[Help Thread] Colour Neutrality Discussion

[Johannes91]

And for those of you who start with a certain color every time, what is your argument on why this is better?

I've never heard a single good argument (and I don't think there are any), mostly because those people just can't know what it's like being color neutral.

I think that people who have been color neutral for a long time and only later restricted themselves to a single color could give a meaningful comparison. But I don't know anyone who has done that.

 

[AvGalen]

I have been color neutral for about 20 years, but started on white when I got into speedcubing. The only reason I did it was because everyone else did it and because it made following tutorials and learning algs easier.

Being color neutral is an extra quality most speedcubers don't have (yet), but they might change it in the future. At Swedish Cube Day there was a 2 move yellow cross (7 moves white), but I only saw Erik taking advantage of it (he is opposite colors neutral)

 

[Erik]

hmm are you sure Arnaud, I remember scrambling cubes for group 3 and seeing a 2 move cross on yellow. I'm not sure I had a 2 move yellow cross somewhere but then again I was so tired I don't remember that much...

 

[AvGalen]

I don't remember which group I was in, but I was also scrambling (not at the same time as you were) and found that 2 move cross. I was pretty sure not many people would use it, so I started looking at the competition and saw you using it, but nobody else.

 

[badmephisto]

My only argument for using the same color is that I hope my recognition times are much better. For example when you are neutral and you decide on cross color, you have to carry that color subconsciously with you throughout the solve. Also for example in PLL Recognition, I can rule out a bunch of cases from one quick look because the color's don't seem right. So colors provide me a very strong visual clue to what is going on around the entire cube, only from looking at 2 sides.

 

[Lt-UnReaL]

I'm opposite color neutral. Any other color would take about 4-5 seconds longer, I guess...

 

[sam]

an argument that i like using is that with color neutrality you tend to have much lower move counts for cross and x-crosses because you tend to look more at the whole cube and not just white/yellow cross pieces.

 

[Dene]

I can't even see the problem lol. Being colour neutral, you don't have to "carry that color subconsciously with you throughout the solve". You barely even see the colours! I think it's hard to understand if you are always looking for the same colours, but, it's almost as though there is no distinction between the colours. You aren't really thinking "ok where are the blue pieces", you're looking for the specific patterns that you can apply algorithms to. Also you're too busy focussing on your look ahead. It's really hard to explain, but like I said, you don't even notice the fact that it is any particular colour.

 

[badmephisto]

also for example when i tighten tension on my cube, I usually leave yellow a little looser and white a little tighter, because after the cross, you almost never want to do D turns, so it can only add to accidental turns in your hands etc.

anyway this problem can only be decided empirically. Are there any sub15 people that are color neutral?

 

[Lucas Garron]

also for example when i tighten tension on my cube, I usually leave yellow a little looser and white a little tighter, because after the cross, you almost never want to do D turns, so it can only add to accidental turns in your hands etc.

Yeah, my yellow and white faces tend to be a tad looser, for (and from) PLL.

anyway this problem can only be decided empirically. Are there any sub15 people that are color neutral?

Okay, don't ask it that way. That's not science, it's bad statistics (and you know what Mark Twain says about statistics).

(Johannes, by the way.)

 

[Hadley4000]

Color neutral

I, now, am color neutral. Lots of people at Chattahoochee were amazed by that. But, a lot of people think that it ends up hurting you, and many people encouraged me to pick a face, and no longer be color neutral.


What are y'alls opinions?

 

[Johannes91]

But, a lot of people think that it ends up hurting you, and many people encouraged me to pick a face, and no longer be color neutral.

Unless those people were good at color neutrality (otherwise they can't know what they're talking about), and unless they gave you some concrete reasons why you should restrict yourself, don't listen to them.

 

[36duong]

Go for it, while doing one face is good, if you are very good at being colour neutral I think it is good. I tried once, but instead of 15-20 seconds for my F2L, it took 20-25, though my LL was the same.

I can do opposite colour cross, though I rarely do so. I would say if being colour neutral comes, go for it, if it doesn't don't waste too much time.

 

[jackolanternsoup]

I'm a bit sceptical about colour neutrality because I wonder how much time you spend looking for a cross to do.. Personally, I think just doing one face and opposite colour cross would suffice. Maybe unless you're looking for extended cross then colour neutral-ness would be very useful I'm sure..

 

[Inusagi]

I was Color neutral, but I changed. I am more comfortable with using the same side always.

 

[masterofthebass]

Didn't Lars V. prove that color neutrality, for fridrich, is bogus. His cross solving study said that you save like 1 or 2 moves on average. Also, you should be solving the cross in under 2.5 seconds. I don't think taking 3 more moves is really going to destroy your time. I think there's no point of color neutrality, not that its bad for you.

 

[Johannes91]

Didn't Lars V. prove that color neutrality, for fridrich, is bogus.

If you will only ever use Fridrich, then yes, the advantage is quite small when compared to other methods. But there are some quite fast color neutral Fridrich users so I think it's not fair to say it's "bogus". If it doesn't slow you down, saving n moves for any n > 0 is, in my opinion, a good idea.

I think there's no point of color neutrality, not that its bad for you.

I think that if you ever want to become a good cuber, you should try to become good at several different methods. So just because you don't see point in color neutarlity for Fridrich shouldn't mean that there's no point in color neutrality in general. In Petrus, for example, color neutrality helps in several steps, so it's much more useful than in Fridrich.

 

[masterofthebass]

Johannes, I agree that color neutrality is necessary for other methods.. It's almost impossible to not be in other methods, such as Petrus. There may be some fast color neutral Fridrich users, but that still doesn't give them an advantage. In respect to the Fridrich method, I just think that there's no advantage to it.

 

[ExoCorsair]

My color neutrality is starting to pay off, so I can't say that it's a bad thing.

 

[fanwuq]

I do not use color neutral for 3x3, but I do use it for all other puzzles. (2x2, big cubes, pyraminx)
It is not that useful unless you see a really obvious 1 move cross, 2 move extended cross, or something really nice. I would do that if such a really easy case comes up.
Otherwise, stick with one color, or you would end up wasting time deciding colors during inspection than looking ahead further.