[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

Those who are timing EOL+1: Are you timeing the EOLine and a whole 1x2x3 block or a 1x2x2? I think this could be a little confusing for some, so I may just time EOLine, F2L and LL.
 
lol my PB avg5 is now set while doing splits :o


xeoline: 7.28, 7.35, 5.59, 7.33, 7.37 = 6.98 37%
rest of f2l: 3.77, 4.01. 5.55, 10.88, 5.48 = 5.94 31%
ll: 5.46, 6.04, 7.04, 4.26, 7.05 = 5.97 32%

times: 16.51, 17.40, 18.18, 22.47, 19.90 = 18.49 avg5
 
I just learned how to do zz from asmallkitten's youtube tutorials (very easy to understand; thank you). I currently use CFOP, and average about 18 seconds. I am tempted to switch to ZZ because 1. I like how no rotations are needed during F2L, 2. I don't need to learn full OLL (silly reason I know), and 3. I heard that ZZOH is extremely fast.
The hardest part for me right now is EO. When there are more than 6 bad edges, I have a really hard time keeping track of them all at the very beginning of the solve, thereby wasting a lot of time looking for them again.
Anybody have any tips, or just practice?
Thanks.
 
cubingawsumness said:
I just learned how to do zz from asmallkitten's youtube tutorials (very easy to understand; thank you). I currently use CFOP, and average about 18 seconds. I am tempted to switch to ZZ because 1. I like how no rotations are needed during F2L, 2. I don't need to learn full OLL (silly reason I know), and 3. I heard that ZZOH is extremely fast.
The hardest part for me right now is EO. When there are more than 6 bad edges, I have a really hard time keeping track of them all at the very beginning of the solve, thereby wasting a lot of time looking for them again.
Anybody have any tips, or just practice?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that happens to everyone when they switch to ZZ. There's really no way around it but practice. It's weird because I haven't practiced CFOP in a while, and I can inspect for EOLine in 3-4 secs, but I can't inspect for cross in 15 secs, even though cross involves tracking less pieces. Moral of the story is, practice. :)
 
cubingawsumness said:
I just learned how to do zz from asmallkitten's youtube tutorials (very easy to understand; thank you). I currently use CFOP, and average about 18 seconds. I am tempted to switch to ZZ because 1. I like how no rotations are needed during F2L, 2. I don't need to learn full OLL (silly reason I know), and 3. I heard that ZZOH is extremely fast.
The hardest part for me right now is EO. When there are more than 6 bad edges, I have a really hard time keeping track of them all at the very beginning of the solve, thereby wasting a lot of time looking for them again.
Anybody have any tips, or just practice?
Thanks.
Click to expand...

Use your fingers to keep track of them and memorize your first moves for EO (or EOLine) before you start the solve.
 
just lots of practice really, and eventually you'll just start to keep track without really thinking too hard about it.

@UVA yeah i know xD, in fact it's getting really comfortable to do EOLine even without much inspection lol
 
So I just did some timed solves, but I gave myself as much inspection as I needed so I could try to plan out EO (did not try to plan out the line as well):

number of times: 30/30
best time: 22.50
worst time: 55.23
best mo3: 29.62 (σ = 11.52)
best avg5: 27.77 (σ = 5.36)
best avg12: 33.69 (σ = 3.38)
session avg: 35.70 (σ = 5.67)
session mean: 36.13

41.52, 32.79, 33.63, 48.36, 40.99, 42.91, 22.50, 23.46, 54.71, 26.07, 33.77, 55.23, 39.47, 38.93, 35.02, 33.75, 33.43, 43.92, 29.29, 35.97, 34.32, 38.09, 38.18, 42.41, 24.25, 31.52, 36.11, 28.77, 32.31, 32.32

Most of the sub-30s are 2 or 4 bad edges. I think one of them was 8. The 54 was 10. By the end, I was getting a little more consistent, and didn't pause quite as much looking for stuff during EO.
My F2L is decent, although I'm still getting used to the blockbuilding (It's like learning F2L all over again XD).
Last layer is fast enough for now since I already knew 2look OLL and full PLL.
So should I just practice more EOLine?
 
yeah, EO detection is deceptively difficult to pick up, at least it was for me, and then just mentally keeping track of how many edges you are fixing and how many and where the bad edges are

F2L with ZZ is quite nice, especially when you have the epic eureka moment at the possible things you can get away with doing in ZZ that CFOP prevents you from doing, no rotations is cool but the plain things you can get away with doing is downright thievery sometimes.

get dem ZZ solves yo~

edit: also, been playing around alot with OBLBL, I LEIK VERY MUCH ALMOST AS MUCH AS MUDKIPZZZZZZZZZZZ
 
The hardest part for me right now is EO. When there are more than 6 bad edges, I have a really hard time keeping track of them all at the very beginning of the solve, thereby wasting a lot of time looking for them again.
Anybody have any tips, or just practice?
Click to expand...

Yes. Tip: you can visually sort the wrong edges into shapes/structures. An F face with 4 wrong edges can be visualized as 2 pairs of opposite edges. The vertical pair can slide into the horizontal pair. Likewise, the horizontal pair can slide into the vertical pair. You can also visualize wrong edges as adjacent pairs.

If you're correcting 6 edges, you can either do 4+2 or 3->1->3 (usually more efficient).

If you do 4+2, correct 4 first and then track the other 2 pieces.

If you do 3->1->3, figure out which 3 you want to turn into 1 and try not to influence the other 3 that you want to group the new wrong edge with. The trick cases are the ones where you must spend more moves to get 3 wrong edges to a face.

The rest comes with practice. It took me a long time to actually figure out what I was doing with ZZ. Let me know if my stuff doesn't make sense.
 
video is also worth a million bajillion words, a smal kitten's video helps alot if you can manage the sheer minute count of it :P
 
a small kitten said:
An F face with 4 wrong edges can be visualized as 2 pairs of opposite edges. The vertical pair can slide into the horizontal pair. Likewise, the horizontal pair can slide into the vertical pair.
Click to expand...

I don't really get what you mean by this.

Thank you for the tips. I actually haven't every done 3 -> 1 -> 3 in solves. I find it more confusing because the fact that a good edge became bad throws me off. I will try to use it more in the future.

Thanks!
 
cubingawsumness said:
I don't really get what you mean by this.

Thank you for the tips. I actually haven't every done 3 -> 1 -> 3 in solves. I find it more confusing because the fact that a good edge became bad throws me off. I will try to use it more in the future.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

what he basically means is, when you do an F turn, the horizontal edges become the vertical ones, and vice versa

and yeah efficiency-wise doing 6 edges as 3->1->3 is actually more so than 4+2, but 4+2 makes more sense when you start off

edit:

blokpoi said:
Finished full zz :) now I need to practice and get my times down ;d
Click to expand...

GOOD LUCK =D, what LL do you do? OCLL -> PLL? COLL? full blown ZZLL/ZBLL, the fabled legendary ZZ-D -> 2GLL?
 
aznanimedude said:
what he basically means is, when you do an F turn, the horizontal edges become the vertical ones, and vice versa
Click to expand...

that's not what he means.

he means the bad edges in UR and UL are a horizontal pair and can slide into the vertical pair of bad edges at UF and DF with L R'
 
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