[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

[porkynator]

I don't know Sneyder method very well - there isn't so much documentation about it - but one thing I remember is that he claims it's better to orient and permute edges at the same time; I'm a fan of pre-orienting edges instead
That idea is kinda similar to tripod actually

 

[mDiPalma]

i don't think he even really uses ZZ-rainbow anymore, i think he went back to COLL+EPLL or something. that idea you bring up is mildly intriguing though

also your variation strangely sounds kinda like waht Snyder v2 is....i think? well not quite like it, but it sounded kinda similar lol.

1. ZZ-d is flawed because <RUL>and <RUD> are faster and more efficient than <RU>. Especially when you have to invest extra moves to make the solution <RU>.

2. Porkynator's variant is like Tripod with EO. But there would probably be more distinct cases than ZBLL because your last CE pair could be in any slot.

What might be better is to solve zzf2l-1 + 2x3x1 block on the top. That leaves only 3 corners and 2 edges, which would make the final algorithm a simple commutator 50% of the time (which I'm sure Porky would very much appreciate.)

 

[SAICubed]

What might be better is to solve zzf2l-1 + 2x3x1 block on the top. That leaves only 3 corners and 2 edges, which would make the final algorithm a simple commutator 50% of the time (which I'm sure Porky would very much appreciate.)

This seems like a good idea i will do some looking into on this.

 

[mDiPalma]

but do you have any idea how hard/inefficient it is to build a 3x2x1 with only 2 sides to work with (one of which only capable of doing single, repeated, quarter-turns back and forth)?

Just use zbll.

 

[SAICubed]

but do you have any idea how hard/inefficient it is to build a 3x2x1 with only 2 sides to work with (one of which only capable of doing single, repeated, quarter-turns back and forth)?

Just use zbll.

Yeah good point, i didn't even think of that.

 

[uvafan]

Walkthrough solves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-aEKUDSwOk

 

[A Leman]

What might be better is to solve zzf2l-1 + 2x3x1 block on the top. That leaves only 3 corners and 2 edges, which would make the final algorithm a simple commutator 50% of the time (which I'm sure Porky would very much appreciate.)

The main problem with methods that finish with commutators most of the time is that you have to think more to reduce to a commutator to avoid parity, but you still sometimes get corners twists which destroy your movecount. At least that is my experience with Heise.

 

[Petro Leum]

hey fellow ZZers,

so, currently, i average 19 seconds onehanded with huge inconstancy (sometimes i get 14,15 and 16 and between them some 20s, up to 25!) i wanna change that and practice a lot the last days.
Anyway, i just did 3 separate avg50s for the three steps EOLine, ZZF2L and LL (COLL+EPLL, Niklas+Sunes for Sune cases, some ZBLL).
EOLine: avg50: 3.99 (σ = 0.51)
ZZF2L: avg50: 7.77 (σ = 1.06)
LL: avg50: 5.93 (σ = 1.08)
yeah. I tried to do normal EOLines (tried to influence F2L like i do normally, although i didnt finish the solve), normal ZZF2L also with LL influence and i also included all the recognition in my LL times.

What do you i think should be focussing my practice on? why am i so inconstant? what can i do to reach the sum of my average steps (17,69)?

Thanks in advance!

 

[RV]

D2 F U2 F2 R2 F R2 D2 B U2 B' L' B2 F' L' B R' F2 U' R U2

x2 L R U D' F' D L2 D //EOL (8,8)
R' U R2 U2 R U' R2' U R // RIGHT (9,17)
L' U2 L2 U' L' U2 L U' L' U2 L // LEFT (11,28)
U2 F R U' R' U R U2 R' U' R U R' U' F' // COLL EPLL SKIP WHAT?(15,43)
View at alg.garron.us

15.43

lol those EPLL skips too good

What is EPLL skip?

 

[aznanimedude]

inconsistency best guess would be random pauses between steps?

What is EPLL skip?

EPLL skip is basically, PLL skip, after i did my COLL, edges were solved as well so i was done

 

[Petro Leum]

inconsistency best guess would be random pauses between steps?

thats my guess as well, onyl thing to explain it. i will probably make a solve video and post it.
Or maybe im just having huge problems keeping up my lookahead, because my head is full of f***.... i had this problem once with 2h, and i was doing really good and really bad solves by turns, because after a good solve i was just "thinking" too much. :/

what do you guys think of my splits? are they okay,or is anything way too bad for my solving speed?

 

[CheesePuffs]

What are all these x/7 things I see in signatures of many ZZ solvers?

 

[mDiPalma]

yo, I've had an idea for a different ZZ-4x4 approach.

1) left/right centers.
2) solve and orient 6 dedges (2 line pieces+ 4 random), storing them in LB, LD, LF, RB, RD, & RF (try to force line pieces to opposite sides).
3) solve remaining centers with r/l-slice and U moves (easy).
4) place eoline (3 move max).
4) eopair remaining 6 edges as in Z4 (3 looks).
5) zzf2l+parities
6) LL

why is it bad?

 

[nickvu2]

Sounds cool...how do your times compare to your main 4x4 method?

 

[Petro Leum]

yo, I've had an idea for a different ZZ-4x4 approach.

1) left/right centers.
2) solve and orient 6 dedges (2 line pieces+ 4 random), storing them in LB, LD, LF, RB, RD, & RF (try to force line pieces to opposite sides).
3) solve remaining centers with r/l-slice and U moves (easy).
4) place eoline (3 move max).
4) eopair remaining 6 edges as in Z4 (3 looks).
5) zzf2l+parities
6) LL

why is it bad?

had the same idea once,just that i would look on the cube a y or y' from my solving orientation at the beginning, so that EOLine would be between the R+L centers. i didnt like it though because the center solving involves massive m-slicing, which is terrible with my shenshou, and unfortunately i gave my dayan+mf8 away...

& 5/7 liek a G6

explain!

 

[aznanimedude]

intaresting, i'm still too lazy to attempt to learn eopairing xD, still just messing around with OBLBL :3

 

[ThomasJE]

What are all these x/7 things I see in signatures of many ZZ solvers?

explain!

I think it could have something to do with LL. There are 7 COLL subsets, so it could mean they know 5/7 COLL subsets. It could be ZBLL as well, or another LL alg set all together.

 

[Petro Leum]

I think it could have something to do with LL. There are 7 COLL subsets, so it could mean they know 5/7 COLL subsets. It could be ZBLL as well, or another LL alg set all together.

if MdiPalma has learnt 5/7 ZBLL, thats pretty amazing!

but i think (guess) both he and azn now full COLL... (maybe im wrong?) if its COLL, i can proudly say i know 7/7

 

[TheNextFeliks]

if MdiPalma has learnt 5/7 ZBLL, thats pretty amazing!

but i think (guess) both he and azn now full COLL... (maybe im wrong?) if its COLL, i can proudly say i know 7/7

On the right track but no. Not zbll. Can't tell. I was sworn to secrecy. You shall learn soon.

 

[aznanimedude]

wut?