[Help Thread] Roux Discussion and Help

[supercavitation]

i think roux actually has less regrips than zz usually. 1-2 regrips for first two block and 0-2 regrips for cmll and 1 regrip for LSE.

ZZ usually takes me 1-2 regrips for EOLine, sometimes a regrip for F2L, but not always, no regrips for OLL if I remember the right ones (I know RU ones, but I forget them sometimes) and a regrip for PLL or a regrip for COLL and no regrips for EPLL.

 

[GuRoux]

ZZ usually takes me 1-2 regrips for EOLine, sometimes a regrip for F2L, but not always, no regrips for OLL if I remember the right ones (I know RU ones, but I forget them sometimes) and a regrip for PLL or a regrip for COLL and no regrips for EPLL.

isn't there always regrips in f2l, i would think on average around 3

 

[rybaby]

isn't there always regrips in f2l, i would think on average around 3

You should just try it out like I'm doing to see how it is. The regrips are usually pretty minor-- since going from RU to LU just requires a z rotation, where you can keep you thumb and middle finger in the same spot as the cube just spins a bit. Honestly, I don't think Roux is as good as ZZ for OH, as much as we all wish it were. First block is full of regrips and second block has lots of awkward moves like wide turns and slices, then CMLL algs can have F and L moves in addition to RU, which makes regrips necessary. LSE is okay, I guess. Roux just seems much harder to master for OH.

 

[GuRoux]

You should just try it out like I'm doing to see how it is. The regrips are usually pretty minor-- since going from RU to LU just requires a z rotation, where you can keep you thumb and middle finger in the same spot as the cube just spins a bit. Honestly, I don't think Roux is as good as ZZ for OH, as much as we all wish it were. First block is full of regrips and second block has lots of awkward moves like wide turns and slices, then CMLL algs can have F and L moves in addition to RU, which makes regrips necessary. LSE is okay, I guess. Roux just seems much harder to master for OH.

yeah, you really have to do slow solves to find out the best ways to solve certain cases. for first block i usually only have one regrip, and lots of times that grip is the same grip i use for second block, so in a way i cancelled it. the only hard thing are B moves, so try to avoid them. for second block it's all about lookahead and slow turning. i try to pick the solution with the least slice moves, wide moves i'm not too afraid of. CMLL just find better algs, still need to do that. most of the regrips are going to be z rotations anyway, sometimes not for CMLL and FB but i'm sure if i can find easy first blocks with only two starting blocks, it can't be that hard when you have 8.

 

[TDM]

I know how to do ZZ and can get like 35 with it OH, compared to sub 25 with Roux. Not sure if I want to switch. Table abuse is fun for Roux but it seems easier to turn fast in ZZ because it's just RUL. Maybe I'll try it out more after my comp in January. I assume this is what you do?

Yes, I use ZZ for OH. Because I don't practise OH as much, I'm not as good as looking ahead with a different method, but if you practised OH then that wouldn't be a problem. I can still look ahead when going quite fast, but not at max TPS. I have done OH Roux before and I agree, table abuse is fun, but like you say I think ZZ is faster. Even if you don't completely switch to it, definitely practise with it because you can get fast quite easily. After switching from CFOP to ZZ for OH my times went from ~29 to 32-33, but then quickly dropped and within a week or so I averaged 25-26.

 

[supercavitation]

isn't there always regrips in f2l, i would think on average around 3

I'm not sure I ever go above two, and I only really hit two when I've messed up. I can almost always execute a random L move for OH simply by moving the cube a little bit extra during the move before it (though L' moves are a bit harder), so I guess I regrip somewhat, but none of my fingers leave the cube. I usually do the full regrip only in the case that I finish the right block before the left block, since it is easier to do them with the full regrip.

 

[GuRoux]

I'm not sure I ever go above two, and I only really hit two when I've messed up. I can almost always execute a random L move for OH simply by moving the cube a little bit extra during the move before it (though L' moves are a bit harder), so I guess I regrip somewhat, but none of my fingers leave the cube. I usually do the full regrip only in the case that I finish the right block before the left block, since it is easier to do them with the full regrip.

i was considering z rotations as regrips, but i guess you don't actually regrip, so then roux has 0-1 regrips during F2B, 0-1 regrip for CMLL and 0 for LSE.

 

[supercavitation]

i was considering z rotations as regrips, but i guess you don't actually regrip, so then roux has 0-1 regrips during F2B, 0-1 regrip for CMLL and 0 for LSE.

It's a consequence of using a Weilong v1 or Gans 357 alternately for OH with relatively small hands.

I'm probably doing OH Roux horribly wrong, because I wind up doing significantly more regrips: 1-2 for FB, occasionally 1 in SB (another consequence of having relatively small hands, that would probably go away with practice, an overshot Rw forces a regrip), 1 for CMLL (same as COLL or PLL, in most cases it requires a regrip, so I assume it will), and then about half a regrip (it's really fast, but it does require removal of my fingers from the cube) for LSE. So I wind up with about the same number of regrips either way, with ZZ being more comfortable for me, since I by far prefer L turns to Rw turns for OH, since Rw turns force me to regrip a little bit more than L turns. Neither is a real regrip, but there's more pre-Rw motion.

I think that in the end it, like 2H, just boils down to practice and personal preference.

 

[rybaby]

I think a lot of CMLLs for me require at least 2 regrips because of F/B moves (and L to an extent). Every time I want to do F, I have to do an x rotation first, then do the move, then do x'. Not 100 percent avoidable with other methods, but in ZZ all COLLs can be RUL which is easy.

 

[GuRoux]

I think a lot of CMLLs for me require at least 2 regrips because of F/B moves (and L to an extent). Every time I want to do F, I have to do an x rotation first, then do the move, then do x'. Not 100 percent avoidable with other methods, but in ZZ all COLLs can be RUL which is easy.

got a 2.6 average for all of CMLL OH versus 1.4 for CMLL 2H. probably should find better algs for 1/4 of them.

 

[maps600]

yeah, you really have to do slow solves to find out the best ways to solve certain cases. for first block i usually only have one regrip, and lots of times that grip is the same grip i use for second block, so in a way i cancelled it. the only hard thing are B moves, so try to avoid them. for second block it's all about lookahead and slow turning. i try to pick the solution with the least slice moves, wide moves i'm not too afraid of. CMLL just find better algs, still need to do that. most of the regrips are going to be z rotations anyway, sometimes not for CMLL and FB but i'm sure if i can find easy first blocks with only two starting blocks, it can't be that hard when you have 8.

For B and B' I do an f and then z sort of thing. For f I push UL edge and for f' I pull it from the top. It works surprisingly well.

 

[GuRoux]

For B and B' I do an f and then z sort of thing. For f I push UL edge and for f' I pull it from the top. It works surprisingly well.

yeah, but after the f you have to cube rotate, unless you accounted for it earlier, which you didn't.

 

[maps600]

yeah, but after the f you have to cube rotate, unless you accounted for it earlier, which you didn't.

Yeah I did say f and then z rotation but I guess it was unclear. An example is a r B' insert for first block... I would do something like r while doing a z rotation then f'

 

[GuRoux]

Yeah I did say f and then z rotation but I guess it was unclear. An example is a r B' insert for first block... I would do something like r while doing a z rotation then f'

oops, reading to fast. i'd do L U'

i just realized that most people use lefty OH and won't understand that alg. but apon looking at it more it's still a good fingertrick

 

[maps600]

oops, reading to fast. i'd do L U'

i just realized that most people use lefty OH and won't understand that alg. but apon looking at it more it's still a good fingertrick

Wait you do OH with your right hand? How do you do second block?

 

[GuRoux]

Wait you do OH with your right hand? How do you do second block?

without the M slice.

 

[imacubedude]

Is it worth being full cn? I am not so su4e that it is that worthit. I figured out that i was doing blocks completely wrong and it takes me forever to plan out the first block. And it is not that effecient either...

 

[pewpewrawr]

Is it worth being full cn? I am not so su4e that it is that worthit. I figured out that i was doing blocks completely wrong and it takes me forever to plan out the first block. And it is not that effecient either...

no i don't think it's worth it. pick a neutrality that has 4-8 possible first blocks. imo 4 is just enough, less than that and it becomes a bit of a chore, more than 8 really isn't worth it. just try different stuff and see what you like.

 

[GuRoux]

no i don't think it's worth it. pick a neutrality that has 4-8 possible first blocks. imo 4 is just enough, less than that and it becomes a bit of a chore, more than 8 really isn't worth it. just try different stuff and see what you like.

2-8

 

[rowan]

Is it worth being full cn? I am not so su4e that it is that worthit. I figured out that i was doing blocks completely wrong and it takes me forever to plan out the first block. And it is not that effecient either...

I talked a little bit about inspecting for first block while being CN in this post. Inspection in the beginning is not efficient, I wouldn't worry about this. I used to take two or more minutes to inspect for first block, eventually you get better at recognizing which blocks to pursue.