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[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

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some people have told me that im the best ZZ-Cuber officially for 3x3 with a 10.30 avg, but i am not too sure. is zz still not sub10 officially?


its still a minority. according to that one thread it was like 7% ZZ 17% Roux 72% Cfop, but thats probably biased because people with minority methods are mroe eager to vote. it's probably less than 7% in reality.


the time will come! we will get our alexander lau eventually ;)
I feel like roux % is lower than that. What happened to Phil? Law School gets in the way of competing (wouldnt be surprised)? Videos show sub 10 2h capabilities and crazy OH.
 
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i am very, very far from beating phil in OH ;)

not sure about his twohanded... i guess he just never really got it going in comps
I met him in a comp he seemed to chill to care about any event just there to compete and stuff, but not competitively, if you know what I mean. I don't think he cares much for 2H or anything other than OH, which he doesn't really seriously practice but is epic anyway :D


Also how do you guys feel about Y-axis neutrality, I can't do it for some reason, is the edge detection different D:
Is it worth planning the WHOLE EOLine?
 
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Petro Leum

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Also how do you guys feel about Y-axis neutrality, I can't do it for some reason, is the edge detection different D:
Is it worth planning the WHOLE EOLine?
yes and yes.

you have to apply the same rules for EO after you do a y rotation, however, the colours that belong to L/R and F/B are swapped. that is all.
 

Millet

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The only time I rotate the Y axis is when I get a case of 10 or 12 bad edges, EO is statistically very likely to be better doing this. But I wouldn't really call it y-axis neutrality, since I don't inspect that case unless I first determine that my normal rotation is bad.

4Chan, if you have any questions, feel free to post them here, we will try to answer to the best of our ability :)
 

4Chan

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Okay! Here are two questions that I've been wondering:

I notice you're learning ZBLL, how are you recognising your cases?
Furthermore, there are only 40 sets right? 41 including PLL, if so, why do some resources say there are 42 sets?
 

Millet

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Okay! Here are two questions that I've been wondering:

I notice you're learning ZBLL, how are you recognising your cases?
Furthermore, there are only 40 sets right? 41 including PLL, if so, why do some resources say there are 42 sets?
That was a fast reply!

Well, first I need to determine if there are other cases that might be similar to the case in question, after determining the differences between them it is much simpler to recognize a case. Things I look for in a specific case differ quite a lot actually. It could be a certain color combination (easiest are those which have the same colors in a row in multiple locations around the cube. It could be whether the edges are solved or even certain cases where I use my imagination to name the case after what it looks like. The most important thing is to find something that is unique to that certain case. There are only a handful of cases I can recognize immediately from only 1 angle (seeing 2 sides), which is definitely a disadvantage. I will probably start learning how to recognize them from a single angle when I'm done with all the ZBLL's.

I've heard that you know most of the ZBLL's yourself, which is really impressive!

There are 40 sets, 41 counting pll. People who say there are 42 sets might actually count the solved state? I've wondered about this too, and that is the only explanation I can think of.
 

4Chan

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Thanks for confirming! I had written 42 in my notes back in 2009, and 5 years later I've NO idea what that extra one was.
I'm pretty sure now that it included the solved state as a set.

Hahah, why yes, I do know a few, I'm currently working on it as well, and I'm asking around for hints/tips to improve.
My recognition really needs help, so I'm trying to figure out a better way to do it.
 

Millet

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Thanks for confirming! I had written 42 in my notes back in 2009, and 5 years later I've NO idea what that extra one was.
I'm pretty sure now that it included the solved state as a set.

Hahah, why yes, I do know a few, I'm currently working on it as well, and I'm asking around for hints/tips to improve.
My recognition really needs help, so I'm trying to figure out a better way to do it.
Then I can seriously recommend naming them. It is going to be hard, but the ones that you have most problems with, will be most efficient with a name. The easy ones don't really need one, since you know them almost immediately. Be imaginative, but it has to make sense to YOU.

What resources are you using currently? I'm interested because two of the resources I've used extensively (speedsolving.com zbll set and boca.bee) are now offline. The only one left that is good, is the newly created algdb.net (which seems to be offline currently as well). It is quite annoying. When ever I can't find any good alg, I just run Cube Explorer or look at bindedsa's zbll alg set. How do you go about finding algorithms?
 

4Chan

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I also use Cube Explorer! Most of the algs I generate are [R,U,D] because I like how they flow.
Like this zero regrip alg for example: R2 U' R' U2 R U' R2 U' R D R' U' R U D' R'

I recently created a new list with 40% old algs, 45% newly generated algs, and 15% from algdb.
The most difficult part about algdb for me is that I solve with blue on top, and I also recognise ZBLL cases from different angles, so I have to convert the case to yellow and twist it around to see the equivalent case, so I only used algdb when I was stuck generating cases.

I haven't seen bindedsa's set, so I'll go searching, thanks for mentioning it!!
 

Millet

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I also use Cube Explorer! Most of the algs I generate are [R,U,D] because I like how they flow.
Like this zero regrip alg for example: R2 U' R' U2 R U' R2 U' R D R' U' R U D' R'

I recently created a new list with 40% old algs, 45% newly generated algs, and 15% from algdb.
The most difficult part about algdb for me is that I solve with blue on top, and I also recognise ZBLL cases from different angles, so I have to convert the case to yellow and twist it around to see the equivalent case, so I only used algdb when I was stuck generating cases.

I haven't seen bindedsa's set, so I'll go searching, thanks for mentioning it!!
Sorry, I should have included the link:
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?49936-My-Full-ZBLL-List
It is very good. I will post one of my own some day, when ever it is that I'm done :)

What alg set are you learning currently?
 

4Chan

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MM99

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I'm sorry but what's the point in learning full ZBLL? Couldn't that time be spent mastering your EO and Block solutions? And I can't see you ever being able to recognize these algs as fast as PLL or simply executing them as fast because theres just so many more algs to drill and learn I feel a smaller more rehearsed alg set will serve better than ZBLL. Once again I don't mean to attack anyone here just wanna hear everyone's opinion on the matter
 

4Chan

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We certainly won't know for sure until we try. Like, an actual whole-hearted try.

I've tried before when I was 17 (I'm 23 in two weeks), but that was a half-effort wasted because I partied too hard, chased too many girls, and wasted too much time.
I learned tons of lessons from the first time around, and now my approach is much much more improved.

This time around, I'll be making a full effort, and I think that it will be worth it.
This time around, I'm polling everyone for advice, scrounging the best speed algs, and devoting 40+ hours a week.
 

MM99

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Alright sounds inspiring lol.. Be sure to keep us updated on the journey because I for one am very interested in seeing if this would be a viable method for speed solving. If it proves to be practical then I might have to give it a try but probably not until I'm around 10seconds or even sub 10 globally before I even try this. Also what are your averages looking like right now?
 

4Chan

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Haha, thank you!
You have a really valid point though, I could be totally wrong and would've wasted another huge fraction of my life!:p

I won't be doing any averages until I complete memorisation, but I'd predict after I finish memo, it'd be 16-17+ because I'm bad at ZZ.

I've been keeping a record of my progress on a blog site, but it's extremely vulgar with lots of expletives and crazy thoughts.
I'll post it when I post an Ao12 ZBLL video after memo!
 

MM99

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Alright lol And yeah my views right now are spending more time on the fundamentals (EO + F2B) will yield a much better payout than learning an advanced LL system like ZBLL but I could be wrong and you could be the one to prove ZBLL's worth so I'll keep going my way and patiently wait for your results. Good Luck! and try to have some fun with it if at all possible
 
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