ZZ speedcubing method

[puzzlemaster]

could someone please explain ZZ to me? so far all i've gathered is the winter variation and CLS but that's only for the corners. I still don't understand the edges

 

[fanwuq]

could someone please explain ZZ to me? so far all i've gathered is the winter variation and CLS but that's only for the corners. I still don't understand the edges

CLS and WV are not part of ZZ, they are separate ideas, but can be used with ZZ.
In petrus, you build blocks, then EO, then finish F2L RU.
In ZZ, you do EO, build blocks while finishing F2L RUL.
one F turn flips 4 edges on that layer. Figure out the rest of it yourself.

 

[Musturd]

In ZZ, you do EO, build blocks while finishing F2L RUL.
one F turn flips 4 edges on that layer. Figure out the rest of it yourself.

Or go
here: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10305
here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO0IeE40wfc&feature=related
or here: (and I can't find a third link)

I've been following the ZZ thread (and looking up old threads) for a few days now.
If I wasn't swamped with work, I would probably be trying to get eoline down.

Also try looking through this thread.

 

[puzzlemaster]

could someone please explain ZZ to me? so far all i've gathered is the winter variation and CLS but that's only for the corners. I still don't understand the edges

CLS and WV are not part of ZZ, they are separate ideas, but can be used with ZZ.
In petrus, you build blocks, then EO, then finish F2L RU.
In ZZ, you do EO, build blocks while finishing F2L RUL.
one F turn flips 4 edges on that layer. Figure out the rest of it yourself.

ooo i get it...now just an unrelated question if i may: in VHF2L, the edges are oriented. Is there anyway to orient the entire last layer while inserting the last pair? I'm just curious. I'm sure there is a way but it must be a very large amount of algorithms as ZBF2L only orients the edges and is already a very large amount..

 

[fanwuq]

could someone please explain ZZ to me? so far all i've gathered is the winter variation and CLS but that's only for the corners. I still don't understand the edges

CLS and WV are not part of ZZ, they are separate ideas, but can be used with ZZ.
In petrus, you build blocks, then EO, then finish F2L RU.
In ZZ, you do EO, build blocks while finishing F2L RUL.
one F turn flips 4 edges on that layer. Figure out the rest of it yourself.

ooo i get it...now just an unrelated question if i may: in VHF2L, the edges are oriented. Is there anyway to orient the entire last layer while inserting the last pair? I'm just curious. I'm sure there is a way but it must be a very large amount of algorithms as ZBF2L only orients the edges and is already a very large amount..

:FacePalm:

You can do use VHF2L algs (they are the same as ELS for most cases), then do CLS.

 

[Musturd]

Well, I'm no expert, but from what I understand:
Winter Variation (actually it's probably CLS not WV, actually I was right it is WV) orients the corners and the edges are already oriented from eoline.
So, there you go.
WV is less than 50 algorithms (probably around 40 or 20 or something, not sure, and not going to look up)

EDIT: I decided to look it up. 27 http://pagesperso-orange.fr/absolutemind/f2ll-angl.htm

 

[puzzlemaster]

ahhh ok i get it... i'm done with dumb questions now

 

[Cride5]

L R B L' D2 U2 F U2 F R D B2 U L' R F' D U' B' F' R' F2 D' R2 F L' B R' B' U

linEO
R U' B2
y'
F U'
L' U L
B U R' U R
y

This isn't a difficult EOline case. You have four bad edges, Two are already in the B slice. One of your line edges is already in place in DF. EOline can be done with: U L B R U' B2

If I remember rightly, it should never take more than 9 moves for EOLine.

 

[byu]

That is correct

 

[*LukeMayn*]

Woah o.O
I just got 25.82 OH solve!
the EOline was 1 move (D) lol
and the right hand side was super easy to make
normal left side, norm OLL
A perm

 

[Johannes91]

About what "method" to use for solving EOLine: It's such a short step that I don't see any point in breaking it into even smaller ones (like first line, then EO). Just do whatever works best for the particular scramble. If you can't do it in one step, then EO first is better than line first.

And I use OCLL to mean "Orient Corners of LL". Some call it just OLL, but I think that's confusing because the OLL in CFOP has 57 cases but the OLL in Petrus or ZZ has just 7. Since COLL already has another meaning I call it OCLL.

What puzzles me is that what is supposed to be improved (F2L) actually gets worse.

Only if you do it Fridrich style. Which is stupid.

For me, the advantage of having EO solved is that it makes things much simpler. I can track more pieces at once and plan more moves ahead.

Scramble: L R B L' D2 U2 F U2 F R D B2 U L' R F' D U' B' F' R' F2 D' R2 F L' B R' B' U

This isn't a difficult EOline case. You have four bad edges, Two are already in the B slice. One of your line edges is already in place in DF. EOline can be done with: U L B R U' B2

That's optimal for DF-DB. Color neutral: L2 U L B (z').

If I remember rightly, it should never take more than 9 moves for EOLine.

Yep, and superflip is the only case that takes 9 moves. Eight moves is rare, too (about 0.7%), so 7 is almost always enough.

 

[Matthew]

Some stats from me:

Winter variation (F2LL) + PLL:

27 cases - 8.4 moves avg.

but you also have to connect C+E pair - in ZZF2L we have 20 cases - at an average it is 5.5 moves

So overall it is sth about 15 moves (and I exclude AUF) + 12.5 moves for PLL
= 27.5 moves at an avg.


basic ELS + CLS + PLL:

m: 9.59 m. (27 cases)
p: 9.67 m. (27 cases)
o: 11.04 m. (27 cases)
i: 11.88 m. (8 cases)
im: 11.75 m. (8 cases)
c: 8.43 m. (7 cases)

Overall: 104 cases - 10.25 m. at an avg. (I take optimal algs for every case)

but you also have to put edge in correct place:

avg: 2.6 m.

so overall again: str about 13 moves (excluding AUF - and I think that some (1-2) moves can be canceled)

+ 12.5 moves for PLL = 25.5 moves at an avg



normal F2l + COLL + EPLL:

last slot: 7.2 m.

COLL - 10.5 m.

EPLL - 12.25 m.

overall: 30 moves (but EPLL is very fast - can be executed sub1s) - and 1/13 chance to EPLL skip

I use this variation - my averages are earlier in this theard



F2L with phasing + 1 LLL (part of ZBLL)

last slot with phasing - sth about 10 moves (I calculated this in previous year and IMO we need add about 3 moves to phase LL-edges)

1LLL: 12.3 m. optimal so I think a bit over 13 m. for fingers-friendly algs... (169 cases)

overall: 23 m.



F2L + 1 LLL (ZBLL):

last slot: 7.2 m.

LL: 12.2 m. optimal algs so likewise zz-b LL about 13 m. for fingers-friendly algs...


overall: a bit over 20 moves..


Decision belong to you

 

[Cride5]

Some stats from me:

Winter variation (F2LL) + PLL:

27 cases - 8.4 moves avg.

but you also have to connect C+E pair - in ZZF2L we have 20 cases - at an average it is 5.5 moves

So overall it is sth about 15 moves (and I exclude AUF) + 12.5 moves for PLL
= 27.5 moves at an avg.


basic ELS + CLS + PLL:

m: 9.59 m. (27 cases)
p: 9.67 m. (27 cases)
o: 11.04 m. (27 cases)
i: 11.88 m. (8 cases)
im: 11.75 m. (8 cases)
c: 8.43 m. (7 cases)

Overall: 104 cases - 10.25 m. at an avg. (I take optimal algs for every case)

but you also have to put edge in correct place:

avg: 2.6 m.

so overall again: str about 13 moves (excluding AUF - and I think that some (1-2) moves can be canceled)

+ 12.5 moves for PLL = 25.5 moves at an avg



normal F2l + COLL + EPLL:

last slot: 7.2 m.

COLL - 10.5 m.

EPLL - 12.25 m.

overall: 30 moves (but EPLL is very fast - can be executed sub1s) - and 1/13 chance to EPLL skip

I use this variation - my averages are earlier in this theard



F2L with phasing + 1 LLL (part of ZBLL)

last slot with phasing - sth about 10 moves (I calculated this in previous year and IMO we need add about 3 moves to phase LL-edges)

1LLL: 12.3 m. optimal so I think a bit over 13 m. for fingers-friendly algs... (169 cases)

overall: 23 m.



F2L + 1 LLL (ZBLL):

last slot: 7.2 m.

LL: 12.2 m. optimal algs so likewise zz-b LL about 13 m. for fingers-friendly algs...


overall: a bit over 20 moves..


Decision belong to you

... or there's blah's method

 

[Cride5]

Scramble: L R B L' D2 U2 F U2 F R D B2 U L' R F' D U' B' F' R' F2 D' R2 F L' B R' B' U

This isn't a difficult EOline case. You have four bad edges, Two are already in the B slice. One of your line edges is already in place in DF. EOline can be done with: U L B R U' B2

That's optimal for DF-DB. Color neutral: L2 U L B (z').

Nice solution. I prefer not to be colour neutral in ZZ, since the advantages of instinctively knowing where pieces belong deffo outweigh the slightly more optimal EOline/f2l options. Could be an option for FMC though.

 

[Lofty]

I prefer set colors too. I don't think its feasible to do color neutral in the 15s inspection like how in fridrich most people just do white cross. I first check red/orange/white and only if it is terrible will I switch to blue and green.
I started practising this method again and started gathering ZZLL algs again.

 

[Matthew]

... or there's blah's method

Yes - but i don't have move count for last slot in this variation


And... Maybe zz-b has the lowest move count from all this variations.. but I have already all this algs... and.. the shortest algs for each case are very, very finger-unfriendly (likewise more from zbll)... more finger-friendly algs are just so long (both in HTM and in executing) - so few days ago I stopped learning new algs and probably i would stay with COLL+EPLL...

 

[Neroflux]

... or there's blah's method

that's garbage.

ok, at least, the recognition will be garbage.

 

[Joseph Gibney]

...since the advantages of instinctively knowing where pieces belong deffo outweigh the slightly more optimal EOline/f2l options.

I don't think its feasible to do color neutral in the 15s inspection...

I've seen other people mention that they always use the same cube orientation. I am opposite color neutral for CFOP (white/yellow), so for ZZ I put either white or yellow on the bottom, and hold the cube with any color on the front face. Usually I first decide if I want F/B to be Red/Orange or Blue/Green depending on the edge orientation. Then I look for the line pieces, and decide whether white or yellow would be better for the line. In 15 seconds I don't have enough time to do this very thoroughly, but I am no expert at EOline. I think a master of EOline would be able to at least utilize this level of color neutrality.

As for color neutrality slowing down the solve, I recognize edge orientation just as fast either way, and the white/yellow neutrality has no effect on the rest of my solve. Sometimes I start with one color over the other, and don't notice until I hit OLL.

 

[Escher]

This is marginally off topic, but how fast are the fast zz-ers times at bigger cubes after reduction (if you use reduction, that is)? Do you just do EO as fast as possible, and then create line, or do you actually work out a proper EOLine? Or do you just use fridrich? I can imagine that with no/little inspection EOline is hard to do.

 

[ostracod]

I'd bet that ZZ isn't appropriate for large cube reduction methods. Whenever someone wants to time me solving the cube, I HAVE to tell them that inspection is a necessary step before solving. Otherwise, I think I'd add at least 5 seconds to my solve time.

... Would it be possible to orient edges during REDUCTION (while pairing up edge pieces)? Or is that impossible/impractical?