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The ZZVolution.

What do you think is the superior method?


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    107

ProStar

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RUD-gen is a better 3 move set of moves. F2L can have also no D moves if you want but adding them is very efficient and pdueso slotting and F RU F' gives F2L way more options while remaining very ergonomic and uses D turns.

For RUFLy vs RUL yes RUL has less moves but F turns can be fine and there are ways to minimise rotations a bit. People here are making out like it is so so much better but the difference is small. This depends on how good your turning is of course. Fancy finger tricks are harder and have more risk but give you more options.
But CFOP isn't RUD. Even when you take advantage of pseudo slotting and keyhole, you usually don't have a lot of D moves. It's mostly RUFL

How are fingertricks harder?
 

tx789

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But CFOP isn't RUD. Even when you take advantage of pseudo slotting and keyhole, you usually don't have a lot of D moves. It's mostly RUFL

How are fingertricks harder?
RUD algs are much much better than RUL. Name a alg where RUL is the best option(the bad jperm is the only commonly used alg I can think of and there are good alternatives that are pontenially better). How many RUL algs can you find that people actually use and are good. RUD and RUF are way more common for a reason.

Yes this isn't in f2l but you use the same fingertricks throughout the solve. And what move sets are used in algs are limited for ergonomics the fact RUL is used and is avoided shows us that it isn't as good as others.


Yes CFOP F2L isn't limited much in moves. D turns maybe be uncommon (less so for fast people) but RUF is better than RUL. Yes there are rotations but they don't take that long. It just on extra move.


The point is while EO F2L might feel fast because of no rotations and RUL. it really isn't that different than basic cfop.

ZZ in general seems slower. The EO cross is way longer meaning the only step that is shorter is ZBLL and that is a very minimal difference. In my mind ZZ with EO cross is basically a version of cfop where you take much longer to do cross and what is gained f2l that at best is about the same and ll that is a little faster.

Hey maybe I'm wrong but it'll take someone getting a 5.xx offical average. If you want to prove this method is better get a really fast.

I know the whole no good uses it agrument is flawed but Roux has some really fast people using it and it definitely isn't that popular. Either it's just bad or just waiting for someone to get good with it. If it is so much better why are the best people using the method a lot slower than CFOP or Roux solvers. Numbers of people using it is possible. But hardly anyone used Roux before Alex Lau. Maybe this is something waiting to happen with ZZ but I highly doubt it. The f2l is better because RUL as a move set isn't good. And EO cross is pretty bad compared to cross. No one is colour neutral with zz.

I mean ZZ with eocross on left compared to cfop cross on left might be better but the. That is cross on left which almost no one uses anymore.
 

OreKehStrah

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Also, you can bypass the issue of RUL turning by treating L/L' moves as r/r' (Wide R moves). People really should do this irregardless of what method they are using.
 

N's-cvt

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I use some ZZLL's that have RUL and they are fun and fast to do. The only biff I have with L moves is that if they are not algorithmic they slow me down and they make my hands do weird stuff sometimes.
 

OreKehStrah

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But then it's rRF gen
That's just the technical details. Try doing lefty T Perm and then do lefty T perm while substituting L moves for wide R moves. I would be that you will find a way to execute it more comfortably and quickly using wide R moves. It doesn't matter that it's RUL if you execute it in a way that is comfortable.
 

PapaSmurf

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I use some ZZLL's that have RUL and they are fun and fast to do. The only biff I have with L moves is that if they are not algorithmic they slow me down and they make my hands do weird stuff sometimes.
There will almost certainly be RUD/RUF algs for those cases too. Not saying that they're faster, but they exist.
 
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hey everyone
so i started using zz and im quite slow (still getting used to eo coming from roux)
im scared that im going to have to learn zbll eventually
and when i see the algs i go ................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... im never going to learn this
edit also im using portico and planning to switch to full zz a but should i?or should i stick to portico?
 
Last edited:
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hey everyone
so i started using zz and im quite slow (still getting used to eo coming from roux)
im scared that im going to have to learn zbll eventually
and when i see the algs i go ................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... im never going to learn this
edit also im using portico and planning to switch to full zz a but should i?or should i stick to portico?
Stick to Roux if you don't like algs.
 

PapaSmurf

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You don't need to learn full ZBLL to have the fastest ZZ. You only really need TUL, 2 sets of Pi, 2 sets of H and then use OCLL/PLL for the rest. You also don't need to learn it all in a set time frame - you can learn an alg per day and be done with those algs in less than 8 months, or you could go through more intense periods of alg learning then taking a break for a bit and still be done in less than a year. Also, there's not really much point using portico when you could just do vanilla ZZ (OCLL/PLL) and be as fast, if not faster.
TL;DR: don't be scared of full ZBLL because you don't have to learn all of it and OCLL/PLL can be pretty fast anyway.
Welcome to ZZ! If you need any more help, just ask (you could also join the discord server we have, invite is in my signature).
 
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I honestly think ZZ has a lot of untapped potential because it is the newest method in the Big 4.
First of all, we have ZBLL which is the most optimal approach
Next, If someone comes up with algs for multi angle TTLL then maybe CT can be a practical 1LLL approach with a manageable algcount.
If you use 12 seconds of Inspection, you can plan X-EOCross(that's doable imo)
I have an idea for 2 look TSLE though.
I don't know if it has been proposed.
You can pair up any. corner with the last edge, insert and then you can do OCLL. This reduces the no. of algs required from 104 to 7.
 
Last edited:
Joined
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a Pokedex or somewhere near you.
I honestly think ZZ has a lot of untapped potential because it is the newest method in the Big 4.
First of all, we have ZBLL which is the most optimal approach
Next, If someone comes up with algs for multi angle TTLL then maybe CT can be a practical 1LLL approach with a manageable algcount.
If you use 12 seconds of Inspection, you can plan X-EOCross(that's doable imo)
I have an idea for 2 look TSLE though.
I don't know if it has been proposed.
You can pair up any. corner with the last edge, insert and then you can do OCLL. This reduces the no. of algs required from 104 to 7.
People like Radmac can already inspect EOCross+1 (lol) in under 15 seconds.
it's already been used for 2 look TSLE lol.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 16, 2020
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You don't need to learn full ZBLL to have the fastest ZZ. You only really need TUL, 2 sets of Pi, 2 sets of H and then use OCLL/PLL for the rest. You also don't need to learn it all in a set time frame - you can learn an alg per day and be done with those algs in less than 8 months, or you could go through more intense periods of alg learning then taking a break for a bit and still be done in less than a year. Also, there's not really much point using portico when you could just do vanilla ZZ (OCLL/PLL) and be as fast, if not faster.
TL;DR: don't be scared of full ZBLL because you don't have to learn all of it and OCLL/PLL can be pretty fast anyway.
Welcome to ZZ! If you need any more help, just ask (you could also join the discord server we have, invite is in my signature).
thanks for your advice i think im going to do that
 
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