[Help Thread] Roux Discussion and Help

[CheesecakeCuber]

How much is full CN worth it over y-axis + opposite?

Tis really isn't that hard guise, you just have to pick whatever yew feel comfortable doing, and put your head to it.

CN is worth it, like in almost all meffods, as long as your times don't permanently suffer. If you can manage full CN in Roux efen tho blox and EO and CMLL, then go for it. However, many Rouxers (inlcuding me) find it easier to just be y-axis and opposite CN. It shouldn't slow you down at all, and if it does, then a couple solves to orient yourself with yur new neutrality should help.

 

[Renslay]

Here is a lucky scrable (finished first block):
R2 F2 L2 U' L2 U B2 L2 F2 U B2 F' D' R' D B' F D' U' B

What would be an efficient second block?
My solution is:

1x2x2: R' r2 U r U' (5)
CE: R U' M U' R U M' U2 R' U r (11)

The CE is awful; is there any better way to solve the second block?

 

[Kirjava]

I'd do: R' r2 U r U' R U R U R' U R U' R' U r

r U M' U' r U R U2 R U' R is optimal

 

[cowabunga]

and M2 U' R U2 r U' r2 U' r' U R leads to the same nice alg.

 

[pijok]

I'd do: R' r2 U r U' R U M' U R U' r' U R

and for FMC:
SB: B' U' B2 R2 B U B Rw2 U Rw' (10)

 

[Blacksworn]

Could someone please explain LSE to me? I just can't seem to get it

 

[Bestsimple]

You solve last 6 edges by firstly orienting the edges, then solving UL+UR pieces then permute and solve the pieces.

 

[YddEd]

Try this scramble.
R2 F' B' R B U2 D L2 F B R2 L U2 R2 L' U D2 F L2 R' D' L' B U2 F'

 

[SpeaX]

Hi guys! Ok, Im french so my english isn't really good so

I solve the rubik's cube with Roux and Im avg35 today. To improve my solves, I do this scramble, can you help me to find mistakes and improve my move efficient etc. ( you can also correct my english ^^)

Scramble (by qq timer): U B' U F B' R B L D F2 L2 B2 L' D2 B2 U2 L2 U2 R' U2

So this is what I will do for speedcubing solve
1st Block: F' B2 D2 U2 y' B R' F2 R U2 L' U L
2nd Block y R' U R2 U R' M U M' y L F2 L' y' M U2 y R U' R' U2 R U R' y' M' U
CMLL (2-look) F R U R' U' R U R' U' F' / F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F'
L6E: U M' U' M' U2 U F2 M F2 M' ( I found this after 5 min. It's not my quick lookahead)

What do you think ?

 

[CheesecakeCuber]

Hi guys! Ok, Im french so my english isn't really good so

I solve the rubik's cube with Roux and Im avg35 today. To improve my solves, I do this scramble, can you help me to find mistakes and improve my move efficient etc. ( you can also correct my english ^^)

Scramble (by qq timer): U B' U F B' R B L D F2 L2 B2 L' D2 B2 U2 L2 U2 R' U2

So this is what I will do for speedcubing solve
1st Block: F' B2 D2 U2 y' B R' F2 R U2 L' U L
2nd Block y R' U R2 U R' M U M' y L F2 L' y' M U2 y R U' R' U2 R U R' y' M' U
CMLL (2-look) F R U R' U' R U R' U' F' / F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F'
L6E: U M' U' M U F2 M F2 M'

What do you think ?

You have way to many rotations, or should I say, you have rotations. Roux is a rotation less method (or at least can be if your algs have no rotations)

Inspection: y x
First Block: F U' M2 U' M2 F' L2 (An x2 rotation would have been ok in that case, but there is an easy insert DR edge case that can be used)
Second Block: M2 U R' U2 R' r' U' R U' R' r U r'
CMLL: 2-look or (U) U' R' U' R U' L U' R' U L' U2 R
LSE: (R U' r' U' M' U r U r') <That's a fingertricky six-flip alg you should use if you get stuck with that case U' M' U2 M U M2 U2 M U2 M

 

[bundat]

1st Block: F' B2 D2 U2 y'...

Roux is preferably rotationless.

1st Block: F' B2 D2 U2 y' B R' F2 R U2 L' U L

Whoa F2L.
U' L is enough

2nd Block y R' U R2 U R' M U M' y L F2 L'...

I'd do R U R2 U'.
No rotations and all that.
Easily continues into (R' U R) (r2' U' r)

General rule for 2nd block is to use only RrMU moves, with no rotations.

2nd Block y R' U R2 U R' M U M' y L F2 L' y' M U2 y R U' R' U2 R U R' y'

Whoa F2L again.
Had to rotate for it too.
Try (r' U r) U2 (r' U' r)

L6E: U M' U' M U F2 M F2 M'

Wow.
Why not just M' U2 M U2?

---

L6E: U M' U' M' U2 U F2 M F2 M' ( I found this after 5 min. It's not my quick lookahead)

Why?
It's almost what I got.

Here was my thought-process.
4a should be simple Moo-case.

I was tracking UL and UR edge for 4b (I usually start looking for them at CMLL), so I knew to do the Moo with a U' to align the edges so they go on the same face at the end of the moo.

Plus, the edge was between the "side corners" (same or opposite color as the edge, L/R color), so it's one of those familiar combined 4a+4b steps that you should always look out for to avoid wasted moves in L6E (just means I can insert directly with M' at the end of moo, instead of bringing both edges to the D face with an M).

For 4c, I saw the BU sticker during 4b, matched the FU sticker, so I knew that if it was a Fuu, I had to do an M or M' first (opposite stickers mean either U2 or M2 first).

---

Also, not sure if it was just a coincidence, but no need to solve the pairs around the LD/RD edge (ala F2L).

Building the same first block:
I see I can either connect
1) ULB corner with UR edge (after flipping the edge)
2) Connect BRD corner with FU edge, with B R2 (and the R2 also flips the edge for #1)

And so you get B R2 B F' D2 R U' B

Probably not optimal, but I just wanted to show a pair that includes the LD edge instead.

 

[SpeaX]

Ok thank you for your advice. Chesscakecuber, I'm sorry but I can't look carefuly your solve because, I solve the cube with the green in front of me, orange at the right and yellow at the bottom so I can't see exactly why you do this or that. I hope you understand. Bundat I didn't understand all but I would try to answer:

Yes I have a problem with rotations. I must work on this.
Aah F2L my problem. One day I learn some F2L, but I never learnt Fridrich. So I do F2L so many times... Same to the second block, I'm trying to find solve without all of this but it's very difficult.

Thank you very much for the "F2 M F2 M' " When I learnt Roux, teacher told me to do this in this case. It's really hard to "fingertricks" it but indeed M' U2 M U2 is easier.
I didn't really understand this part about the last six edges. Can you explain again please ?

(As I said, don't hesitate to correct my english it's really important for me ! ^^ )

Can someone do this scramble with my orientation, that would help me a lot.

Good night.

 

[GuRoux]

Scramble (by qq timer): U B' U F B' R B L D F2 L2 B2 L' D2 B2 U2 L2 U2 R' U2


y2 x
FirstBlock(Red,yellowbottom) - D' B' D' U' R U2 F2
SecondBlock(Orange,yellowbottome) - U M' U r2 U2 R U' R2 U2 r U2 r' U' R
CMLL - U R' U R2 D r' U2 r D' R2 U' R
LSE - U' M' U' M' U' M U' M U'

 

[Kirjava]

Roux is preferably rotationless

there are rotation based solutions that are better than rotationless solutions for certain cases

 

[bundat]

Wow really?
I was under the general impression that I should try to avoid it the entire solve (except for rotations in CMLL algs).
Although I don't really remember why.

Are you talking about things like:
setup (from state where 2 blocks are solved): y R U' R' y'
I'd actually try to solve that by doing U M U R' U2 R (instead of y R U R' y')
Not sure which is better.

Or are you talking about something else completely?
(although I would also like to know what you'd do in that case)

 

[Kirjava]

Wow really?
I was under the general impression that I should try to avoid it the entire solve

I'm only talking about first block cases

U M U R' U2 R

U' (M'R') U r

 

[SpeaX]

Ok so I'm 8-10-5-8 today, when Im regular but in fact I'm average of 12: 33.xx
I think it's because my first and second block are irregular : Sometimes I solved them in 12s, sometimes 20-25. The main problems for me are rotations and lookahead. So I've some questions:

-How can I be rotationless without opposite or color neutral ? How can I practise it ? I prefer stay with my orientation, it's easier for the lookahead of course.
-For the last step I'm used to do only Moo to solve the EO. Is it good ?
-CMLL are okay I guess

 

[pijok]

-How can I be rotationless without opposite or color neutral ? How can I practise it ? I prefer stay with my orientation, it's easier for the lookahead of course.
-For the last step I'm used to do only Moo to solve the EO. Is it good ?

1) What do rotations have to do with CN? Just use RrUM moves for second block and you don't need rotations...
2) Only M'UM'? You should at least use MUM' and M'U2M', too

 

[CheesecakeCuber]

Yup, I agree with pijok. And like Kirjava said, rotations are ok in some FB cases because they're just so much better.

 

[SpeaX]

Ok so this is my first try without rotations !

Scramble: D2 F R2 D2 L2 F' U2 F R2 U2 B2 R' D B' F' L D B2 L B
Inspection: No
FB: R F' L U2 L U' L' U2 F2 U2 L' U2 L (13)
SB: R U' R2 U R' U R U R2 U' R' U' R' U2 R M U' M2 U2 R' U' R(22)
CMLL (2-look): U' R U R' U' R' F R F'// F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F' (26)
L6E:U M U2 M' U M' U2 M' U M' U M' U2 M U2 M2 U M U2 M' U2 M2(22)