Memory Methods

[Marcell]

And 24 if you're aiming for bigger cubes but your buffers are different on them.

 

[buelercuber]

what's a method?

 

[scylla]

Are there memory methods especially for multiple blindfold?

Two main reasons why did may differ:
1. In speed blindfold it's important to maximize memory speed(under certain restriction of succes chance), but in multiple blindfold it's important to maximize memorisation success chance (under certain restriction of speed)
2. In multiple blindfold you have also minimize the chance of interference between cubes (which you dont have in speed blindfold)

 

[riffz]

Are there memory methods especially for multiple blindfold?

Two main reasons why did may differ:
1. In speed blindfold it's important to maximize memory speed(under certain restriction of succes chance), but in multiple blindfold it's important to maximize memorisation success chance (under certain restriction of speed)
2. In multiple blindfold you have also minimize the chance of interference between cubes (which you dont have in speed blindfold)

Yes. Typically people use Journey or other methods that allow you to memorize more information for longer amounts of time.

 

[scylla]

Im looking for methods which minimize the amount of memorisation.

By example, I do BFD first orientation, than permutation ( I know, that's for losers )

For orientation of the edges of 1 cube I can memorize it with 1 number between 0 and 2^13-1 (or in 3 numbers between 0 and 2^4-1, to make less calcualations during solve), for orientation of the edges, I can do something similar with a number between 0 and 3^8-1.

when I memorize the number let's say 2313 for edges, I reconstruct that the edges 11,8,3 and 0, are misoriented because 2^11+2^8+2^3+2^0 = 2313.

I thought this out by myself but probably this already exists (like almost all cuberelated things you can invent )

Now im looking for a reconstruct method for permutations as well, are there any?

 

[Stefan]

For orientation of the edges of 1 cube I can memorize it with 1 number between 0 and 2^13-1

Not 2^12-1?

Now im looking for a reconstruct method for permutations as well, are there any?

There's one here: http://kociemba.org/math/coordlevel.htm

 

[Sakarie]

Actually, you can cut the EO-memo even more, and make it easier, if you pair the binar numbers four and four, and memo them with three hexadecimal numbers. It would make everything much easier to convert too.

You should be aware that no matter how how you convert it, you'll always memo the same amount of information. So if you really want to do 3OP, you could create systems like 142 is a cake, 634 is a baboon, and so on. But just as your system will probably turn out, the converting will probably take more time than doing the "extra" memo.

 

[Johan444]

I'm using Old Pochmann with T and J perms. First I memorize the edges and then the corners.

I'm using a room in my apartment with 11 different locations to memorize the edges, every edge has two images or objects depending on the orientation. I don't do anything special to memorize new cycles for the edges. I go through the edges once after I've memorized them.

For the corners I memorize A for white and yellow stickers, B for blue and green and C for red and orange. For new cycles I memorize a "." and the order or path is visual, it's easy to remember since I solve them first. So for example a memorized string for corners could be "A . B C C C . A A".

I don't know if the corner method is used by anyone else but it's really nice.

Needless to say this method is kinda slow (for me avg. 4 min per solve), but I find it really safe. :tu

 

[scylla]

Not 2^12-1?

yeah im sorry

There's one here: http://kociemba.org/math/coordlevel.htm

thx this is very interesting, difficult to reconstruct, but interesting (I do not know all multples of x! by heart for every x)

 

[Faz]

2, or 4 letters to a location?

 

[Tim Major]

Fit as many as you can. I had all 7 corners on one location a while ago. I don't see why it should be fixed.

 

[Zane_C]

Well, at the moment I can't make events that well. So for me it's 2, I want to switch to 4 soon.

 

[riffz]

2, or 4 letters to a location?

Are you using 2 letters per image? If so I'd say you could easily do 6.

 

[Mike Hughey]

Are you using 2 letters per image? If so I'd say you could easily do 6.

I do 6 most of the time - 3 images per location. But for 3x3x3 multi, I just put all edges at one location, and all corners at another location, with flipped edges and twisted corners each getting their own additional locations if needed. So that can be quite many letters at a single location for edges!

 

[cmhardw]

I do 6 most of the time - 3 images per location. But for 3x3x3 multi, I just put all edges at one location, and all corners at another location, with flipped edges and twisted corners each getting their own additional locations if needed. So that can be quite many letters at a single location for edges!

Hey Mike,

Just a question from an uninformed MultiBLDer, but why combine them? Why don't you split up the edges into 2 locations to ease the memory load per location, but just utilize more locations? I'm reminded of Boris Konrad who memorizes a deck of cards with one image per card per location, but uses journeys that are 52 locations in length. It seems a sort of hybrid of this would allow you to memorize "normally" with 3 images per locations, and just use specially prepared "multi" journeys that allow you to do this.

Just curious, and just trying to bring it up as a topic of conversation. I'm sure you have reasons for why you prefer to memorize this way.

Chris

 

[Mike Hughey]

I actually started by memorizing as you suggest; I did it that way for the first couple of years. Then, as an experiment, I tried this way, and found I was instantly about a minute per cube faster by doing it this way. It turns out that I have delays between the locations when I split them up, and although this way requires slightly longer to get it memorized (you'd think it would be a lot more, but it's really just a few seconds more), it pays off big (really big) during execution. Making the change to this was one of the biggest improvements I've ever had in multi!

I've often wondered if this means I should do the same for big cubes BLD - switch to something like 6 images per location instead of 3. But I've never really bothered to try. Maybe I'll try next week just to see what it's like, after Dayton.

 

[cmhardw]

... Then, as an experiment, I tried this way, and found I was instantly about a minute per cube faster by doing it this way...

I've often wondered if this means I should do the same for big cubes BLD - switch to something like 6 images per location instead of 3...

Wow! That's really neat, I would not have expected that! I'm not sure how well it would work for centers, as you would consistently have around a location and a half or so. For wings that could be very neat to always memorize them in 2 locations!

I'll have to try this on 3x3x3. For some reason I have the hardest time with 3x3x3 edges, and the central most edges of the 5x5x5. I feel I should be memorizing them more efficiently than the 2 locations I normally use, and using single syllable words for both corners and edges seems to be just a bit much for the 10 second auditory memory loop for me. I'll have to give this a shot for 3x3x3 edges and see how it goes.

Chris

 

[riffz]

Chris: I've been meaning to ask you... You say that you can't use your auditory system for both edges and corners because it's too much, but have you considered using the auditory for edges and the journey for corners? That way you could store a bit more using your short term memory, and have less to memo using journey, which obviously takes more time. I'd say most of the time corners require 4 or 3 images, so you could always use just one room for the journey part of your memo.

 

[cmhardw]

Chris: I've been meaning to ask you... You say that you can't use your auditory system for both edges and corners because it's too much, but have you considered using the auditory for edges and the journey for corners?

Wow, no to be honest I have never tried that. I can see what you mean, I would usually have between 5 and 7 words for edges which could be said or thought easily within the 10 seconds. I guess I just got so used to practicing my auditory system on the 2x2x2 that I began to associate it with corners. I will certainly try using it for edges on the 3x3x3 in this week's competition to see how it goes. This would mean memorizing the edges last and solving first, when I typically do this for corners, but that would not be a difficult switch to make.

Thanks for the idea!

Chris

 

[Mike Hughey]

I agree - that is an interesting idea! It does seem that auditory for corners has some breathing room - it definitely feels like you can do more than just the corners with auditory - but I agree with Chris that it's too much to do both. But if you could get the edges to work, that would be a potential real improvement! It could make a big difference on regular 3x3x3 BLD.

The only catch now is that it will involve switching to doing edges first instead of corners first. That'll just take some getting used to for 3x3x3, but it's a real problem for me for 5x5x5, since I don't have entirely center-safe algs for those pieces on 5x5x5. Looks like Chris has an advantage on me there.