[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

I have now learned how to do the eo-line

Unfortunately I take alot of time preplanning and trying to figure out the orientation of pieces any tips on how to do this faster...besides practice
 
I have now learned how to do the eo-line

Unfortunately I take alot of time preplanning and trying to figure out the orientation of pieces any tips on how to do this faster...besides practice
practice a lot.
Once you can do EOLine you jsut have to do it over and over and over, until you can plan it in <15 seconds
 
www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWqRDZy2X4g

Video won't show if I just put it on here. But there's the link to my ZZ PB.

Great turning speed. I also like how you keep track of EO without using your fingers, nice touch :)

Main constructive criticism I would give is to try avoid looking round the back of the cube. I think it happened once during F2L and also during PLL recog. During F2L you can normally avoid looking at the B and D faces with good look-ahead, but if lookahead fails, try using R/L moves to find what you're looking for instead of rotations. With PLL I guess its just a case of using 2-sided recog. At the moment I'm using 3-sided recognition - bit easer than with two ;)

Also, nice cam .. what is it?
 
Yellow top, blue front for me too.

I like seeing red/orange for bad edges and like a nice bright white on line edges and F2L corners.
 
I'm trying to understand the LL step in ZZ. Does ZZLL assume the use of phasing (ie ZZ-b)? If so, does that mean it consists of normal COLL and a paritied version of COLL? And how does all this fit in with ZBLL?

Thanks for entertaining my noob questions =)
 
I'm trying to understand the LL step in ZZ. Does ZZLL assume the use of phasing (ie ZZ-b)? If so, does that mean it consists of normal COLL and a paritied version of COLL? And how does all this fit in with ZBLL?

Thanks for entertaining my noob questions =)

ZZLL does require phasing.

Basically, for ZZLL, you learn 4 versions of COLL to solve the LL in one step, once two opposite edges are permuted after phasing.

ZZLL is part of ZBLL. ZBLL includes all of ZZLL in addition to all the cases where two opposite edges are not permuted.

But, remember that ZZLL is not necessary for ZZ. You can solve the last layer however you want.
 
Basically, for ZZLL, you learn 4 versions of COLL to solve the LL in one step, once two opposite edges are permuted after phasing.

ZZLL is part of ZBLL. ZBLL includes all of ZZLL in addition to all the cases where two opposite edges are not permuted.

How would you characterize these 4 COLL versions? I assume they depend on how you want to permute the edges. It seems like there would be a lot more than 4 though. (retain edges, swap F/B edges, swap L/R, rotate all clockwise, rotate all counterclockwise, rotate all 180, 2 different adjacent swaps) Or would the oriented edges (or something else) eliminate some of these situations?

EDIT: It looks like all those scenarios I mentioned take place, however only a seemingly random 4 show up for each COLL case. Weird.

Also, have these algs been collected anywhere or do I have to go through the whole ZB list?

EDIT: http://stubers.org/jamesstuff/cube/zzll.php (incomplete, but lots of nice 2 and 3-gen algs)
Oh wait, is this your website James!?
http://www.emsee.110mb.com/Speedcubing/ZZLL/index.html (diagrams are hard to read, and only optimal move algs)
 
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Basically, for ZZLL, you learn 4 versions of COLL to solve the LL in one step, once two opposite edges are permuted after phasing.

ZZLL is part of ZBLL. ZBLL includes all of ZZLL in addition to all the cases where two opposite edges are not permuted.

How would you characterize these 4 COLL versions? I assume they depend on how you want to permute the edges. It seems like there would be a lot more than 4 though. (retain edges, swap F/B edges, swap L/R, rotate all clockwise, rotate all counterclockwise, rotate all 180, 2 different adjacent swaps) Or would the oriented edges (or something else) eliminate some of these situations?

EDIT: It looks like all those scenarios I mentioned take place, however only a seemingly random 4 show up for each COLL case. Weird.

Also, have these algs been collected anywhere or do I have to go through the whole ZB list?

EDIT: http://stubers.org/jamesstuff/cube/zzll.php (incomplete, but lots of nice 2 and 3-gen algs)
Oh wait, is this your website James!?
http://www.emsee.110mb.com/Speedcubing/ZZLL/index.html (diagrams are hard to read, and only optimal move algs)

I'm not sure I completely understand the COLL divisions, either, but I think this might be a good way to explain it.

Take a solved cube and do the following:

U' R' U2 R' U2 R U' R U2 R' U2 R' U' R U R

You should get a pure "T" OLL case (by pure, I mean no permutation of any pieces is required). What's the COLL case? No corners need to be moved (I recognize this be seeing that FUR and FUL are the same color and UBR and UBL are the same color).

Now do an H-perm and a (U2 y2).

You still have the same edge case: no edges need to be moved. Also, the COLL case is the same. If you did a U2, all the corners would be in the right positions, but then the edges would not. I like to think of this case as where all the corners are solved in relation to other corners, and all the edges are solved in relation to other edges, but the edges and corners are not solved in relation to each other...we have two COLL cases where edges are solved.

The same goes for the cases where two edges need to be switched. Peform (R' U' R U' R' U2 R2 U R' U R U2 R' U y'). Notice how FU and BU need to switch. Now do an H-perm. The case is the same, except than LU and RU need to switch.

Sorry if my explanation is not clear; perhaps someone else can help...:confused:

As for algorithms, I found most of mine using Cube Explorer and the rest using the database on the wiki. Although most of my algorithms are written on random scraps of paper, I am working on compiling them into neat, organized pdf documents. I've done the first three sets, and I can upload them if anyone is interested.

Finally, no, that is not my website. Both of those sites offer collections of ZZLL algs, but the former is very incomplete, and the latter is not necessarily composed of very fast ones.
 
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