[Help Thread] Roux Discussion and Help

Renslay said:
I knew Roux first; so it helped with Heise a lot. :)

I guess it helps, since both of them heavily relies on block building.
Click to expand...

I'll probably learn Heise anyway because it look interesting, thanks.

i think roux blockbuilding helps with roux blockbuilding more than heise blockbuilding, which is probably much harder.

try this program to practice making good first blocks: http://cubegrass.appspot.com/block_trainer/
Click to expand...

Dude this is so awesome thanks
 
Wow, that's a great tool - thanks for posting that link. I'm just getting to the point where I can do a complete Roux solve with minimal looking at my cheat sheet, and improving my block building is going to be my next priority once I firm up my step 3 and UL/UR a bit more.
 
cashis said:
M U2 M' U2 M2
Click to expand...

TDM said:
Don't have any better algs for those EP cases other than what's been suggested already for case 1, and the inverse of the setup for case 2.

1) flip DF+UB: M' U' M U' M' U' M' (or swap U's with Us)
2) M' U' M' U' M U' M' (or swap U's with Us)
Click to expand...

Renslay said:
1) M U2 M' U2 M2 or M' u2 M u2.
2) M2 U2 M' U2 M or u2 M u2 M'.

Recognition: keep tracking of the BU or the DB sticker (or peek if you can't track).

Also for a 3-cycle on the M layer note the perfectly fitting edge (DF in the first case, UF in the second case) and the completely-not-fitting edge (DB in the first case, DF in the second case).

(completely-not-fitting = none of the stickers are matching with the centers)

a) Make an M / M' / M2 move such that the perfectly fitting edge is on the bottom, the completely-not-fitting edge is on the top: M (first case) M2 (second case).
b) U2
c) M' if those edges were on the back after step a). M if those edges were on the front after step a).
d) U2
e) Finish the cube with the corresponding M / M' / M2 move.



Mines are:

1) DF+UB = M' U M U' M' U* M*
2) DB+UF = M' U M' U M U* M*

Where U* can be U or U' and M* can be M or M', depends on the UL/UR edges.
Click to expand...

Thanks people, i will try out the algs and see which one suits me.
Also, any good alg for these cases,

Setup 1 : U2 M'U2 M U2 M U2 M

Setup 2 : D2 M D2 M'

Edit : Thats a very helpful and precise explanation, thanks Renslay. Though it is hard to quickly recognize the fitting and non-fitting edge during solves, I hope it improves with practice.
 
Last edited:
number of times: 50/50
best time: 13.80
worst time: 23.49

current avg5: 18.94 (σ = 1.46)
best avg5: 17.56 (σ = 3.22)

current avg12: 19.21 (σ = 1.45)
best avg12: 18.68 (σ = 2.04)

session avg: 19.53 (σ = 1.64)
session mean: 19.46

Roux PBs :)

I'm considering of switching completely since I don't really want to do CFOP anymore...
 
rollerking321 said:
Also, any good alg for these cases,

Setup 1 : U2 M'U2 M U2 M U2 M

Setup 2 : D2 M D2 M'
Click to expand...

First case:
a) fitting edge is DB, non-fitting edge is UB. No need to do any M movement. Both edges are on the back.
b) U2
c) Both edges were on the back: M'
d) U2
e) Obviously M'.

Full solution: U2 M' U2 M'

Second case:
a) fitting edge is UB, non-fitting edge is UF. An M' move is needed: fitting edge is DB, non-fitting edge is UB. Both are on the back.
b) U2
c) Both edges were on the back: M'
d) U2
e) M2

Overall: M' U2 M' U2 M2

It will come to you after practice.
Also try to predict the fitting and non-fitting edges during the UL/UR step (Step 4b of LSE). In that way you don't have to peek the down side or the back side of the cube. This seems hard, and requires a lot of practice, but these 3-perms are the most frequent, so you will eventually practice them a lot. :)

With those steps from a) to e) every 3-perms on the M layer can be solved in 5 moves. Sometimes in 4 moves, since a) or e) are not always necessary - the first case is a good example for that.
 
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Is there a table anywhere that shows the relative frequency of the different corner orientations in Roux step 3?

I'm learning 2-look CMLL from Waffle's page (http://wafflelikescubes.webs.com/2lookcmll.htm) and noticed that the frequency of corner permutations in the second step is not equal. It's actually 1/6 Solved, 1/6 Diagonal, and 4/6 Adjacent.

Are the eight different corner permutation algorithms equally likely, or are some cases more common that others? Mostly just curious :)

Thanks!
 
dboeren said:
Is there a table anywhere that shows the relative frequency of the different corner orientations in Roux step 3?

I'm learning 2-look CMLL from Waffle's page (http://wafflelikescubes.webs.com/2lookcmll.htm) and noticed that the frequency of corner permutations in the second step is not equal. It's actually 1/6 Solved, 1/6 Diagonal, and 4/6 Adjacent.

Are the eight different corner permutation algorithms equally likely, or are some cases more common that others? Mostly just curious :)

Thanks!
Click to expand...
For CO, all cases are the same (4/27) except H (2/27) and O (1/27).
 
OK, so I've been working on my Roux Blocks the last few days and dropping a few seconds each day.

Basically, each night I try to do 6x average of 12:
7/18: 46.12 avg
7/19: 41.38 avg
7/20: 37.42 avg

But, I'm still using the beginner method from DeeDubb's tutorials where I first put the edge in the bottom-middle slot, then put the corner on the top layer, turn it to the right position, do an M' to pair them up, and finally move them to the right position to drop them in. However, I expect there is a better method for this that will save me significant time once I learn it.

What tutorials (video or otherwise) would you recommend for learning a better Roux Blocks method?

Also, I've seen several videos where someone uses a mostly de-stickered cube to illustrate block building. Is this just for instructional clarity, or would it be worth picking up a cheap cube to de-sticker and practice this way? I don't mind spending a few bucks if it will help me learn faster.

Thanks!
 
dboeren said:
OK, so I've been working on my Roux Blocks the last few days and dropping a few seconds each day.

Basically, each night I try to do 6x average of 12:
7/18: 46.12 avg
7/19: 41.38 avg
7/20: 37.42 avg

But, I'm still using the beginner method from DeeDubb's tutorials where I first put the edge in the bottom-middle slot, then put the corner on the top layer, turn it to the right position, do an M' to pair them up, and finally move them to the right position to drop them in. However, I expect there is a better method for this that will save me significant time once I learn it.

What tutorials (video or otherwise) would you recommend for learning a better Roux Blocks method?

Also, I've seen several videos where someone uses a mostly de-stickered cube to illustrate block building. Is this just for instructional clarity, or would it be worth picking up a cheap cube to de-sticker and practice this way? I don't mind spending a few bucks if it will help me learn faster.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Cool, keep up the good work. Don't bother getting one of those cubes, it's like you said, just so you can see exactly where the pieces are moving. For the first block, definitely try to do it in less moves. You have the whole cube to use so solve it as efficiently as you can. I think deedub has some other solves in his channel where he shows other block techniques, and you can copy those and see what he's doing, and also make your own. But the first block shouldn't be algorithmic at all. The second block is okay to use that method with, but if you can see another way to pair up the pieces and put them in go ahead and do it. Don't time yourself when you're practising making the first block, or you won't see new ways to build it.
 
dboeren said:
OK, so I've been working on my Roux Blocks the last few days and dropping a few seconds each day.

Basically, each night I try to do 6x average of 12:
7/18: 46.12 avg
7/19: 41.38 avg
7/20: 37.42 avg

But, I'm still using the beginner method from DeeDubb's tutorials where I first put the edge in the bottom-middle slot, then put the corner on the top layer, turn it to the right position, do an M' to pair them up, and finally move them to the right position to drop them in. However, I expect there is a better method for this that will save me significant time once I learn it.

What tutorials (video or otherwise) would you recommend for learning a better Roux Blocks method?

Also, I've seen several videos where someone uses a mostly de-stickered cube to illustrate block building. Is this just for instructional clarity, or would it be worth picking up a cheap cube to de-sticker and practice this way? I don't mind spending a few bucks if it will help me learn faster.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

This can help for the first block:
http://lar5.com/cube/fas1.html
Although it teaches the first step of Petrus (2x2x2 block), it can help for block building in Roux.

This is also a very good (if not an excellent) block trainer:
http://cubegrass.appspot.com/block_trainer/
(If you don't work with those colors, just turn your cube before).

This can search you for optimal first blocks:
http://laire.fi/jarcs/
You can even give it a certain scramble.
It can solve the second block optimally too, but I'm not sure you can learn from that. Even top Rouxers can't find the optimal SB most of the time.

This can help for the second block:
http://grrroux.free.fr/method/Step_2.html
 
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