[Help Thread] ZZ method / EOLine Discussion

[1001010101001]

What do you avg with Roux, and why are you thinking about switching?

Because 2-gen RU seems better to me when I do OH than MU.I average 35 seconds

 

[WombatWarrior17]

Because 2-gen RU seems better to me when I do OH than MU.

It is, BUT you can still get very fast with Roux OH.

 

[PapaSmurf]

I know full PLL and most of COLL (everything but Sune and Anti-Sune), and I avg 26 OH.

Ohhhhhhhh. So that’s good. What do you average 2H? And the great ergonomics for OH is kinda true. But so is OH COLL and EPLL. I guess you might as well go for CT, but it’s hard to improve it, short of going for zz-c which isn’t very well tested at all, but you might as well go for it.

 

[WombatWarrior17]

What do you average 2H?

About 19 I think, I don't practice 2H that much.

 

[PapaSmurf]

That’s quite slow to say you average 26 OH. You’re kinda like Phil Yu. And to @1001010101001, use whatever you use for 2H. Kian Mansour said that OH should be as similar to 2H as possible, and I agree. If you use roux for 2H, use it for OH. If you want to switch to ZZ for OH, switch for 2H. I prefer ZZ to roux, but that’s just my preference. You choose what you want.

 

[WombatWarrior17]

That’s quite slow to say you average 26 OH. You’re kinda like Phil Yu.

That's because I've barely practiced 2H since I switched.

 

[Y2k1]

@WombatWarrior17 Just my 2 cents, I learned (and forgotten) full ttll, and tbh the ergonomics for most of the algs are not much better than zbll algs (and 2gll has really great oh ergonomics).
I am sub 17 oh and sub 12 2h with coll and 20 zblls. I think getting eoline sub 3 and f2l block building down is more important for oh.

 

[WombatWarrior17]

@WombatWarrior17 Just my 2 cents, I learned (and forgotten) full ttll, and tbh the ergonomics for most of the algs are not much better than zbll algs (and 2gll has really great oh ergonomics).
I am sub 17 oh and sub 12 2h with coll and 20 zblls. I think getting eoline sub 3 and f2l block building down is more important for oh.

Thanks for your input! I think I'm going to stick with CT for now, if I learn it and decide I don't like it then I will do what you said.
I still am working on F2L and EOline right now.

 

[Duncan Bannon]

Is ZZ viable for big cubes, do to the fact that you have to recognize "bad" edges?

 

[PapaSmurf]

Yes. It takes about ~1 second more to identify all the bad edges than cross, although it’s not worth it on 6x6, and on 4x4 I use a zz modified version of yau.

 

[WombatWarrior17]

Yes. It takes about ~1 second more to identify all the bad edges than cross, although it’s not worth it on 6x6, and on 4x4 I use a zz modified version of yau.

What is it called? I would love to try it out.

 

[PapaSmurf]

It’s not called anything (yet) and I’ve mentioned it on a couple of speedsolving posts somewhere. I’ll give a quick overview:

1. L and R centres.
2. “Solve” (place on L orientated) 3 out of 4 of these: LD edge, a line edge, 2 other edges. I normally do 2 other edges and one of the others.
3. Centres yau style (you had a pseudo yau cross already built).
4. Solve the last of the 4 edges that you haven’t done for step 2 like the last cross edge on yau.
5. Do a z’ and using 4-2-3 pair the rest of the edges (like in yau).
6. Solve the line without messing up the other 3 orientated edges on L.
7. Do a y so that your line is on L and R and the 3 other edges are on BD. Do eo Petrus style. Alternatively, you can do LEOR style eo+line to merge 6 and 7.
8. ZZF2L
9 COLL
10. Parity+EPLL.

If you want me to go through in more detail, just dm me.

 

[macncheese]

I need help.
I'm learning zz ct and I never get of the ttlls.

And what does peusuedo(?) 2 gen mean

 

[Thom S.]

I need help.
I'm learning zz ct and I never get of the ttlls.

And what does peusuedo(?) 2 gen mean

I need help.
I don't understand your first Question.
Pseudo means "not really" or "non-genuine". In this case the algorithm is not really 2-gen because you need either a rotation or an ADF in order to make it 2-gen. If you were to exclude the D/y at the start they'd become 2-gen

 

[PapaSmurf]

If you wanna get fast, zz-ct is kinda not the best. You’d probably want to learn zz-b. Or some cpls and 2gll, although zz-b is probably better. Then the best is zz-a. That’s undisputed.

 

[macncheese]

If you wanna get fast, zz-ct is kinda not the best. You’d probably want to learn zz-b. Or some cpls and 2gll, although zz-b is probably better. Then the best is zz-a. That’s undisputed.

Did some research. Seems like you're right

I can't find a tutorial for it though. What are the steps anyway?

 

[PapaSmurf]

For ZZ-B? Steps are phasing (https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/phasing-explained-zz-b.14501/) and ZZLL. You can find the algs on this PDF:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5wWQGM9R38gMG9SSi1Jc1VHdk0/view?pref=2&pli=1
You’ll have to distinguish between the cases that you have to learn, but it’s not too hard to see which ones have opposite edges opposite and not.

For ZZ-A it’s just zbll straight up.

For ZZ-D it’s cpls (https://autoandblazesalgdb.weebly.com/algorithms19.html) then 2gll, which you can again find on that zbll doc I linked above. They’re the ones where the corners are already permuted. If you want any help understanding that, just ask.

 

[macncheese]

I'm using zz-a now. A few questions:

How do I improve the transition between eoline to first two layers?

What is a good split up for a solver aiming for sub 40?

 

[PapaSmurf]

Try and plan out eoline fully in inspection. It will take some getting used to, then once you can do that try looking for your first couple of pieces while solving eoline. And for splits, with a bit of practise eoline and f2l should be doable in sub 25, then you'll have 15 seconds for ll, but it shouldn't take that long.

 

[macncheese]

Thanks