Why Not Teach CLL/ELL?

[dChan]

so do you use CLL/ELL or OLL/PLL yourself?

I use OLL and PLL, currently. This thread was just something I made because I was at one of those points where I was thinking that there must be something to make me automatically faster. I am learning COLL as an addition but I don't think I will end up learning CLL/ELL - at least not in the sense where I will have mastered all cases.

 

[Robert-Y]

Sorry for going slightly off topic but I think that to recognise the PLL, the maximum number of pieces you need to look at from any angle is 6. Am I wrong?

 

[jcuber]

Yes, you need to recognise all 8 if you get a PLL skip

 

[miniGOINGS]

i think all 12 are nessicary

 

[qqwref]

You can recognize PLL by looking at F and R only, that's just 6 stickers. You can also recognize OLL by looking at U, F, and R only, which is 15 stickers. A lot of faster people can do this stuff every time, but I think for most people it's quite difficult to recognize the 'back' of Y/V/G/R/whatever.

 

[Robert-Y]

@jcuber: No you don't

@miniGOINGS: There are only 8 pieces in the last layer (excluding the centre)...

@qqwref: What about the U perms?

 

[dChan]

@Robert-Y: I think it is still possible. From the all four different possible angles, at least, it seems that you can recognize a U-permutation and which direction to cycle the edges in.

 

[Robert-Y]

Ah I'm being stupid lol, I think I'm right if you don't know your own colour/color scheme

 

[dChan]

Ah I'm being stupid lol, I think I'm right if you don't know your own colour/color scheme

Haha, don't worry you are sort of right. Sometimes I find myself looking at an additional side because I think that I have an H-permutation. For example, when the UR edge is in the UL side it can look like an H-Perm if you just glance at it. But that only happens if you don't pay attention to the adjacent side, I suppose.

 

[qqwref]

If you don't know your color scheme you can still look at the URF corner to figure out what faces are adjacent... and if you don't know what faces are opposite on your cube, well, you're a noob and you shouldn't be doing full PLL yet anyway.

If you look at R and F for a PLL case, you can get the three corners (and by process of elimination the fourth), and then since you can see two edges and there is no parity you can figure out which of the other two edges is where. Note that on a PLL case with parity (on sq1, domino, 4x4, void cube) you have to look at 3 sides because you don't know where the other two edges are just by looking at two.

 

[joey]

OLL looks at 8 stickers (6 if you wanna be cool, and realise the last two stickers have to be a certain way if you see the other 6)
And I'm pretty sure you can only recognise PLL with around 6 - 9 stickers.

 

[Robert-Y]

Well when I recognise the OLL, I look at the top first to narrow the algorithm, I will have to use, down to a few. If, after I look the top and cannot determine which alg I need to execute, then I look at the closest corner cubie which has not been correctly oriented. I think then, I know for sure which alg to do.

 

[miniGOINGS]

@jcuber: No you don't

@miniGOINGS: There are only 8 pieces in the last layer (excluding the centre)...

@qqwref: What about the U perms?

lol im taking about 12stickers for pll

 

[Thieflordz5]

I used to use ELL and CLL without knowing it. For Me, O/PLL is much easier to learn because all you have to do is see what goes up and what shifts, It's much easier to learn than C/ELL, but I use 2 look O/PLL, so I can't say much for 1 look...

 

[miniGOINGS]

I used to use ELL and CLL without knowing it. For Me, O/PLL is much easier to learn because all you have to do is see what goes up and what shifts, It's much easier to learn than C/ELL, but I use 2 look O/PLL, so I can't say much for 1 look...

for me OLL has to many positions and PLL is hard to see what has to go where, thats why im learning CLL ELL first

 

[Robert-Y]

You'll get used to OLL and PLL as you practise more and more, just look at the patterns. Don't worry too much about the colours.

 

[AvGalen]

The good thing about OLL/PLL recognition is that you can really do it in 1 glance.
OLL just requires you to look at the top + front-left or top + front-right
PLL just requires you to look at the 6 stickers at front-left or front-right

and during your last pair it is pretty easy to predict a bit part of the OLL already

 

[Thieflordz5]

I used to use ELL and CLL without knowing it. For Me, O/PLL is much easier to learn because all you have to do is see what goes up and what shifts, It's much easier to learn than C/ELL, but I use 2 look O/PLL, so I can't say much for 1 look...

for me OLL has to many positions and PLL is hard to see what has to go where, thats why im learning CLL ELL first

Well, really, C/ELL is kinda the same as O/PLL because ELL is a combo of OLL and PLL, it's just that you do the permutations of the corners first. Really what I can compare it to most is the opposite of the 2-Look O/PLL, where you do the corners first instead of the edges. I learned C/ELL first (Self taught FTW?) but I believe that O/PLL is faster, but I used middle "slice" (well it was really r2 R2...) so I guess it's kinda obvious that it was slower...

 

[dChan]

I don't think you can call the two the same. CLL and ELL both handle the last layer in two steps just as OLL and PLL do but with CLL and ELL you are both permutating and orienting a certain type of piece(edge or corner). In OLL and PLL you first orient all pieces then you permutate all pieces - the steps of these two systems for the last layer have different goals.

 

[qqwref]

CLL/ELL and OLL/PLL aren't even remotely the same, what are you talking about? Just because they solve the same pieces doesn't mean they're the same thing. That's like saying all 3x3 methods are the same because every piece gets both oriented and permuted in every method.

Also: r2 R2? If you're going to use CLL/ELL you should really learn to do M slices comfortably... learn the M2' trigger and get used to the fingertricks and all that. Otherwise you're basically wristing your last layer.