Possible 2011 WCA Regulations Changes

[qqwref]

But for those of you who are saying that 4 events is too much and that 4BLD is very similar to 5BLD, I am somewhat puzzled that you are not also suggesting that the 5x5, 6x6, and 7x7 speed events also be removed, as they are all very similar to the 4x4.

As someone with a lot of experience in bigcubes, 4x4 and 5x5 are extremely different in terms of speedsolving methods and the feel of the solve, once you get good. The centers and edge pairing are substantially different, and the parities on 4x4 have a big impact too. As an example of the difference, Hsuan Chang is ranked 5th in 5x5 and 89th (!) in 4x4.

6x6 and 7x7 are pretty similar to each other, but they are also pretty different from the 5x5 because of more complicated edge and center stages. And yet, Chujian Gan is ranked 3rd in 7x7 and 85th in 6x6. I'd personally say we don't really need both events, but they are both far shorter than 5BLD, and in addition having them both official makes V-Cubes more likely to continue supporting the community.

 

[riffz]

As someone with a lot of experience in bigcubes, 4x4 and 5x5 are extremely different in terms of speedsolving methods and the feel of the solve, once you get good. The centers and edge pairing are substantially different, and the parities on 4x4 have a big impact too. As an example of the difference, Hsuan Chang is ranked 5th in 5x5 and 89th (!) in 4x4.

6x6 and 7x7 are pretty similar to each other, but they are also pretty different from the 5x5 because of more complicated edge and center stages. And yet, Chujian Gan is ranked 3rd in 7x7 and 85th in 6x6. I'd personally say we don't really need both events, but they are both far shorter than 5BLD, and in addition having them both official makes V-Cubes more likely to continue supporting the community.

And I agree with you. But some could also argue the differences between 4BLD and 5BLD in a similar manner, which was my point. I realize that 7x7 is still faster than 4BLD, but it's up to the organizer to hold it anyway, so I don't really see the problem.

 

[Cubing321]

For knock-offs, aslong as it has 6 sides and 6 colors I dont think it should matter about the internals...

 

[Shack]

Chris H.: I love you I really do. Don't understand me wrong, I deeply admire the memorization of cards, that's why I added it in the hope nobody would get me wrong. I have the same admiration for 4 and 5 BLD. To my pride I actually can solve a 4x4 BLD now I am still convinced though that especially the 3 big BLD events (not big-cube events ;-) are more memory sport than cubing (or SPEEDcubing). Because it is so far away from my aspect of 'speedcubing' I think 3 of those events are just too many.

I somehow find it really funny that your official 4x4 BLD is with a +2 ^^

 

[Erik]

That wasn't my only 'success'

 

[Stefan]

I realize that 7x7 is still faster than 4BLD

7x7) 3:45.27 + 3:27.34 + 3:28.27 + three 7x7 scrambles
4bBLD) 4:42.34 + one 4x4 scramble

 

[Mike Hughey]

7x7) 3:45.27 + 3:27.34 + 3:28.27 + three 7x7 scrambles
4bBLD) 4:42.34 + one 4x4 scramble

Yes, and with typical scrambling times by typical scramblers, three 7x7x7 speedsolves at WR speed would take longer than three 4x4x4 BLD solves at WR speed.

 

[riffz]

Good point.

 

[Sebastien]

Not to forget that 7x7x7 is usually splitted into 2 groups instead of 1 for 4x4x4 BLD.

Considering other topics:

displays: I have no idea why people discuss topics here, which are not even mentioned in the regulations.

certificates:

6d) Organisation teams of competitions should have (at least) certificates for all category winners, signed by the leader of the organisation team and by the WCA delegate.

Obviously the regulations allow the organisaers to do whatever they want. Certificates are no "must have" and also they don't say anything about a certificate per category.

Team BLD: Team BLD is really fun. But that's it. It's a typical fun event. We will never be able to ensure regulations sufficiently on a standard competition for this event.
Considering the "social" argument: Why searching for social events as we already have so much sociality in every competition? Also thats no argument for making it official. Still Team BLD can be held as unofficial event on every competition.

 

[Erik]

Where is it mentioned that displays are something within the regulations? I pointed it out as an inefficiency during most competitions. Don't you like the suggestion?

I think 6d is not clear enough about the certificates since you and me read the regulation and both understood something different, and reading the other reactions we are not the only ones. Besides this... again: don't you like this as a suggestion?

 

[StachuK1992]

One really big point against TeamBLD being official:
A lot of newcomers (you know those ones that average 1min for 3x3 at their first competition...) tend to not know the rules. While they really should bother to look over things, I've seen people not know how +2s are measured much too frequently. Most rules are fairly standard between events (all cubic puzzles go by nearly the same rules)

With TeamBLD, fairly complex rules will have to be made; ones that newcomers probably won't bother to read.

What I fear is that this event would have quite the number of teams who have NO idea what they're doing, breaking rules that they didn't know existed.

-statue

 

[Erik]

Stachu: that's a very irrelevant argument in my opinion. If you compete you should know the rules. How can you sign up for an event if you don't know the rules? Every competitor is expected to know the official regulations anyway, if people really compete without knowing the rules its their own fault. I agree with some other arguments against Team BLD but not this one.

 

[DavidWoner]

Yeah I love DNFing people who don't bother to read the regulations, it's what they get for being lazy.

 

[StachuK1992]

Erik:
While that's a pretty way to look at it, I'm trying to be realistic. As much as we say "don't register if you don't know the rules," people will still do it.
I'm worried about competition time being wasted, not teaching some 12 year olds that they need to read.

 

[Erik]

Stachu: what complex rules do you see? It are the same rules as BLD plus normal cubing combined. The only rule you have is who can touch the puzzle. If you are really worried about people not knowing the rules you can just do a demo solve before starting the event. That is been done sometimes at competitions with newcomers just for 3x3. I think it would work very well for team BLD too.
And like said before, if people don't know the rules it's their own fault. If you get a DNF because of it, you learned it anyway. After that you have the next attempt and have learned the rule you didn't before..

 

[qqwref]

7x7) 3:45.27 + 3:27.34 + 3:28.27 + three 7x7 scrambles
4bBLD) 4:42.34 + one 4x4 scramble

It is worth noting that all good 7x7 competitors (that is, lots of people) will be under twice the WR time, while only a few 4BLD competitors in the world will. The spread for big BLD events is far greater because of the low number of solves people do before competing. (4BLD solves are much harder, obviously, but this point holds). And 5BLD is about 3 times as long with the same spread.

 

[qqwref]

Question: to everyone who enjoys DNFing people who don't know the regulations, are you sure that all competitions where you did this were:
- clearly announced as WCA-official and pursuant to WCA regulations, for those who do not already follow such things in the community?
- in a venue with internet access, or else in a venue with at least one available printed copy of the regulations?


I think team BLD is a very good example of an event that really needs a trial period before it can be official. We have to iron some things out (regulation details, organization issues such as deciding whether to let someone be in more than one team so they can be a caller AND a solver, training some judges) before it becomes a real event, if it will become one, and I don't think we've satisfactorily done that yet.

 

[emolover]

They need to add relays. Like the 2-5 and 2-4.

 

[Bryan]

I'm worried about competition time being wasted

And that's one thing with TeamBLD, is one of the people doesn't even need to know how to solve. I did TeamBLD with my mom at Cubetcha and we got a 9:00.25 (granted, she screwed up and lied to me which cost us a bunch of time). Yes, I know you can implement time limits. But even then, you get people who sign up anyway and DNF the first solve because they go over the limit. Maybe I'll try TeamBLD with my 4-year-old sometime.....

 

[TMOY]

They need to add relays. Like the 2-5 and 2-4.

The problems with such relays is the lack of balance between the different skills required; the winner will usually be the fastest at the biggest cube, not the most skilled cuber overall.
They are fun to do as unofficial events but they don't deserve to be official for that reason.