Color Neutral walkthrough

[Faz]

My opinions on this whole topic.

Seeing as Rowe Hessler, and I have achieved sub 11 averages with color neutral, I strongly believe it is a good........... method? way of solving?

I have attempted to solve with just the white cross a number of times, and my average was slightly slower than usual. If I were to practice hard at white cross, I'm sure I could bring it up to my regular average.

With the " no-one can never be truly color neutral" remark, I believe that I am truly color neutral - so take that, and try and disprove it.

I think that color neutral is the way to go for the future, as it has a fewer move count on average, as most crosses are fewer than five moves, and this also allows lookahead for the first F2L pair.

If anyone has any questions, or would like to argue their point, please reply to this.

CN ftw!

 

[Stefan]

[color neutral ...] most crosses are fewer than five moves

Fail.

 

[JLarsen]

I actually watched this video, and i lol'ed so hard I added it to my list of similiar threads like this one and this one . =]

(The first link get's good on the second page)

 

[Tommie]

I actually watched this video, and i lol'ed so hard I added it to my list of similiar threads like this one and this one . =]

(The first link get's good on the second page)

Is this supposed to insult me or the comments I don`t get it.

 

[JLarsen]

No insult.

 

[Ellis]

I actually watched this video, and i lol'ed so hard I added it to my list of similiar threads like this one and this one . =]

(The first link get's good on the second page)

I remember that first thread. That was hilarious. Thank you for linking it because I had forgotten who made it. I never saw that second one though, pretty funny.

 

[brunson]

[color neutral ...] most crosses are fewer than five moves

Fail.

Most crosses are five moves or fewer.

 

[Johannes91]

someone who is color neutral may average 18 for any color cross, but if they picked a single color and practiced only that one, then they could easily average 16.

I wonder why that would be. I honestly don't see a reason. Until we can time travel, this is only speculation.

I see all forms of color neutrality as a way to avoid bad crosses

Is this debate color neutrality vs. not in general, or color neutral CFOP vs. not? If you've decided to never practise any other puzzles than 3x3x3 and no other methods than pure CFOP, then I agree, the difference is small (but still worth it). But if you're also interested in other puzzles and methods, then color neutrality has a lot of big advantages (2x2x2, Petrus, 4x4x4 centers, etc.).

 

[Rikane]

someone who is color neutral may average 18 for any color cross, but if they picked a single color and practiced only that one, then they could easily average 16.

I wonder why that would be. I honestly don't see a reason. Until we can time travel, this is only speculation.

I think that may be based on them having their brain(?) differentiate between the different colour schemes based on their cross colour for that solve. It may be that without the very small (I believe for people who've "mastered" colour neutrality) process, the times would decrease.

 

[spdcbr]

Heh, firstly the word is "neutral" not "natural". Secondly, really there is no need for this video. If someone says "it slows you down" they are a completely inane moron that doesn't understand the concept of colour neutrality. By definition being colour neutral means that there is no difference to your times. If it is slowing you down you are not colour neutral.
Using my predicting the future skills, I can see that this thread is going to fill up with idiots that will try to argue that I'm wrong. Oh well, I've already flamed them so I have nothing more to say.

Dene is the master at fortune telling .

 

[rahulkadukar]

Well being Two side Color neutral is not difficult you only need to adjust your cross. But then I use LBL so I may get slower as I switch to F2L

 

[Daniel Wu]

Well being Two side Color neutral is not difficult you only need to adjust your cross. But then I use LBL so I may get slower as I switch to F2L

Not really. I pretty much only use green cross. But using F2L, with blue instead of green, it's not that bad cuz the colors and similar.

 

[DavidWoner]

someone who is color neutral may average 18 for any color cross, but if they picked a single color and practiced only that one, then they could easily average 16.

I wonder why that would be. I honestly don't see a reason. Until we can time travel, this is only speculation.

I don't see a reason either, nor do I agree with it. I was merely trying to clarify his post for someone else.

I see all forms of color neutrality as a way to avoid bad crosses

Is this debate color neutrality vs. not in general, or color neutral CFOP vs. not? If you've decided to never practise any other puzzles than 3x3x3 and no other methods than pure CFOP, then I agree, the difference is small (but still worth it). But if you're also interested in other puzzles and methods, then color neutrality has a lot of big advantages (2x2x2, Petrus, 4x4x4 centers, etc.).

I was speaking solely about CFOP 3x3, which seems to be the main topic of this particular debate. I guess I was a bit sloppy with my wording when I said "all forms." Actually the only non-3x3 puzzles I am not color neutral on are megaminx and square-1. Megaminx because I see it as a giant 3x3, but I hardly practice it anyway so it doesn't really matter to me. And square-1 because its mechanically impossible to be color neutral. I'll be a bit more specific next time.

 

[holypasta]

What Joe Gibney is trying to say is that someone who is color neutral may average 18 for any color cross, but if they picked a single color and practiced only that one, then they could easily average 16.

i know that's what he was *trying* to say, but it's not what he actually said.

this being said, nobody is truly color neutral, because no matter how much you train your mind, black will still offer quicker recognition on the cube than yellow.

This is pseudoscientific BS. Besides, who the hell puts black on their 3x3?

pardon my language, but you're an idiot for thinking that. it's a basic fact -- common sense, even -- that certain colors (usually very dark or very bright) are seen before others by the human eye. this technique has been used by artists to emphasize certain parts of a painting for centuries.

and yes, i put black on my 3x3. why on earth would you have a problem with that?

quote from Joseph: "Being color neutral means that the color you choose to start with makes no difference to your times. This does not necessarily mean being color neutral won't slow you down."

i lol'd at this one. an exact representation of what you said is:

x makes no difference to y.

and in the next sentence:

however, this doesn't mean x won't make a difference to y.

...did that make sense to you when you wrote it?

I think vault has already sufficiently clarified my previous statement with his example, although I thought the next sentence of my post would accomplish that as well. By definition, it makes no difference to a color neutral solver's times which side he/she starts with. However, focusing your efforts on one color might lead to faster recognition for that side. I'm not saying that color neutral solving is good or bad; there are very good cubers that use it to great effect. Personally, I feel that opposite color solving is a nice compromise, and I use that in my solves.

And to answer your question, holypasta: Yes, I did think that my post made sense when I wrote it, although I was posting in haste, so perhaps I should have made my language more precise.

I completely agree [with the bolded text.] thank-you for rephrasing.

sorry if i was a little harsh before, but your phrasing was definitely off.

I have attempted to solve with just the white cross a number of times, and my average was slightly slower than usual. If I were to practice hard at white cross, I'm sure I could bring it up to my regular average.

With the " no-one can never be truly color neutral" remark, I believe that I am truly color neutral - so take that, and try and disprove it.

i believe you.

i shouldn't have said before that it's impossible to be color-neutral. it's just very difficult.

[color neutral ...] most crosses are fewer than five moves

Fail.

Most crosses are five moves or fewer.

no, you fail. he meant that most COLOR-NEUTRAL crosses are under five moves. however, most single-color crosses are fewer than six.

someone who is color neutral may average 18 for any color cross, but if they picked a single color and practiced only that one, then they could easily average 16.

I wonder why that would be. I honestly don't see a reason. Until we can time travel, this is only speculation.

i agree that it's only speculation at this point, but it makes sense.

---final summation:

neutral cross only has one less move than single-color cross, and -- unless you train for a long time and get REALLY good with color-neutrality -- it will slow you down in the long run, because your mind still recognizes some colors more quickly than others. so, it can be good or bad depending on how hard you work at it. in fact, i think i'll start trying to become color-neutral. if nothing else, it poses an intriguing challenge.

sorry for the really long post, but i just learned how to multi-quote. i guess i went a little overboard.

 

[Ellis]

Whoa whoa whoa holypasta... you just said qqwerf was an idiot and that Stefan failed in the same post.

1) qqwerf is not an idiot, and he is absolutely right
2) Stefan did not (and does not) fail. You are so wrong here. I can't believe you still think most color neutral crosses are under 5 moves. edit- what's funny is someone already pointed out the correction, and YOU still FAILED.

 

[DavidWoner]

Whoa whoa whoa holypasta... you just said qqwerf was an idiot and that Stefan failed in the same post.

1) qqwerf is not an idiot, and he is absolutely right
2) Stefan did not (and does not) fail. You are so wrong here. I can't believe you still think most color neutral crosses are under 5 moves. edit- what's funny is someone already pointed out the correction, and YOU still FAILED.

and he failed again by saying most single-color crosses are less than six.

 

[JLarsen]

This thread continues to earn it's spot as one of my favorite threads....

 

[Ethan Rosen]

@holypasta
<5 != 5
bai now

 

[shelley]

it's a basic fact -- common sense, even -- that certain colors (usually very dark or very bright) are seen before others by the human eye. this technique has been used by artists to emphasize certain parts of a painting for centuries.

[citation needed]

Citation not available, why? Because you're full of BS. The "basic fact" is light in the same medium travels at the same speed regardless of wavelength. How can one color be seen before another?

 

[DavidWoner]

this being said, nobody is truly color neutral, because no matter how much you train your mind, black will still offer quicker recognition on the cube than yellow.

This is pseudoscientific BS. Besides, who the hell puts black on their 3x3?

pardon my language, but you're an idiot for thinking that. it's a basic fact -- common sense, even -- that certain colors (usually very dark or very bright) are seen before others by the human eye. this technique has been used by artists to emphasize certain parts of a painting for centuries.

and yes, i put black on my 3x3. why on earth would you have a problem with that?

Even if that "common sense" "fact" were true (which its not), there are still 3 colors on any given F2L pair, and you need to recognize all of them. So you should stop with this before you fall any more behind.