[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[guusrs]

Hi

Congratz to Tomoaki Okayama who achieved a Japanese Record for Fewest Moves in 28 moves.
Last weekend at Cube Camp Kanazawa 2011
Do you have the scramble for us Tomoaki?

Gus

 

[StachuK1992]

I'm planning on creating a "into to FMC" tutorial of sorts.
Please list out the things which you think would be necessary to cover.

Right now:
inverse scrambles
taking advantage of having three cubes
insertions & cancelling
commutators
go over methods & HTM counting
using your time well.

What else?

 

[Brest]

I'm planning on creating a "into to FMC" tutorial of sorts.
Please list out the things which you think would be necessary to cover.

Right now:
inverse scrambles
taking advantage of having three cubes
insertions & cancelling
commutators
go over methods & HTM counting
using your time well.

What else?

1st things that came to mind:
pseudo blocks
premoves

-how they can relate to each other & how you can find premoves with the inverse scramble.

 

[Cubenovice]

I'm planning on creating a "into to FMC" tutorial of sorts.

Damn you Stachu for stealing my thunder! ;-)
I was thinking about doing someting along the same lines (but targeted to the FMC noobs that use CFOP as their main methods)
Good thing I spend todays writing session on HTA for FMC...

Anyway: any FMC tutorial must link to AVG thread http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?1566-Fewest-Moves-Tips-and-Techniques.

Some things to add:
- Use of mirrors / inverses. Both Brest and I wrote something about it recently.
Always explore various insertions for the last CE pair at the F2L-1 stage. Then then spam the LL with multiple algs and angles.
Gettin lucky (especuially when hunting for it) is not a crime.

- Heise: Heise's (pages on) the last 2 steps are assum. Must be mentioned.

- Irontwigs sub step "average HTM" for going sub 30

 

[irontwig]

Hi

Congratz to Tomoaki Okayama who achieved a Japanese Record for Fewest Moves in 28 moves.
Last weekend at Cube Camp Kanazawa 2011
Do you have the scramble for us Tomoaki?

Gus

Congrats, Okayama! I too hope to get a sub-30 in september.

Stachu: Learning LL algs can be useful; especially stuff like R U R2 F R F2 U F U2 or B' R' U R B L U' L' because they solve edge cases they you can't you efficiently with (OLL) algs thay you actually use for speed.

 

[guusrs]

I'm planning on creating a "into to FMC" tutorial of sorts.
Please list out the things which you think would be necessary to cover.

Right now:
inverse scrambles
taking advantage of having three cubes
insertions & cancelling
commutators
go over methods & HTM counting
using your time well.

What else?

NISS of course!

 

[StachuK1992]

I have to familiarize myself with NISS still then.
Looks like I have something to look forward to this afternoon.

 

[okayama]

Hi

Congratz to Tomoaki Okayama who achieved a Japanese Record for Fewest Moves in 28 moves.
Last weekend at Cube Camp Kanazawa 2011
Do you have the scramble for us Tomoaki?

Gus

Congrats, Okayama! I too hope to get a sub-30 in september.

Thank you all! irontwig, I know you can get!

1st scramble: F2 R2 U2 B D2 R F' L2 R' D B U' L2 F' D' L' R2 U' L' R2 F U2 L R2 U2
1st solution: L' D F2 D' L F L2 B' L F' L' B L D' L D F' D' F D L F2 R' F2 L' B' D B (28 HTM)

Spoiler

30 min backup solution.

(For inverse scramble)
Pre-scramble: D2 F2 D' L

1st square: (done)
2nd square: B' D' B
3rd square: L F2
F2L minus 1 slot: R F2 L' D' *
Finish F2L: F' D F D'
All but 3 corners: L' D F L F' L' D'
Correction: D2 F2 D' L

Insert at *: D2 F' U2 F D2 F' U2 F

Great scramble with three pre-made c/e pairs, so I expected AsR during the solve, but unfortunately I couldn't find such a solution in time.

In the remaining 30 min, I found the following shorter, 21-move skeleton:

(For inverse scramble)
Pre-scramble: D2 F2 D' L

1st square: (done)
2nd square: B' D' B
3rd square: L F2
F2L minus 1 slot: R F2 L' D'
All but 3 corners: L D' L2 D F L' F' L
Correction: D2 F2 D' L

But I couldn't find a good insertion that cancels more than 1 move.
Therefore I submitted the previous solution.

2nd scramble: D2 L R' D B' L2 R F2 D2 L' U' R2 D B2 D B' F D2 U2 F2 D2 R' B2 R2 D2
2nd solution: R' B L F L' U' L U B' U' F U B U' B' U' F' U' R U F2 D2 B U2 B' D2 B U2 B' L B (31 HTM)

Spoiler

NISS solve.

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: F' B' R

1st square: B' L'
2nd square: F2 U'
3rd square: R' U F U B
F2L minus 1 slot: F' L'

(Normal)
Pre-scramble: L F B' U' F' U' R U F2 L B

F2L minus 1 slot: R' B L F L'
All but 5 corners: U'
Correction: L * F B' U' F' U' R U F2 + L B

1st insertion at *: U B' U' F U B U' F' (to save time, didn't search after this place)
2nd insertion at +: D2 B U2 B' D2 B U2 B' (no cancel )

 

[y235]

NISS of course!

what does it means?

 

[Cubenovice]

what does it means?

Novel Inspection System by Schultz

 

[StachuK1992]

Link me to the best description? I'm still looking around..

 

[Yes We Can!]

Novel Inspection System by Schultz

I thought it was Normal Inverse Scramble Switch.

 

[Cubenovice]

I thought it was Normal Inverse Scramble Switch.

There's no place for "thinking" in cubing!
CFOP has eliminated the need for it...

 

[Cubenovice]

Link me to the best description? I'm still looking around..

Here's the original post by Guus from waaaay up in this thread:

Hi folks,

For advanced FMC users here is a nice example of my NISS-method for FMC (Novel-Inspection-System by Schultz):
Scramble: (fmc.mustcube.net #265) F2 B' R' B D B F' R B F L' D2 U2 B2 D U' B' F D2 L' F2 B' R2 B2 R L' F2 U' F' L

my solve: D' B' U B2 D' L F2 L' D R U2 R U2 B' R' U2 RU' R B' R' F2 U' L B' (25)
explanation:
inverse scramble: nice start: B L' U F2 (4)
apply on normal sramble: [pre-moves F2 U' L B'] nice continuation: D' B' U B2 R2
apply on inverse scramble: [pre-moves R2 B2 U' B D]: B L' U F2 (4+[5])
then continuation on inverse scramble was easy:
F2L: R B R' U R' U2 R B (12+[5])
LL: U2 R' U2 R' D' L F2 L' D R2 (22+[5])
pre-move correction: R2 B2 U' B D, 2 moves cancel (25)
Took my 90 minutes including finding a 29-move 1-hour solution

NB. I should reduce executing time otherwise I will get an DNF next WC as well

Gus

 

[Yes We Can!]

There's no place for "thinking" in cubing!
CFOP has eliminated the need for it...

no need to be so aggressive... There are also CFOP solvers that think when solving

. Also, why does it bother you that some people don't think when they solve the cube? They might be just lazy or not interested in cube theory and I don't see any reason to blame them for that, even if they were just stupid ... Just do what you like and let other people do what they please and don't complain when you dislike their thoughtless approaches.

 

[guusrs]

I thought it was Normal Inverse Scramble Switch.

You are right!

Cubenovice is joking ;-) (and Schultz is not my name!)

 

[DavidWoner]

My super unlucky solution for second scramble at US Nats

Scramble: D U' B2 U2 L2 U2 L D B' F D2 B' D U R U2 B2 U

2x2x2: D' L' D L D L D' [7/7] (I know there were a few 5 movers but I was curious about this one)
psuedoF2L-1: B R L U' L' R U [7/14]
some stuff: B R2 [2/16]
leave 3 corners: R' D' R D2 B D' B' [7/23-1]
3cycle: D L2 D R' D' L2 D R D2 [9/32-1]

Resulting in 31 moves. Unless I am grossly mistaken there is not a single 8 move insertion possible. I wasted a lot of time checking this because I have never heard of such a thing happening. Of course it is theoretically possible but I just figured that it was so improbable that I would never encounter it. I was so furious that I couldn't manage to write down my solution properly and took the DNF, even though I *should* have easily gotten a 29 or better.

Am I mistaken or is 31 moves really the best result possible for that skeleton? Has anyone else experienced this?

 

[Cubenovice]

no need to be so aggressive... There are also CFOP solvers that think when solving

. Also, why does it bother you that some people don't think when they solve the cube? They might be just lazy or not interested in cube theory and I don't see any reason to blame them for that, even if they were just stupid ... Just do what you like and let other people do what they please and don't complain when you dislike their thoughtless approaches.

Dammit, I always forget to ad winks to my jokes.
Don't worry; I do not look down upon any method or style of solving, it's all good to me.

Perhaps I should have posted my original idea, then it would have been more obvious that I was joking. " What do you know about cubing"

Sorry Guus, there is no R in Niss so I had to cancel some stuff in true FMC style.

 

[Mike Hughey]

@David: I remembered someone told me about this and I thought it sounded utterly impossible. I did find this that's one move better (due to a single cancellation on a 9-mover), so it's down to 30 moves, but it still astonishes me that there are no 8-movers in the whole solve.

2x2x2: D' L' D L D L . D'
psuedoF2L-1: B R L U' L' R U
some stuff: B R2
leave 3 corners: R' D' R D2 B D' B'
insert at .: L U2 L D2 L' U2 L D2 L2
L L become L2 before insertion

Very nice solve, by the way.

 

[cuBerBruce]

When you have a case where a corner 3-cycle needs to have a sticker move to the opposite face on an adjacent corner position (e.g. DRF -> UFR), I think of this as a "bad pair" of corners. When you have such a bad pair, there are no 8-movers for that position, no matter where the 3rd corner is. In the example DRF -> UFR, only a D or U layer move will break up the bad pair, so I often see such bad pairs survive several moves in a row. And when they do get broken up, you still might have a different pair (out of the three pairs in the 3-cycle) that is bad.

Unfortunately, in David's skeleton, there is a bad pair (or sometimes two) at every point in the skeleton except at three points. And those 3 points require a 12-mover. Although the skeleton has two places with commuting moves, swapping the commuting moves doesn't help either. I'm sure I've seen skeletons with bad pairs (or 12-move cases) existing through much of the skeleton, but I don't recall one like this where no 8-mover can be done anywhere.