Memory Methods

masterofthebass said:
Yeah, and he had like 500 images for each piece or something crazy like that. I think his memo system is so refined that it's almost impossible to make a mistake in memo.
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He DNFs just as much as everyone, if not more. He is just capable of getting it right when he needs it! Which is what counts!

And to be honest, whats the fun in BLD if you are sure you get it right every time :P
 
idk know how Matyas all the stuff he does and to be honest im not sure anyone will ever know because he doest say much about his methods. he's not THAT godly good but he is really good. and yeah memo in 3 seconds? wtf?? lol
 
I find it useful to use two seperate methods for corners and edges, so you don't get confused, e.g. rather than memoing 20 numbers, i memo 12 for edges and do corners in shapes. Im about 50% faster this way than pure numbers.
 
malcolm said:
I find it useful to use two seperate methods for corners and edges, so you don't get confused, e.g. rather than memoing 20 numbers, i memo 12 for edges and do corners in shapes. Im about 50% faster this way than pure numbers.
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I completely agree. I'm in the process of learning a separate memory system for corners. It's not really all that different from what I already use, it's still letter pairs. But I will use a completely different set of prepared words/images for corners than for edges. I think that might make me faster for 3x3, I've experimented with it a bit.

I would also be very interested to hear what Matyas does. I personally like the atmosphere in cubing better when everybody shares information. But Matyas I can understand how with your memory method being a huge portion of your speed that wanting to stay competitive, especially with the progress in cubing in general over the past year, means keeping that method secret. So I'm not trying to put you in a bad light, I can completely understand why you would want to keep your method secret, and I respect that entirely.

But that doesn't stop me from wondering about how you do it ;-)

From what I understand in a previous post by Matyas he uses 500 prepared words for each piece. This works out to 12,000 prepared words for the edges of a 4x4x4 and 6,000 for the edges of a 3x3x3. From what I understand most memory masters for speed cards and numbers and the like stop in the 2000-3000 image range. I also remember recent debate within the last year or so of some memory masters considering trying to develop a 10,000 image system. Since Matyas uses more than that this has already been done.

Matyas, you're already without question at the top of the cubing hall of fame, why not also do it for memory sports as well? I see no reason why you couldn't adapt your memo system for all their events and be just as world class over there as you are for cubing. This question may be silly if you've already tried it, but have you tried memorizing a deck of cards? I think you'd be absolutely phenomenal at it.

Just my opinion,
Chris
 
Yeah, my corners are very good can memo permutation in 15-30 seconds mostly, but edges are v slow more like a min-min:30 need more practice, and might try learning a better method.
 
cmhardw said:
malcolm said:
I find it useful to use two seperate methods for corners and edges, so you don't get confused, e.g. rather than memoing 20 numbers, i memo 12 for edges and do corners in shapes. Im about 50% faster this way than pure numbers.
Click to expand...

I completely agree. I'm in the process of learning a separate memory system for corners. It's not really all that different from what I already use, it's still letter pairs. But I will use a completely different set of prepared words/images for corners than for edges. I think that might make me faster for 3x3, I've experimented with it a bit.
Click to expand...

You used the same images for corners and edges? No wonder, you got confused ;).

Malcolm: The reason why you're faster with "shapes" than with numbers is just the lack of practice with numbers.

cmhardw said:
I would also be very interested to hear what Matyas does. I personally like the atmosphere in cubing better when everybody shares information. But Matyas I can understand how with your memory method being a huge portion of your speed that wanting to stay competitive, especially with the progress in cubing in general over the past year, means keeping that method secret. So I'm not trying to put you in a bad light, I can completely understand why you would want to keep your method secret, and I respect that entirely.
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I agree with you, that it would be cool, if everyone shares his methods/secrets. But i made following experience: Someone asked me, which method i use for memorization. I answered "images + journey". But this guy didn't want to think that much, so he kept asking things like "which image do you use for the UF piece". I explained him, that it doesn't make sense if i tell him all my images. If i didn't tell him anything about my method, i wouldn't have been buged by him. That's a good reason for me not to tell people what my memory system is.
(Joey and Pedro, don't worry, i don't mean you :))

cmhardw said:
From what I understand in a previous post by Matyas he uses 500 prepared words for each piece. This works out to 12,000 prepared words for the edges of a 4x4x4 and 6,000 for the edges of a 3x3x3. From what I understand most memory masters for speed cards and numbers and the like stop in the 2000-3000 image range. I also remember recent debate within the last year or so of some memory masters considering trying to develop a 10,000 image system. Since Matyas uses more than that this has already been done.
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I wouldn't see the 500 words as different images. These words also include verbs and adjectives. I believe you just create the story intuitively without prepared images (which is the case for most memory masters), which needs a lot of practice of course :).
 
yep, from what I understood he has 500 words in a "class", like, medical stuff, maybe water stuff, fire, dunno :D

I was thinking about this like 20 min ago, getting back home...

the memory guys use a PAO method for cards (at least most of them :D)
so, they have 52 persons, 52 actions and 52 objects...

when combined, those 156 "things" can form 132600 images (!)...

so, they kinda use that much images, but they don't think about it that way :) haha

oh, and Tim, I don't remember you "hiding" your memory system from me :) you always helped me and answered my questions

but I can't say the same about Kai...:D haha...just kidding
I asked him once how me memorised and he said "access denied"
but after I decided to use images and journeys/roman rooms, he told me what he uses...I'm not sure if I can tell everybody, so...:)

but yeah, it would be really cool to know how Matyas memorises, but as Chris already said, it's his "right" to keep it to him, if he wants that...

I once decided to analyse his 54.xx solve to try to figure out how he solves...but he asked me not to do it, explained his point and I agreed :)
 
Pedro said:
I was thinking about this like 20 min ago, getting back home...

the memory guys use a PAO method for cards (at least most of them :D)
so, they have 52 persons, 52 actions and 52 objects...

when combined, those 156 "things" can form 132600 images (!)...

so, they kinda use that much images, but they don't think about it that way :) haha
Click to expand...

That's pretty interesting actually, as that would mean if you memo edges with pao (like I do), you'd have over a thousand images you could create! add in a journey system, and you're getting ridiculous numbers (assuming "X Y'ing a Z" at location a1 is a different image than at location a2)!

pretty neat
somewhat related: http://www.quirkology.com/USA/Experiment_totalRecall.shtml
 
I have not yet attempted a BLD solve, I'm still getting myself accustomed to the Pochmann Method sighted but I am thinking of assigning an image to each piece and then modifying the image so that I know which sticker is in my buffer. Like if it is green zombifying my image, putting it under water if it is blue, setting it on fire etc.
Eventually I will add a verb to each piece but that will be after I can do it with just images.
Edit: Combined with Roman room (more Roman my whole house) and this method my first attempt I went through the cycle once and was off by two switched edges I think from wrong setup and un-setup. It was one cycle that had all 12 edges if it had multiple cycles I would have gotten confused.
 
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For some strange reason I had ALOT of trouble comming up with images for the pochmann system, so I had to come up with something else which is alot more difficult, [letters+visual]

if anyone has any suggestions for an alternative memo method that works good with pochmann, fill me in, and no I didn't like most of the ones i read in here, other than the pochmann images thing, but I seem to draw blanks everytime i try to think up some images to assign, i dont know why! hah

also what might help me is a list of images you use for pochmann memo, but why would anyone help me anyway? :P
 
I havent actually gotten a BLD solve yet because of memo problems, so Ive been trying to think of one to work for me. I kind liked being able to use numbers in 3 cycles, but hated the set up move limitations so I switched to Pochmann, which doesn't really have set up move limitations other than making sure you dont mess up the corners or edges in the shooting position.

So I was thinking of a way to incorporate numbers even though it solves by stickers, which would be a lot more numbers than 20 cubies. What if I kept the numbering system of the cubie positions Like for edges 1 =UF 2 = UR etc.. but instead gave the cubie in the position I shoot from the number it belongs to and the sticker color I would be shooting.

Ex: I shoot my corner stickers from LBU to DFR and I hold the cube with Y on top O in front. Pretend that the RGW cubie in the position I shoot from with the red sticker on LBU which means it needs to go to BLD, I would memorize it as 8R, which gives me the position it needs to go to and the sticker I would be shooting.

Sorry if this makes no sense or won't even work, its 3 a.m so I'm tired. Don't ridicule me too much if this is bad :P
 
Wouldn't that be more memorizing than 20 cubies? Actually I guess not since its not like you solve every sticker on every cubie, so it would be the same. Thanks :)
 
I'm having more success with my newer memo method. Although slower, it's more efficient for me.

EDIT: I use pure visual, I forgot to include that in my post which is really silly considering it was the focus of my post. :P
 
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Can anyone give me example of the Roman-room method? I don't get it. I'm new to blindfold cubing.
 
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