ZZ speedcubing method

[Matthew]

@ Matthew, nice to hear! but you might be confusing ZB last layer and ZZ-B last layer. ( al the simular sounding stuff )

Yes I know - I distinguish them... ZZLL (variation B) is my goal for few next months...

@Swordsman Kirby - ZBLL has exactly 493 algs (+ 21 PLL's)

 

[Swordsman Kirby]

@ Matthew, nice to hear! but you might be confusing ZB last layer and ZZ-B last layer. ( al the simular sounding stuff )

Yes I know - I distinguish them... ZZLL (variation B) is my goal for few next months...

@Swordsman Kirby - ZBLL has exactly 493 algs (+ 21 PLL's)

Huh? It only has 177, I have no idea what you're talking about. If you're including symmetries and inverses, you're being silly.

 

[Matthew]

@ Matthew, nice to hear! but you might be confusing ZB last layer and ZZ-B last layer. ( al the simular sounding stuff )

Yes I know - I distinguish them... ZZLL (variation B) is my goal for few next months...

@Swordsman Kirby - ZBLL has exactly 493 algs (+ 21 PLL's)

Huh? It only has 177, I have no idea what you're talking about. If you're including symmetries and inverses, you're being silly.

Ok - 1) my fault - oc I have talked about ~500 & 160 cases

2) so... I like to see that you learn your 177 algs, recognize and do each of them sub2s... I can engage that you don't have to learn symmetries.. but inversions - maybe I'm too weak... (too silly)

I don't want to argue with you.. I did a mistake and I come clean it... but transform the main alg in mind to his inversion symmetry is difficult

 

[yurivish]

I decided to switch when I saw this thread. My best average (which I'd only gotten twice or so) with Fridrich at the time was around 25.5 seconds.

Now, My best with ZZ is 23.99. I still have some trouble with the EOLine; I don't look for the 2 pieces except for when I have the really easy orientation cases.

I'm using COLL | Anti/sune + EPLL | PLL for the last layer. I'm currently fooling around with the "2 pairs" Heise thing, but I doubt that will go anywhere.

 

[Swordsman Kirby]

Ok - 1) my fault - oc I have talked about ~500 & 160 cases

2) so... I like to see that you learn your 177 algs, recognize and do each of them sub2s... I can engage that you don't have to learn symmetries.. but inversions - maybe I'm too weak... (too silly)

I don't want to argue with you.. I did a mistake and I come clean it... but transform the main alg in mind to his inversion symmetry is difficult

Inversion is quite tricky at first, but it gets better as you go along.

 

[ThePizzaGuy92]

does anyone know how far Jason Baum has gotten on ZB?

 

[yurivish]

Ok - 1) my fault - oc I have talked about ~500 & 160 cases

2) so... I like to see that you learn your 177 algs, recognize and do each of them sub2s... I can engage that you don't have to learn symmetries.. but inversions - maybe I'm too weak... (too silly)

I don't want to argue with you.. I did a mistake and I come clean it... but transform the main alg in mind to his inversion symmetry is difficult

Inversion is quite tricky at first, but it gets better as you go along.

You can really invert algorithms on the fly? Like, 8-14 move long ones?

o_O

 

[McWizzle94]

Ok - 1) my fault - oc I have talked about ~500 & 160 cases

2) so... I like to see that you learn your 177 algs, recognize and do each of them sub2s... I can engage that you don't have to learn symmetries.. but inversions - maybe I'm too weak... (too silly)

I don't want to argue with you.. I did a mistake and I come clean it... but transform the main alg in mind to his inversion symmetry is difficult

Inversion is quite tricky at first, but it gets better as you go along.

You can really invert algorithms on the fly? Like, 8-14 move long ones?

o_O

http://speedcubing.com/chris/algconversion.html

 

[yurivish]

Ok - 1) my fault - oc I have talked about ~500 & 160 cases

2) so... I like to see that you learn your 177 algs, recognize and do each of them sub2s... I can engage that you don't have to learn symmetries.. but inversions - maybe I'm too weak... (too silly)

I don't want to argue with you.. I did a mistake and I come clean it... but transform the main alg in mind to his inversion symmetry is difficult

Inversion is quite tricky at first, but it gets better as you go along.

You can really invert algorithms on the fly? Like, 8-14 move long ones?

o_O

http://speedcubing.com/chris/algconversion.html

I know how to do it. I just think that it's a pretty complex process to go through every time you run into a case that's the inverse of an algorithm you already know. You have to invert the algorithm during the solve, which is what I was asking about.

 

[MistArts]

Ok - 1) my fault - oc I have talked about ~500 & 160 cases

2) so... I like to see that you learn your 177 algs, recognize and do each of them sub2s... I can engage that you don't have to learn symmetries.. but inversions - maybe I'm too weak... (too silly)

I don't want to argue with you.. I did a mistake and I come clean it... but transform the main alg in mind to his inversion symmetry is difficult

Inversion is quite tricky at first, but it gets better as you go along.

You can really invert algorithms on the fly? Like, 8-14 move long ones?

o_O

http://speedcubing.com/chris/algconversion.html

I know how to do it. I just think that it's a pretty complex process to go through every time you run into a case that's the inverse of an algorithm you already know. You have to invert the algorithm during the solve, which is what I was asking about.

Practice a few algs with inversion and then once you know how differently it feels, then you can apply the "feel" to another algorithm.

 

[ScottKidder]

Just trying out ZZ today and I'm getting much better at seeing EO and several times seen one piece of the line i.e Doing F' instead of F to get a line edge in D layer. I looked into phasing a little bit just to understand it but as I'm already learning MGLS just started using MGLS to finish off F2L and I really like it. It could also be used very well with EJF2L but I haven't done much with it. Just wanted to say thanks for the guide

 

[DavidWoner]

does anyone know how far Jason Baum has gotten on ZB?

the last I heard he knew all of ZBF2L, and i think 30-something% of ZBLL

 

[Zeroknight]

So any updates with anyone on anything? Statistics, improvements, etc?

The method I'm trying is:

EOLine- 6 moves
Blockbuilding/F2L- 24 moves
4-move setup: lol
F2LL (aka Winter Variantion)- 12 moves
PLL -12 moves

Total:58, but I probably calculated something wrong....

How come this was only touced on briefly? People keep asking for something like it, but I guess they keep forgetting about it? Anyway, setting up for F2LL usually takes about four more moves than normal, (connect the CE pair, then move it to UF and UFL) but I don't have to OLL. Ever. Is case recognition really that bad? It doesn't seem like it with only ~20 odd cases?

PS: Are the videos that you guys made on youtube yet? (I don't know. I just assumed that you guys would update when they were done...I just probably need to find them myself)


And yes, I am bumping a year old thread. But there is just cause.

EDIT: If you're going to post about bumping an old thread, please don't even bother posting...

 

[Johannes91]

EOLine- 6 moves
Blockbuilding/F2L- 24 moves

Some optimal averages:

EOLine without color neutrality - 6.1265 moves
Left 1x2x3 block using <U,R,L> - 9.6922 moves
Right 1x2x3 block using <U,R> - 10.0254 moves

That would give an average of 25.8441 moves for F2L (and EOLL). Of course, that might not be at all close to what people do; seeing optimal move sequences of 10+ moves isn't really easy, and, on the other hand, we don't need to use so fixed steps.

 

[ostracod]

I have a somewhat random question: Is it more efficient (for human solving) to solve the left and right 1x2x3 blocks at the same time, instead of separately? That means building parts of each block as you see convenient moves; I've been doing ZZ this way for a few weeks, and I find it to be a good technique. I first build a 2x2 block on either side, then I might start the block on the other side, or finish the first block if it's easier. Then I finish both blocks or build the second 2x3 block to finish the F2L.

This strategy makes finding potential c/e pairs much easier. I don't have to search for corners and edges in a particular block; Instead, I find the EASIEST to make c/e pair, which usually involves picking a corner and edge in the U layer.

...Do other people do this? >_>

 

[yurivish]

I have a somewhat random question: Is it more efficient (for human solving) to solve the left and right 1x2x3 blocks at the same time, instead of separately? That means building parts of each block as you see convenient moves; I've been doing ZZ this way for a few weeks, and I find it to be a good technique. I first build a 2x2 block on either side, then I might start the block on the other side, or finish the first block if it's easier. Then I finish both blocks or build the second 2x3 block to finish the F2L.

This strategy makes finding potential c/e pairs much easier. I don't have to search for corners and edges in a particular block; Instead, I find the EASIEST to make c/e pair, which usually involves picking a corner and edge in the U layer.

...Do other people do this? >_>

I do it that way. I currently average around 18.

 

[Lord Voldemort]

I started on Sunday, I'm almost sub-40 now.
A few tips would be appreciated, so if I were to post a scramble and a solve, would any of you experienced ZZers be willing to maybe post your solution for the scramble, and stuff like that?
(I have my cube "taken away" from me right now, so....)

I'm not too great at blockbuilding, and my EOline is still around 10 seconds.

Also one more question.
When making EOline, do you always may the same colors?
Like on Orange/Red/White EOline instead of adding a Blue/Green option?
I think only doing one would be beneficial, since then you could always tell which edges are flipped, right?

 

[a small kitten]

If you post a scramble I can definitely give you my solution. I always use blue front yellow up because then I can easily tell edge orientation. In addition, I also know where each piece is and where they belong when I do the F2l.

 

[Lord Voldemort]

Ok, thanks a lot.
I'm a Fridrich convert, so I've been kind of thinking of it like a cross, always using white on the bottom, but using any color for the front and back. Do you recommend always using something like green in front, or should I keep blue open too? I know it doesn't make too much of a difference either way, but yeah.

btw, how fast are you at ZZ?

 

[a small kitten]

I'm a Fridrich convert too and I currently average very low 20s. I sub 20ed 10/12 two weeks ago and I can somewhat consistently sub 20 3 of 5s. It is definitely improving though since I am speeding up my EO line and learning COLL.

I guess using green front if you use blue front is ok. I don't think it boasts that much of an advantage, but sure. It won't hurt. I usually stay away from it though. However, don't trust me 100% on this. Get some more opinions.