 1/72 for PLL. And you realize ZZLL is 160something algorithms, right?

 

[Zelda]

that would mean ll skip once in only about 2000 solves... wow

Wait, how does that work? Shouldn't it be 1 skip per 27 solves? Or am I just missing some math stuff? Also, how long does it take to memorize full ZZLL?

No, it's 1/27 for OCLL and 1/72 for PLL. And you realize ZZLL is 160something algorithms, right?

And yes, I know it's 167 algorithms, but I have time, and alot of them seem really similar. However you only need 80 of them at minimum, and just have to do the inverses and mirrors from them.

 

[uvafan]

Wait, how does that work? Shouldn't it be 1 skip per 27 solves? Or am I just missing some math stuff? Also, how long does it take to memorize full ZZLL?

He's talking about full ll skip.

 

[Zelda]

Oh, okay, then that makes sense. So rare o.O, how long does it take to memorize ZZLL though? (80 Algs)

 

[uvafan]

Oh, okay, then that makes sense. So rare o.O, how long does it take to memorize ZZLL though? (80 Algs)

Idk, depends on the person. I would never be able to learn it cuz i'm uber-lazy.

 

[Zelda]

Hmm, okay, well time to start. I have 1 down so far.

 

[SAICubed]

Hmm, okay, well time to start. I have 1 down so far.

Good luck!

 

[MWilson]

Hmm, okay, well time to start. I have 1 down so far.

Make sure you're identifying something unique visually about the case your doing, and associate the beginning of the algorithm with that. With these large scale sets, it's not the learning that is the issue, it's the recognition, recall, and maintenance.

 

[aznanimedude]

Zelda, tip is
learn COLL first
otherwise recognition is gonna be INSANE.

ZZLL and ZBLL both start by recognizing the COLL case, then the edge permutation case

 

[Zelda]

Oh, okay, so is there a good COLL guide somewhere? Since I have EO+Line down, and am practicing both that and F2L (trouble with last slot usually :C I can't seem to be able to get the last edge corner pair set up.)

 

[Xyphos]

Hey guys what would be your solution for this scramble? I find that my solution for F2L is a bit long but I have no idea how to improve it.

U' B' D' R' D' F2 D U L2 U2 F B2 D F R U2 D' F B L R B U2 L' R2

z2 U' D F L' U B//EO-Line                      |7 moves

U R U' R' U R U' L' //Block                 |8 moves
U R U'R'U R'U2 R L'U L //Pair               |11 moves
R'U'R'U2 R2 //Block                         |5 moves
U'R U R'U R U'R' //Pair                     |8 moves

U R U D' R U R' D R2 U' R' U' R2 U2' R //COLL      |15 moves
M2 U' M2 U2 M2 U'M2 U //EPLL                       |8 moves 
Total  62 moves

 

[Pyjam]

The way you complete the first block is horrible : 11 moves !

After your first 221 block :
z2 U' D F L' U B
U R U' R' U R U' L'
U2 R U' R' U' L' U' L [8 moves]
L R U' R U L' U2 R
U2 R U' R' U2 R U' R' [38 HTM + PLL A = 48 HTM]

R is a random move to unstuck the two pieces of the last pair.

OR :

After your EOL :
z2 U' D F L' U B [6 moves]
U' L' U L' U' L [6+6 = 12]
U' R' U2 R2 L U' L' [13+7 = 19]
U R U R' U' R [19+6 = 25]
U R2 U R' U R U2' R2' [25+8 = 33]
U2 R2 D' R U2' R' D R U2' R [33+10 = 43]

 

[mDiPalma]

you don't have to solve block-pair-block-pair.
you can solve an entire block at once with a 1x1x3.

for example, after your eoline:
U2 L U' L U2 L' U L U2 L2
R U2 R2 U2 R U' R' U R2 U R2
y' F l U F2 U' x R' F2 L F L2 U2 L U2
=41

 

[Xyphos]

Thanks for the solutions guys.

The way you complete the first block is horrible : 11 moves !

that's what I'll immediately do on a speedsolve.

After your first 221 block :
z2 U' D F L' U B
U R U' R' U R U' L'
U2 R U' R' U' L' U' L [8 moves]

Oh wow I seriously didn't see that 3 move insert :fp thanks !
@mDiPalma wow really nice solution you got there.I just went on with block,pair,block,pair cause it requires less thinking. Is that what you'll usually do on a speedsolve ?if so damn you have some serious blockbuilding skillz.

 

[uvafan]

Thanks for the solutions guys.

that's what I'll immediately do on a speedsolve.

Oh wow I seriously didn't see that 3 move insert :fp thanks !
@mDiPalma wow really nice solution you got there.I just went on with block,pair,block,pair cause it requires less thinking. Is that what you'll usually do on a speedsolve ?if so damn you have some serious blockbuilding skillz.

You mean block block pair pair, and it doesn't require less thinking... I always do each (full) block separately during speedsolves because it is more ergonomic and more efficient.

 

[aznanimedude]

and because that way you're more focused on just one side at a time, i think personally that's easier tbh.

also as for COLL "guide":

way i learned recognition was from JMBaum site: http://jmbaum.110mb.com/coll.htm. read at least the description to understand the recognition for that. then you can use the algs on his site, or you can go to kungfoomanchu and they have a printable sheet you can use.

also good is the place mdipalma linked at boca, although boca is liable to random downtimes (infrequent though) so if you wanna use it, just make sure you pick out algs and have them in a document or something just in case.

boca is also good if you are thinking of ZBLL/ZZLL because they also have a pretty good database of algorithms, and i like the images they use for the cases, kinda like more "3-d" view more than in speedsolving which is like from the top.

but really as UVA is a proof, you don't really "need" COLL or even ZZLL because OCLL+PLL is just as fast