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Should 3x3x3 With Feet Remain an Official WCA Event?

Which option describes you best?


  • Total voters
    481

kcl

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kennanlejeune
Many adept OH solvers learn alternative algorithm sets specifically for OH solving. I don't believe this is the case with feetsolving. (If it is the case, feel free to correct me.)
As two people said before me, top feet solvers definitely learn alternate alg sets. While I don't favor the event, it is a category of its own which requires skill and I feel it should stay.
 

Cale S

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mathtornado7
I think it's even more important for feet than OH to learn additional algs, because movecount greatly affects your times in feet.

In my opinion, feet is about solving efficiently and turning with your feet as fast as you can.
Which is exactly like OH if you replace 'turning with your feet' with 'turning using only one of your hands'. I don't see what feet adds over OH.
 

qqwref

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This really bugs me. How can you say feet doesn't require skill? You saying Gabriel Pereira Campanha broke WR without skill and technique?
I don't think it has a lot of its own skills and techniques that don't already apply to the normal speedsolving events. BigBLD, multiBLD, and FMC do. OH also doesn't have a lot of its own skills and techniques - like feet, by far the biggest thing you need to be good is to spend a lot of time practicing the movements until you can do them fluently and quickly. However, OH is extremely easy to hold in competition.

My point was that feet is a combination of difficult to hold in competition, and also not very unique in theory terms.
 

Erik

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Short competitions are certainly easier to organize and run (and help out in) without feet. You don't have to move the timers and tables and stuff around, clean and deodorize things so people who don't love feet aren't disgusted, etc. while still keeping to the fixed number of hours you have the venue for.

Of course, bigBLD/multiBLD/FMC also make competitions harder to run, but at least (IMO) those have a lot of additional technique and skill above and beyond normal speedsolving, whereas feet doesn't.
QQ: Normally I find your posts to be well informed, to the point and logical. But this one has some things in it which are just plain wrong.

Firstly: who says an organizer of a short competition chooses to hold feet? And if he does, it's his responsibility the stuff gets moved, not yours as a competitor (of course it's nice to help). Also: moving the timers to the floor takes 2 minutes. These are kind of non-arguments. I get the feeling you are trying to argue towards impracticality even though the real reason is that you just don't like the event (which is fine of course).

BigBLD's and FMC take significantly longer to hold, put a bigger 'strain' on the organizer and have bigger impacts on time schedules and/or venue specifications (extra room or not).

Claiming feet doesn't require skill beyond normal hand-speedsolving is just a sign that you don't really know what feet (and a BIG part of speedsolving) is about. It's not only about solving techniques (which are different when doing feet), but also about dexterity. I'd say dexterity is as important if not more important than learning a new set of algs, which fast people actually do (Ranzha).
 

tseitsei

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Feet mostly just requires good tps with feet (maybe some new algs also) but the basic solving method is the same as in 3x3 speedsolve.

And same goes for OH. By far the most important thing is how fast you can turn the cube with the new limitation.
Nothing new is added to the thinking part of the solve or the method of solving the cube (learning new algs for same cases doesn't really change the method significantly).

That is why I don't like feet and oh both. I know oh won't be removed it is too popular but do we really need 2 of these "turn as fast as you can with some handicap" events? I think not but feel free to disagree if you want...
 

Goosly

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Claiming feet doesn't require skill beyond normal hand-speedsolving is just a sign that you don't really know what feet (and a BIG part of speedsolving) is about.
Qqwref never claimed that. He only said it doesn't require a lot of additional skill in his opinion, whereas bigBLD, multibld and FMC does.
 

Erik

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Qqwref never claimed that. He only said it doesn't require a lot of additional skill in his opinion, whereas bigBLD, multibld and FMC does.
He did in this post.
Of course, bigBLD/multiBLD/FMC also make competitions harder to run, but at least (IMO) those have a lot of additional technique and skill above and beyond normal speedsolving, whereas feet doesn't.
And the in the next post he gave in a bit:
I don't think it has a lot of its own skills and techniques that don't already apply to the normal speedsolving events.
Solving your cube with your feet is no additional skill? It's as easy as twisting your cubes with 2 hands? I didn't think so. Physical skills (dexterity) and mental (methods and algs) skills are both skills. You need to develop new skills in both of these areas if you want to be good at feet. The physical skill is even more important than mental skills at feet I'd say. Maybe that's part of why media thinks especially feet is impressive. You can quickly see additional skill is required in comparison with normal 2-hand solving. This is harder to spot at other 2-Handed twisty puzzle events like megaminx or 5x5 (both obviously also require new skills).
 
Last edited:

Goosly

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Solving your cube with your feet is no additional skill? It's as easy as twisting your cubes with 2 hands? I didn't think so.
Obviously nobody thinks it's as easy as 2-handed. You seem to be ignoring the part "a lot of", which I put in bold for a reason :)
 

Erik

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Obviously nobody thinks it's as easy as 2-handed. You seem to be ignoring the part "a lot of", which I put in bold for a reason :)
Yes let's debate on how to measure skill. How about litres?

FMC and BigBLD require mostly new mental skills whereas the emphasis is more on physical skills on feet (again: you do need new algs, maybe even more than at OH). So what? That doesn't make it a worse event, nor an easy event, and especially not an event which barely requires new skill. Speedsolving is not chess where it's 99% thinking and 1% executing moves (exception: blitz and bullet). It has always been a balance between dexterity (speed) and puzzling (solving).

I've said it before: removing feet can be justifyable, if done for the right reasons. "Lack of skill" is not a valid reason, whereas "not many competitors" would be.
 

Goosly

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I've said it before: removing feet can be justifyable, if done for the right reasons. "Lack of skill" is not a valid reason, whereas "not many competitors" would be.
I agree. I'm not giving arguments for removing feet. I currently don't want any events to be removed. All I wanted to do was clarify qqwrefs opinion, since you seemed to think he was claiming feet doesn't require any skill at all, which he did not.
 

abunickabhi

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Jan 9, 2014
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Feet solving has been well established.also ppl have tried solving 7x7 with feet under 20min.so it is a legit event.but I personally feel that feet and clock take away the speedcubing spirit since the 2 events r not best to judge and not main priorities of many cubers including me.
 
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