[Help Thread] Roux Discussion and Help

[TDM]

Hii,

New roux user here,

I just switched from CFOP yesterday, I was averaging 14.xy on CFOP

Hi! I switched at around 14 seconds too.

1) Is improvement in roux faster than improvement in CFOP?

It won't take long to get from your current Roux speed to your current CFOP speed (definitely not as long as it took you with CFOP), but after that it's not really much faster, unless you know where you are slowest. If you know one step is worse than the others, then you can focus on that and improve it, and that will help you get faster.

2) How to master LSE? Any specific things to keep in mind? A good video for fingertricks during LSE?

Firstly, be efficient. Know how to solve all the EO cases optimally (which isn't as hard as it sounds), and learn how to influence ULUR during EO. You can do this by changing some U moves into U's and M's into Ms. Since the ULUR colours are easy to see during LSE, you can track them relatively easily. I find doing lots of slow, untimed solves was helpful for this.

3) For someone aiming consistent sub 9, what is the optimal time for completing F2B

You want your F2B to be roughly half your solve, so 4.5 is a good time to aim for. Maybe 1.5 seconds for FB and 3 for second could be good.

4) Can I know which is the best available list of CMLLs please

As PDF said in the post two above this, algdb.net is the best website for algs. Most algs from other websites are on there so you don't really need to look at any other sites.

5) Is it benificial to try and make the first block in fewest moves possible, or is it more beneficial to compromise on moves and focus on fingertrick friendly first block? Further, What is the best way to continue towards the second block?

Efficiency is important during your first block. At first, try to plan just the first square during inspection. As you improve, try to influence the pair - again, untimed solves are good for this. You eventually want to be planning the full first block in inspection, but don't worry about that for now.
For second block, again, you definitely want to do slow, untimed solves. I found it helpful to do slow solves where I forced myself to be turning constantly - not completely focussing on effiency, but still looking for cancellations and other tricks I might not see in a speedsolve.

Good luck!

 

[GuRoux]

You want your F2B to be roughly half your solve, so 4.5 is a good time to aim for. Maybe 1.5 seconds for FB and 3 for second could be good.

wow, you just opened my eyes that i need to work on first block.

 

[TDM]

wow, you just opened my eyes that i need to work on first block.

I half-guessed those numbers They're just estimates. But what are your splits?

 

[GuRoux]

I half-guessed those numbers They're just estimates. But what are your splits?

i think it's about this, can't really remember: 1.9 - 2.5 - 2.2 - 2.7

edit: actually, cmll is probably a little bit faster: 1.9 - 2.7 - 1.9 - 2.7

 

[TDM]

i think it's about this, can't really remember: 1.9 - 2.5 - 2.2 - 2.7

edit: actually, cmll is probably a little bit faster: 1.9 - 2.7 - 1.9 - 2.7

Yeah, I would've thought you could improve your FB a bit more then. 2.7 second SB is something like 8 TPS. With 6 TPS you can sub-1.5 FB if your blockbuilding's good.

 

[GuRoux]

Yeah, I would've thought you could improve your FB a bit more then. 2.7 second SB is something like 8 TPS. With 6 TPS you can sub-1.5 FB if your blockbuilding's good.

well, 2.7 seconds is not really 8 tps, if second block takes 20 moves, which it almost never does, that 7.4 tps. yeah, i'll work on FB, i think being more color neutral will help, about 1 second away with yellow on bottom.

edit: alex wrote this as his splits in the roux home thread a while back

FB: 1.6
SB: 2
CMLL: 1.5
LSE: 2.3

so it looks like my second block needs more improvement than my first block.

 

[TDM]

well, 2.7 seconds is not really 8 tps, if second block takes 20 moves, which it almost never does, that 7.4 tps. yeah, i'll work on FB, i think being more color neutral will help, about 1 second away with yellow on bottom.

edit: alex wrote this as his splits in the roux home thread a while back

FB: 1.6
SB: 2
CMLL: 1.5
LSE: 2.3

so it looks like my second block needs more improvement than my first block.

oh yeah, my second block is really inefficient, I forgot about that :fp
Being able to do yellow on D too is useful since you can then use any pair. It's also not that hard to switch to, so definitely practise that if you want to improve your FB.

Alex's splits are interesting. I would have thought he'd have a faster FB, but... FB is a pretty bad step. It's a bit like cross but worse. I'd say it's the worst part of Roux by far.

 

[Ross The Boss]

I think my first block is pretty slow. maybe like a high 2, low 3 seconds but im not sure. when im doing a bunch of one looks as fast as I can like 2x2, I can get like a 1.5 average, but never in a solve.
how do you all discover your splits? do you analyze video or do you time each step individually? the later seems like a very inaccurate way of doing it.

 

[TDM]

I think my first block is pretty slow. maybe like a high 2, low 3 seconds but im not sure. when im doing a bunch of one looks as fast as I can like 2x2, I can get like a 1.5 average, but never in a solve.
how do you all discover your splits? do you analyze video or do you time each step individually? the later seems like a very inaccurate way of doing it.

The first method is much more accurate. I can usually guess stuff like the entire F2B by glancing up at the timer when I finish it, but I don't do that in normal solves. Just when trying to get an estimate for splits. But yes, using a video is the best way to find them.

 

[GuRoux]

I think my first block is pretty slow. maybe like a high 2, low 3 seconds but im not sure. when im doing a bunch of one looks as fast as I can like 2x2, I can get like a 1.5 average, but never in a solve.
how do you all discover your splits? do you analyze video or do you time each step individually? the later seems like a very inaccurate way of doing it.

for first block just time first block.
for second block, time f2b and subtract with first block time.
for cmll, do f2b+cmll and subtract f2b time.
for lse, you average minus f2b+cmll.

edit: i guess there may be some error due to how long it takes to timer stop, so perhaps looking at a video might be better, but it is often hard to see when each step ends and the next one begins.

 

[2180161]

So, I know I said I was done with Roux, but one question in case it could help me be faster with it. Do you memorize the moves you are going to make for your first block, so you can look -ahead for your second block?

 

[cashis]

So, I know I said I was done with Roux, but one question in case it could help me be faster with it. Do you memorize the moves you are going to make for your first block, so you can look -ahead for your second block?

ye. jus like cross

 

[GuRoux]

Yeah, I would've thought you could improve your FB a bit more then. 2.7 second SB is something like 8 TPS. With 6 TPS you can sub-1.5 FB if your blockbuilding's good.

been practicing first block:

just got a 1.76 average of 100 for fixed first block, infinite inspection.

Spoiler

fixed first block (blue with white on bottom), scramble were done in random orientation of only first block solved cube.
Jun 4, 2015 3:40:42 PM - 4:17:09 PM

Mean: 1.78
Average: 1.76
Best time: 0.51
Median: 1.75
Worst time: 4.81
Standard deviation: 0.55

Best average of 5: 1.29
52-56 - 1.29 1.43 1.16 (1.60) (0.99)

Best average of 12: 1.51
45-56 - 1.51 1.26 1.79 (2.11) 1.81 1.47 1.80 1.29 1.43 1.16 1.60 (0.99)

1. 1.32 R2 U' B2 R2 F2 L2 U' F2 U2 B2 U R F2 U R2 B F' R' U' L' F L2
2. 1.96 R2 D2 B2 R2 U' L2 D R2 L2 D' R2 B' D R U' R D U2 F D' B U'
3. 1.70 D' U' R2 U L2 F2 L2 D2 R2 U' F2 L B' D' F2 U R2 F L2 B2 U2
4. 2.13 U2 B2 D2 B2 U R2 L2 U' F2 L2 U' B L F D2 L2 D L D' B2 F
5. 2.14 D2 F2 D' F2 L2 B2 L2 D' B2 R2 U2 B D' U2 L' B L U2 F U' L U2
6. 1.47 U' B2 L2 F2 D2 B2 U R2 D2 U B' L' B2 F2 L' D' F' D' U F2
7. 2.18 F2 D2 B2 F2 R2 U' L2 F2 D F2 L2 B' R' D' B U' L' B F' U B U2
8. 1.50 U R2 D B2 D R2 U' L2 B2 U R2 F D U2 F2 L' B' R2 B2 L2 D2 U'
9. 0.51 L2 F2 R2 L2 U' B2 D F2 L2 D' U L' B R' F2 D F' L' D' L F2 D2
10. 1.76 L2 U2 B2 R2 U' L2 D L2 U' R2 D L' D2 B L' D F2 L' B2 D B' U2
11. 1.81 R2 U R2 U' L2 B2 D F2 U L2 U2 R D' B F U' F2 R' D2 B R
12. 1.40 D' L2 D L2 B2 U' L2 U2 F2 U' B2 L U2 B U2 R' U R' L B2 R' U2
13. 1.74 D B2 D2 U B2 R2 D2 U' F2 L2 U2 L' F' R2 U' L D B F2 U2 L U2
14. 1.44 U R2 L2 U2 L2 B2 U B2 D' U L2 B' R' L' D F L U2 L B' R2
15. 1.38 U' B2 U2 F2 L2 D B2 U' R2 D' U B' U2 R D' L U' L U2 F2 U
16. 1.36 F2 R2 B2 D' F2 R2 U' B2 D' B2 U F U2 R' F' R D' U' F' L'
17. 2.11 R2 U L2 D B2 D F2 D L2 U' L2 B' L' F L U R' B L B' D U'
18. 1.65 R2 L2 D' R2 L2 D' R2 D' L2 B2 D' B' L' F' D' U' R D' R' B' R L2
19. 1.13 F2 R2 F2 R2 D' U2 R2 F2 D' B2 L2 B L D B L' B2 R' F2 R2 L' D'
20. 1.75 D R2 L2 D U2 L2 F2 U B2 U' R B' L D U2 B2 F' R2 F R'
21. 1.78 U' R2 D L2 B2 U R2 F2 D' U R F2 R2 F R' B' U2 L2 D R
22. 2.77 B2 U2 B2 L2 U' L2 U' B2 U2 L2 D2 L D' L2 U B' F' R B' D2 F U
23. 2.06 D2 R2 U' R2 L2 F2 U' B2 U2 R2 L2 F R U' L D L B F D2 F'
24. 1.93 B2 L2 B2 R2 U' R2 F2 L2 U B2 D' L' R2 D' U' R' B' L F U2 R' U'
25. 2.03 B2 F2 R2 D F2 U R2 B2 D2 L2 U' L' B2 D' B' R' F' D B2 L2 D2 U
26. 1.58 D' F2 R2 U L2 U' F2 U2 B L B U' B' R2 B2 D B L D2 U'
27. 1.50 R2 F2 R2 U' R2 F2 D2 R2 D B2 D2 L' D2 L D R' D' B R2 U L2 U2
28. 0.94 B2 D L2 U L2 U' R2 F2 U R2 D' L U' L' B' R D' F D B U2
29. 1.24 U' R2 B2 D R2 F2 U R2 F2 R2 U' R F L2 D B F' U' R' U F2
30. 2.09 B2 D' L2 B2 D2 L2 U R2 D' R2 L2 F' D R2 F D' R F L2 F2 L'
31. 1.57 R2 D' L2 D' L2 D2 R2 L2 D' R2 L2 F' R U F D L B2 R2 L' B2
32. 2.21 B2 U L2 U R2 D F2 R2 B2 R2 D B' L' B' U' L' F D' F2 D L2
33. 1.26 D' B2 F2 R2 D2 U' F2 R2 U2 L2 B' D R2 B2 F' R2 L' D2 U' B2 L'
34. 1.55 R2 B2 F2 U' R2 B2 D B2 D' B2 L2 B D2 U' F R F L U F D2
35. 1.75 B2 L2 U' R2 B2 L2 D B2 D L2 U' F R' B' L' F' R' D2 F R B U2
36. 1.51 U2 F2 L2 D' L2 B2 D' B2 U' R2 D' L' D U' R2 F U' R L2 F D'
37. 1.43 L2 D2 F2 R2 U2 L2 U' B2 D' B2 L' B2 L B L' F' D' L2 U' R U2
38. 1.68 B2 U2 L2 B2 F2 U L2 D' B2 U F' R' F' D2 B L' B2 U' B' D2
39. 4.81 R2 L2 U2 B2 U B2 D' F2 L2 U' L' F2 R B2 U B U2 F2 R2 B'
40. 1.85 R2 D' U2 R2 D2 R2 F2 D L2 B2 R2 B' L D' R U2 F R L2 D2 B2
41. 1.48 F2 U2 L2 D' L2 F2 L2 F2 U R2 F2 L U' B' F U' F2 D U2 F' L' U2
42. 1.69 F2 U B2 R2 F2 R2 F2 U B2 R2 L2 F' L B F D' B2 R' D2 R U'
43. 2.81 B2 U' B2 D' B2 U' L2 D R2 F2 D2 F L2 U' R B L D2 L2 U2 F R
44. 1.26 B2 D2 U L2 F2 U' F2 L2 F2 U2 R2 B' U2 R' L' F2 D B2 F' D' L'
45. 1.51 B2 F2 L2 D' B2 D2 R2 D U2 L' F2 L2 F' R U2 B2 D' B F2 L'
46. 1.26 B2 F2 D U2 L2 F2 L2 B2 U' B2 U' F R L2 B2 L U2 F L2 B2 U'
47. 1.79 U' F2 U2 L2 U' B2 D R2 U B2 L2 B R2 F2 R' D U2 B' U' B L' U
48. 2.11 D B2 R2 U' B2 D2 F2 R2 D' L2 B2 R' D' R' L' B' R D' B U' L U'
49. 1.81 R2 F2 R2 F2 U' B2 F2 L2 U' B2 D' F' D' F2 R D2 F2 D' F R B'
50. 1.47 U F2 D2 R2 F2 R2 D F2 D L2 U B' U F' L U B F' U' L D'
51. 1.80 L2 D R2 U' F2 U B2 U' B2 F2 U2 L B U2 F2 D B L2 U' F2 R'
52. 1.29 D B2 U' R2 U' R2 U B2 L2 U F2 L B F D' L' U R B U B2
53. 1.43 R2 D2 R2 U L2 F2 U' B2 U F2 L2 B' F2 D2 L D2 R' D' R L2 B
54. 1.16 U R2 F2 D' R2 F2 D' R2 D2 L2 F2 L' F L B' R U L' B' U2 B' U'
55. 1.60 U B2 U' F2 L2 D R2 L2 U B2 L2 F D2 U' R D2 F2 R2 F
56. 0.99 R2 F2 D' U2 B2 R2 D B2 R2 U2 L2 F' R2 L' D L B' R' L2 F L2
57. 1.75 R2 F2 U B2 U B2 D' F2 D2 R2 U' R F D' R L' D F R B R2 U2
58. 2.40 R2 F2 D' F2 D2 U' L2 D2 U' B2 L2 B' D' F U2 R' U2 B D2 U2 R2 U'
59. 2.40 B2 R2 U F2 U' R2 U' F2 U2 F2 U' L B' U' R2 D' B' L2 B2 D L2 U'
60. 1.62 B2 F2 U' L2 F2 D F2 L2 U L2 D R' D F D2 F2 L B2 F U L2 B'
61. 2.82 B2 F2 R2 U L2 D' U' F2 U R2 U' L B D2 F D' F' D' R D' U
62. 2.66 L2 F2 D' R2 U R2 U R2 U' F2 U F' D R' L' U R U' B D2
63. 2.26 F2 L2 D2 F2 U R2 D F2 U L2 F L' D U' L2 B U R L' D U
64. 1.00 L2 U2 L2 B2 U2 B2 D2 U B2 U R2 F U2 B2 L D2 L D B2 L' B F2
65. 2.88 R2 D2 L2 U2 L2 F2 R2 L2 U L2 U B D2 R' F U R' B L' U2 F2 D'
66. 2.27 R2 F2 L2 U2 B2 D B2 R2 B2 L2 D' B D' R D2 B U' L D U2 R'
67. 0.98 L2 B2 D F2 D R2 B2 U L2 U' B2 R L' F U B D' B D' F2 R' U2
68. 1.27 R2 U' L2 U R2 D' R2 U R2 L2 F2 L B U2 L F2 R' B' D U2 R
69. 2.52 L2 U2 B2 U R2 U2 B2 U2 B2 L2 D2 B L' D' R F U' L U2 L D2
70. 1.46 D B2 D R2 B2 L2 D F2 L2 U L2 B' R' B D2 B2 F' R2 B2 D' R'
71. 1.94 B2 U' B2 U R2 F2 L2 F2 D R2 D2 B R F' D R2 F2 L' F2 U' B2
72. 1.33 U R2 D2 B2 F2 D' L2 U R2 L2 B D' R U F2 D U B L'
73. 1.97 L2 U' B2 F2 R2 U B2 R2 D2 F2 D' R' B' R2 L2 F2 D' B L2 U F2 R
74. 1.81 L2 F2 D2 B2 L2 F2 D B2 R2 L2 U B' F' D' F2 L B2 R' F R2 L' B2
75. 1.47 U2 F2 R2 U' F2 U' F2 D F2 L2 D2 F' L F' R' B' R B D U F
76. 2.01 B2 D2 F2 D L2 U B2 U B2 U R' D' B L B2 D2 L' F2 L D' U'
77. 2.17 F2 L2 D' U2 R2 F2 D' F2 L2 B2 D2 R D B2 F D F L' B' D U L
78. 1.55 L2 D' R2 D' B2 L2 F2 R2 U L2 U' L' F' L D' B' L' U B' R2 F'
79. 2.84 D B2 F2 U' F2 U' F2 U R2 B2 F2 R' B' R U' B2 F' U B R U2
80. 1.33 B2 L2 B2 U2 B2 D' R2 B2 F2 R2 L2 B' U R' D' R U' L' U' F2 U
81. 1.24 U L2 B2 D' R2 U2 R2 D' L2 F2 R2 F U' L D2 B' D F L' D2 U
82. 2.04 F2 U2 B2 D' F2 D F2 U' R2 B2 R2 F' L B D2 U R2 L F2 R' F2 D'
83. 2.21 D' U' F2 D2 F2 L2 F2 U2 R2 F2 U' L' F' D L2 D U R' U' F' L2 U2
84. 1.47 D2 F2 L2 U' R2 B2 U2 B2 D' F2 U' R' L' D' U' B' D2 F U F U
85. 1.77 U' R2 D R2 B2 D F2 U F2 L2 U B R' D' L' D F U' R' B2 D
86. 1.80 D2 R2 D' F2 D' R2 F2 R2 D2 B2 U F U' R' B' R' D L' F U' R L
87. 1.79 L2 U2 B2 D' R2 F2 R2 D U' R2 U' R' L' D2 U' B' D F2 L2 D' F2 U2
88. 1.77 R2 B2 R2 U' R2 D' U L2 F2 U2 L' F R' B' R' U' B L2 D' F' U'
89. 1.67 U' F2 U' R2 B2 F2 D2 B2 U' R2 D' B L' B' U' B D R B D F' U'
90. 2.30 F2 R2 U2 L2 U L2 U2 F2 R2 U2 L2 F R F L' D' B F L B' R' U'
91. 1.67 L2 F2 D' F2 U2 B2 U' L2 U' R2 U2 R D' B2 U' B U R U B2 F D
92. 1.16 U' F2 R2 U2 R2 U' F2 R2 D' B2 F2 R' D' R D2 R' D' U2 R2 U2 F'
93. 2.29 D B2 U2 L2 D' B2 L2 D' R2 D' U B U F U' B' U2 B R2 L F D'
94. 1.81 U R2 D2 F2 U' R2 D' F2 U' F2 D' L' B2 D F U' R F L2 B U'
95. 2.07 U L2 D' L2 B2 D F2 D2 R2 F2 D' R' B F2 D2 L2 D F D2 F' D2 U
96. 2.40 D' B2 U R2 U2 F2 U2 B2 L2 U2 R' U F D L' U B' L B U2 B U
97. 1.41 B2 U' R2 U F2 L2 D F2 U2 F2 U B' R2 L F R' B2 U' L2 F2 D'
98. 1.92 U R2 L2 D2 F2 U' F2 R2 F2 R2 L2 F' D' L' B' F' U' R L2 U' B'
99. 1.40 B2 D F2 R2 D R2 U' L2 D' R2 D' B F2 U2 L F D2 L' D2 R' L
100. 1.51 F2 R2 D' R2 U B2 D' R2 L2 B2 U' L' U R2 D2 L2 F' R B U' R'

 

[theROUXbiksCube]

OMG Dat sub 1 FB
can you reconstruct some of these?!
What were the average movecounts?

 

[GuRoux]

OMG Dat sub 1 FB
can you reconstruct some of these?!
What were the average movecounts?

i bet the average movecount was pretty high, probably around 8.

i kind of scrambled them in random orientations so it'll be hard to reconstruct many of them, i figured out what the .51 was:

orient white on bottom and blue and left (most of them at the end was this orientation i think)
scramble: 9. 0.51 L2 F2 R2 L2 U' B2 D F2 L2 D' U L' B R' F2 D F' L' D' L F2 D2
don't know how i did this so fast
solution: z x' U' r f' D'

 

[PenguinsDontFly]

i bet the average movecount was pretty high, probably around 8.

i kind of scrambled them in random orientations so it'll be hard to reconstruct many of them, i figured out what the .51 was:

orient white on bottom and blue and left (most of them at the end was this orientation i think)
scramble: 9. 0.51 L2 F2 R2 L2 U' B2 D F2 L2 D' U L' B R' F2 D F' L' D' L F2 D2
don't know how i did this so fast
solution: z x' U' r f' D'

8 is not high. 6 tps=1.3 seconds so its fine. Turn faster.

 

[GuRoux]

8 is not high. 6 tps=1.3 seconds so its fine. Turn faster.

well it's hard to turn fast in fb, especially if you are trying to be efficient, and there's timer start and timer stop which slows down a little.

 

[PenguinsDontFly]

well it's hard to turn fast in fb, especially if you are trying to be efficient, and there's timer start and timer stop which slows down a little.

I guess thats true. It sucks that FB can start with any turn including B' or M (which suck after pickup).

 

[GuRoux]

I guess thats true. It sucks that FB can start with any turn including B' or M (which suck after pickup).

well, i wasn't really picking up, but for B' start with the cube rotated x' and you should be fine. M is just bad.

 

[2180161]

Is my first block fairly efficient with this scramble?
D' R2 L' F2 L2 U2L2 D L2 U2 B2 L' F' R2 U' L F D U2 B2 R2

FB:z2 y U' R' U F'