Will Feliks’ GOAT status be challenged?

[ProStar]

At the moment no one touches Feliks. The closest post-Feliks person to “dethroning” him would be Max Park, who likely will never gain that title. Just becuase the 3x3 record has been broken a couple times doesn’t mean suddenly the greatest of all time title is being challenged.

 

[FenTheGoat]

At the moment no one touches Feliks. The closest post-Feliks person to “dethroning” him would be Max Park, who likely will never gain that title. Just becuase the 3x3 record has been broken a couple times doesn’t mean suddenly the greatest of all time title is being challenged.

If Max wins Worlds then podiums the next one, he’ll tie one of Feliks’ biggest accomplishments.

 

[TheSpeedSkewber]

To everyone talking about Max, Tymon etc, this is ALL time. They are the best cubers of the present, but they havent had a long reign or breakthroughs lasting over periods of loads of years.

 

[FenTheGoat]

To everyone talking about Max, Tymon etc, this is ALL time. They are the best cubers of the present, but they havent had a long reign or breakthroughs lasting over periods of loads of years.

Max has been world class and taking Feliks’ records for 6-7 years.

 

[FenTheGoat]

Max has stated that he was inspired by Feliks. So, even if you consider him a candidate for GOAT, you still have to give some credit to Feliks. (I think I already said this)

I feel neutral about this. Yes, Feliks got the community to where it is now, but if we’re talking sheer cubing accomplishments (record, Worlds wins, and things along those lines) I personally think Max could be the GOAT in a few years. (If he gets another Worlds win)

 

[FenTheGoat]

I agree Max is crazy good. I mean he holds single and average wr from 4x4 - 7x7. However, IMO I think GOAT can't be defined by purely cubing achievements. However, if you think so, I would agree Max is close to becoming the GOAT if he wins worlds, takes back his 3x3 average, and stays on top for a few more years. I would also like to point out there are many people who can compete with him such as Tymon, Leo, Matty, Ruihang, and Yiheng this was not present through most of Felik's cubing career.

But, Feliks thrived in a time where cubing wasn’t as big as it is now. Then, it took a few years for people like Max, Tymon, Leo, etc. to get good. It could also be argued that that’s what makes Max so good. Yeah, Tymon, Matty, and Leo can compete with him on 3x3, but it’s nowhere close on 4x4-7x7.

 

[Thom S.]

I'd agree to the degree that Max comes closest to taking the status from Feliks. Not that anyone took it from him already.
(Disclaimer, love Feliks since he started close to when I started and hate Max, so opinion might be biased)
Max, dominates on 3-7, not so much on side events, Feliks was able to compete on them as well(except Skewb and Feet) so there is an argument to be made that Feliks was an allrounder on a higher level.

Not sure how many World Record Max currently has, 70? For me, singular Records, competition Results and home averages(50, 100, 1000) show more of actual skill, because Worlds incorporates Nerved and pressure more.
Don't get me wrong, keeping under pressure is a category of skill as well, but Worlds Results are similarly irrelevant as the olympics. Yet, if one is ambitioned for it, 5 Posiums talks.

Every Great Master has opponents and that is a point I don't wanna talk about too much, since I don't know todays scenery as much as 10 or 5 years ago.
For example, in Darts, there is a lot of discussion about great players involving their competition. Ron van Bruchem was a beast for his time, but did he have the competition Feliks had? Max had Feliks on his back the first 3 years after he popped up, but by this time out Greatest was out of his best days, and then still often jabbed back at Max with another Record, that is to consider as well.

Feliks, in the Timeframe of 2009-2017 has had much more Non-Cubing Stage Presence than what Max has had up until now.

 

[gsingh]

I'd agree to the degree that Max comes closest to taking the status from Feliks. Not that anyone took it from him already.
(Disclaimer, love Feliks since he started close to when I started and hate Max, so opinion might be biased)
Max, dominates on 3-7, not so much on side events, Feliks was able to compete on them as well(except Skewb and Feet) so there is an argument to be made that Feliks was an allrounder on a higher level.

Not sure how many World Record Max currently has, 70? For me, singular Records, competition Results and home averages(50, 100, 1000) show more of actual skill, because Worlds incorporates Nerved and pressure more.
Don't get me wrong, keeping under pressure is a category of skill as well, but Worlds Results are similarly irrelevant as the olympics. Yet, if one is ambitioned for it, 5 Posiums talks.

Every Great Master has opponents and that is a point I don't wanna talk about too much, since I don't know todays scenery as much as 10 or 5 years ago.
For example, in Darts, there is a lot of discussion about great players involving their competition. Ron van Bruchem was a beast for his time, but did he have the competition Feliks had? Max had Feliks on his back the first 3 years after he popped up, but by this time out Greatest was out of his best days, and then still often jabbed back at Max with another Record, that is to consider as well.

Feliks, in the Timeframe of 2009-2017 has had much more Non-Cubing Stage Presence than what Max has had up until now.

I agree with most of your points, but why do you hate Max?

 

[F'prime]

Not gonna lie, I remember watching tv and seeing headlines of Felix's WR Average before I even started cubing. From that day onwards, it inspired me to bring a cube, try solving it, and embracing it.

 

[An Animating Cuber]

GOAT is greatest of all time Feliks isn't the best now but he dominated from 2009 to 2018 in almost every event he competed in makes it hard to say someone has been better than him.

 

[White KB]

Historically, he will always be a great figure in cubing.
But it's like how baseball players from the 1930s had batting averages that were the best at the time and stood for a long time as a record, but they wouldn't even qualify for current baseball leagues today. (I might be mixing baseball up with swimming, but you hopefully understand my point.)

Will Feliks always be regarded as an important historical figure in cubing? Yes. Will he ever regain his world record status? That's to be debated. For the time he competed actively, he was insanely fast, and he still beats most cubers today. Regardless of if he ever podiums at worlds again, and actually regardless of whether he ever competes again, he will still be known as one of the greatest cubers of the 2010s.

 

[tx789]

Anyone who thinks Feliks is no longer the GOAT was only been cubing for like two years at most and doesn't understand how dominant he was at his peak.

He was so far ahead at his peak for 3x3 and stayed at the top for a very long time. Had over 100 WRs in 8 events.

Max doesn't come close he has some impressive results. But Feliks clearly was the top 3x3er from 2010-2017. Mats Valk may of been closer in speed for a while and Alex Lau was faster home for a bit but he never competed much. Tymon is very good at 3x3 but didn't have the dominance Feliks had. And comparing different era gets weird.

Yiheng has only been around for a short time so it remains to be seen what he'll do. Maybe he'll run away with the average like Feliks did but he's young and I doubt he'll still cube in 10 years. He might even no longer he active in 5. But time will tell. Also it's way more competitive at the top too which is more interesting imo.

Ultimately kids these days, asj who's the goat based off the last two years with sprinklings of some results going back a bit further. They really have no clue about what cubing was like for most of the WCA era. Which is an unreasonable expectation to but it makes these discussions frustrating. Since I've been cubing since 2009.

Feliks is simultaneously every possible combination of goat or no goat at once since this is just vibes based and not objective. You can use objective measurements as your argument but the weighting of it isn't subjective. I see people arguing all rounders are goats and that feels wrong to me. BigBld wise Stanley is the goat in my mind but cubing wise no. He doesn't have that many crazy notable results outside his bld. Martin Edgal is really good at most of the event but not multiple WRs and dominant in one event good.

 

[Thom S.]

But it's like how baseball players from the 1930s had batting averages that were the best at the time and stood for a long time as a record, but they wouldn't even qualify for current baseball leagues today.

These are things one has to keep in mind for the broarder picture.
Muhammad Ali is often regarded as the best Boxer of all time.
But mostly not for the Boxing itself.
Fighting through discrimination, mind games, society at that time are all things not directly corrolated with throwing a fist with a glove on, but what made him the greatest to a big degree.

 

[quanloh]

GOAT is GOAT once he/she was crown that status, if his/her GOAT status can be taken away then that's not GOAT but GOST, S:Some. So no, if he is now GOAT, he will always be GOAT.

 

[Random_Person]

Feliks has been beaten in almost all of his accomplishments. He no longer has any WRs, hasn’t podium in Worlds sense 2015, but he still had a few things.

He still has the most Worlds wins and podiums (2 wins 2013, 2016 and 3 podiums 2011, 2013, 2015.) I think that the only person capable to beat this record soon is Max for his Worlds 2017 win and his recent dominance. Yiheng could too, he’s so good and so young. Feliks is also tied with Max for most events won at a single Worlds (5) I also believe Max could break this too. His dominance at big cubes and OH gives him basically 5 free wins, and if he wins at 3x3, that’s 6.

But that’s my 2 cents, I want to hear other peoples’ thoughts on if all of Felik’s accomplishments will be beaten.

Not for a while since many professional cubers nowadays are mainly inspired by Feliks like Max, who is a decent contender for the next greatest (aka 2nd place) along with a few other people, but with the insane impact Feliks has had on cubing and professional cubers, I doubt his title as the GOAT will be taken away for a long time if it ever does get taken, and Yiheng is only so good because of what seems like his mom, and not in a good way either

 

[Thom S.]

GOAT is GOAT once he/she was crown that status, if his/her GOAT status can be taken away then that's not GOAT but GOST, S:Some. So no, if he is now GOAT, he will always be GOAT.

As much as I want Feliks to be the best forever, that is not true. If a new/persisting Cuber comes along and is arguably better than Feliks in enough ways, that person will take the title as new Greatest, that is how it works everywhere.

 

[quanloh]

My point is, the Feliks that we crowned GOAT is always GOAT, but the current Feliks is not the same GOAT, not anymore. THAT Feliks is always GOAT, the new GOAT is also a GOAT, that "throne" has no physical limit, it can hold as many GOAT as "TIME" can throw at it.

 

[THE_V01DL0RD]

did you talk about the 9 year old who won an entire competition

 

[THE_V01DL0RD]

Actually, Minh Thai is the GOAT because he held the world records in all events that existed for a period of 21 years!

 

[FenTheGoat]

GOAT is GOAT once he/she was crown that status, if his/her GOAT status can be taken away then that's not GOAT but GOST, S:Some. So no, if he is now GOAT, he will always be GOAT.

No, that’s like saying Minh Thai is the GOAT. GOAT status can change hands. If someone is more dominant than the current GOAT, they’re the new GOAT. But, let’s say that it’s widely agreed on that Max is te GOAT, after he becomes inactive, we can’t just go back to saying Feliks. I hope that made some sort of sense but I feel like it didn’t.