[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

Question for the experienced ZZ users. (Conrad, thanks for your answer)

I have a question about "thinking / visualizing" the initial planning of EO:
When you identify EO; do you think of the info as:
"x of 4 edges on U" and "x of 4 edges on D" and then the 2+2 remaining on F and B

OR

"x of 4 edges on F" and "x of 4 edges on B" and then the 2+2 remaining on U and D?

The second case seems to make it easier for me to plan EO moves since this way of memorizing immediately tells me with which face (typically) to start and how this face changes upon a face turn.

When I think of U and D faces it seems I have to make an additional "translation" step in planning EO.

Thanks for your feedback.
 
I identify/count the bad edges from front to back (F-slice, S-slice, then B-Slice). I don't plan moves until after I've identified all the bad edges, and I use the total to help trigger which patterns I look for (typically, 4 for 4, 3+3 for 6, 4+4 for 8, and 4+4+2 for 10). The exception is when I see four bad edges on the F or B slice, then I forget those edges and remember to start with a quarter-turn of the appropriate face.
 
@Cubenovice, just as a follow-up from my email:
I had a go at F->B->S slice detection, and it didn't really help with speeding up the planning phase. Just like Matt_S, I only start to plan after detection. Finding bad edges on F/B first didn't seem to allow me to start planning any earlier.
 
Cubenovice said:
Question for the experienced ZZ users. (Conrad, thanks for your answer)

I have a question about "thinking / visualizing" the initial planning of EO:
When you identify EO; do you think of the info as:
"x of 4 edges on U" and "x of 4 edges on D" and then the 2+2 remaining on F and B

OR

"x of 4 edges on F" and "x of 4 edges on B" and then the 2+2 remaining on U and D?

The second case seems to make it easier for me to plan EO moves since this way of memorizing immediately tells me with which face (typically) to start and how this face changes upon a face turn.

When I think of U and D faces it seems I have to make an additional "translation" step in planning EO.

Thanks for your feedback.
Click to expand...

I do this the way Sir E. Brum does it, but I thought just the other day that I SHOULD do it the second way. It seems to make more sense and planning EOLine should be easier.
 
When I inspect for EO(line), it usually goes something like the following:

UF, UL, UB, LB, BD, BR, UR, FR, FD, DR, DL, FL
In a sense that that's how I speed-scan the cube.
I try to scan this in less than 2 seconds, holding in not necessarily the number of bad edges, but rather which are bad or good.
Whether this is a better/worse approach, I don't know.
Thoughts?
 
just a quick though. (started by kenneth)
How beneficial do you guys think it would be for ZZ users to learn a set of algs that does EP+CO
i believe that there would only be 35(?) algs that you would need to learn. this would leave you with 3 algs for corners.
instead of COLL(42 algs) +E EP(4 algs) = 46 algs. One would only need to learn 38 algs.

I havnt come up with any cases/algs so i dont know how nice these algs would be or how good/horrible the recog would be. But it seems feasible.
 
jms_gears1 said:
just a quick though. (started by kenneth)
How beneficial do you guys think it would be for ZZ users to learn a set of algs that does EP+CO
i believe that there would only be 35(?) algs that you would need to learn. this would leave you with 3 algs for corners.
instead of COLL(42 algs) +E EP(4 algs) = 46 algs. One would only need to learn 38 algs.

I havnt come up with any cases/algs so i dont know how nice these algs would be or how good/horrible the recog would be. But it seems feasible.
Click to expand...

What You mean by EP+CO - edges permutation + corners orientation? But what with corners permutation?

btw, new pb's today (using zz oc) - 13.47 avg 12, 14.73 mean of 100
 
Lol every ZZ-user except me is scanning the cube for bad edges O.o?

I do it completly automatic. I´m not searching for anything and sometimes myself doesn´t know what I´m doing there, but it works :P.

Another Question:

What is the best Non lucky Solve?
Today I´ve done a 11.90 :).

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhnGJJ8Hn8M[/yt]
 
jms_gears1 said:
just a quick though. (started by kenneth)
How beneficial do you guys think it would be for ZZ users to learn a set of algs that does EP+CO
i believe that there would only be 35(?) algs that you would need to learn. this would leave you with 3 algs for corners.
instead of COLL(42 algs) +E EP(4 algs) = 46 algs. One would only need to learn 38 algs.

I havnt come up with any cases/algs so i dont know how nice these algs would be or how good/horrible the recog would be. But it seems feasible.
Click to expand...

Discussion on it here:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16047

Info on the tutorial here:
http://cube.crider.co.uk/zz.php?p=ll#ocell_cpll

The main advantage of this is that the vast majority of algs are 2-Gen. The only non-2-gen ones are the four final CPLL algs.
 
Cride5 said:
jms_gears1 said:
just a quick though. (started by kenneth)
How beneficial do you guys think it would be for ZZ users to learn a set of algs that does EP+CO
i believe that there would only be 35(?) algs that you would need to learn. this would leave you with 3 algs for corners.
instead of COLL(42 algs) +E EP(4 algs) = 46 algs. One would only need to learn 38 algs.

I havnt come up with any cases/algs so i dont know how nice these algs would be or how good/horrible the recog would be. But it seems feasible.
Click to expand...

Discussion on it here:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16047


Info on the tutorial here:
http://cube.crider.co.uk/zz.php?p=ll#ocell_cpll

The main advantage of this is that the vast majority of algs are 2-Gen. The only non-2-gen ones are the four final CPLL algs.
Click to expand...
ahh lol. It seems that i missed those threads. A lot of people seemed against it. I still think it could be a great set to learn. Recog would come in time, just like COLL.
 
Last edited:
jms_gears1 said:
just a quick though. (started by kenneth)
How beneficial do you guys think it would be for ZZ users to learn a set of algs that does EP+CO
i believe that there would only be 35(?) algs that you would need to learn. this would leave you with 3 algs for corners.
instead of COLL(42 algs) +E EP(4 algs) = 46 algs. One would only need to learn 38 algs.

I havnt come up with any cases/algs so i dont know how nice these algs would be or how good/horrible the recog would be. But it seems feasible.
Click to expand...

For me, the added recognition time used to determine EP before executing would not be worth it, and I'd rather not increase my chances of an E perm.
 
riffz said:
jms_gears1 said:
just a quick though. (started by kenneth)
How beneficial do you guys think it would be for ZZ users to learn a set of algs that does EP+CO
i believe that there would only be 35(?) algs that you would need to learn. this would leave you with 3 algs for corners.
instead of COLL(42 algs) +E EP(4 algs) = 46 algs. One would only need to learn 38 algs.

I havnt come up with any cases/algs so i dont know how nice these algs would be or how good/horrible the recog would be. But it seems feasible.
Click to expand...

For me, the added recognition time used to determine EP before executing would not be worth it, and I'd rather not increase my chances of an E perm.
Click to expand...

Ditto. The great part about COLL is that EPLLs are fun.
 
What algorithm set did you guys use? Like, where did you learn your algorithms?
Also, what kinda algorithms should i know (besides ZBF2L and ZBLL algorithms). anything you guys think i should learn?

also, im reading the links, etc, should i use the wiki for the algorithms? lmk <3
rawr

edit-place for zbf2l algorithms? I found the wiki algorithms for zbll (the 7 groups) yet i can't find a good zbf2l site that has all the case
 
Last edited:
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