Intuitive 3-Style as a Beginner Blind Method

[newtonlkh]

Any suggestions for R face interchanges?

I think i am starting to get better with corners with U interchanges, but sometimes the conjugates are quite ugly and I tend to make mistakes when undoing. So I am trying to learn R face interchange, and I found that to be so difficult! I am still practicing sighted, so if I change the buffer to RUF temporarily it would be better (of course, then I could also turn the cube to make R face U). But that is completely useless for actual BLD, so I try keep using UFR, but than I am stuck so bad.

Thanks!!

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[dudefaceguy]

Any suggestions for R face interchanges?

I think i am starting to get better with corners with U interchanges, but sometimes the conjugates are quite ugly and I tend to make mistakes when undoing. So I am trying to learn R face interchange, and I found that to be so difficult! I am still practicing sighted, so if I change the buffer to RUF temporarily it would be better (of course, then I could also turn the cube to make R face U). But that is completely useless for actual BLD, so I try keep using UFR, but than I am stuck so bad.

Thanks!!

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First of all, congratulations on sticking with it and progressing! If you are having trouble reversing long conjugates, I'd suggest trying to shorten your conjugates before learning R interchanges. Your conjugates shouldn't need to be longer than 2 moves. If you're stuck on a long conjugate, try looking at some commutator spreadsheets. I like Jack Cai's: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...azoFNHJ0GidKrUm8NC0OzNcRdk/edit#gid=522554293

JPerm also has a very user-friendly sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rCpr-RVZVHq4S3ctRvuCfl37uy8A27okymzt5yqMPvk/edit

These commutator lists are great for getting new ideas about how to construct commutators. Some of the top cubers do tend to use long conjugates though. JPerm also categorizes the comms based on how he thinks about them, which is different than how I do it. You might like his method better than mine.

R interchanges really are very difficult -- I am just starting to use them in solves, and I always feel like I am messing them up. Ultimately, you don't need to learn R interchanges (or any other interchange) at all. JPerm uses only D and U interchanges for corners, for example. It may be easier to do D interchanges, solving your C buffer to the first sticker in the letter pair.

In terms of using RUF as a temporary "practice buffer," I think you mean that you would still use a U interchange, but your buffer sticker would be M, right? I never thought of that, but it could be a useful training technique. The goal is to eventually be able to recognize interchanges when the stickers are on the side, rather than the face, of the interchange layer. You could also practice this by using "side sticker" D-layer interchanges. For example, you can do the letter pair PH with a D2 interchange, inserting the buffer to P.

My advice is to keep working on your U interchanges until they are very good, and try adding D interchanges instead of R. Remember that any time you spend practicing R interchanges will take time away from practicing U interchanges. You want to have one really solid set of comms before you start branching out.

But hey, I'm no expert -- I just made this guide because there was literally no information about intuitive 3 style as a beginner blind method. So, you are one of the first explorers as well. Now that I've thought about this more, I think I will start practicing those "side sticker" D-layer interchanges. That seems like an easier transition than R-layer interchanges.

 

[newtonlkh]

Here is the same cube state, looking from different perspectives

A: it looks like a B move will set up sticker 2 to U face, for interchange
B: it looks like a 12 move commutator is required, because sticker 3 is on D face
C: it looks like piece 3 is trapped between piece 1 and 2, and a complicated conjugate is required
D: it looks like a R face interchange is favorable.

The same case look so different from different perspectives!

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[dudefaceguy]

Here is the same cube state, looking from different perspectives

A: it looks like a B move will set up sticker 2 to U face, for interchange
B: it looks like a 12 move commutator is required, because sticker 3 is on D face
C: it looks like piece 3 is trapped between piece 1 and 2, and a complicated conjugate is required
D: it looks like a R face interchange is favorable.

The same case look so different from different perspectives! //uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200625/3c3f1118e1c9a99de7f9f48efce473eb.jpg//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200625/5ed7db3843ef15996cfaeaa74ff3fb08.jpg//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200625/0fabace510144d0c01696031cfa6e638.jpg//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200625/83625dadea356f1599b74c56ab47d7e5.jpg

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This is great, a prefect illustration of why 3 style will never get boring for me.

Your example B is actually a good candidate for an R interchange as well - conjugate with a D.

For your example C, I would conjugate with R. This is similar to the one case in which I always conjugate the buffer to the D layer and interchange the other two pieces.

In your example D, an R interchange is not possible as an 8 move pure comm - you can do a 12 mover with the 5 move insert though. Or conjugate to an 8 move U interchange with B' L'. Hmm, now I really want to see what the top cubers do for IQ.... Looks like Jack and Dylan both use a 3 move conjugate for this one. You could also do R' L' which is an interesting conjugate, and cancels with the first move of the comm for a U layer interchange. So many possibilities!

 

[dudefaceguy]

I think I'll start using this, as I've had a hard time switching to full 3style (I use M2/OP as of now). I also like how intuitive and free it is as well as the parity at the end of the solve.

Excellent, another convert haha! I think you would like the Jake Klassen video I posted earlier in the thread: https://www.speedsolving.com/threads/intuitive-3-style-as-a-beginner-blind-method.77200/post-1366049

Towards the end, he talks about how he recommends figuring out 3-style yourself intuitively, instead of looking at it as a monumental and exacting project to memorize the best algs immediately and systematically. He also talks about your goals for learning 3-style: basically he says you should only do it for fun, or to be truly world-class. M2/OP is sufficient for everything else.

I do it for fun, and I think this is the most fun way to learn 3-style (I know that other people love memorizing algs systematically -- just not me). I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one!

A practice technique that really helped me was trying the same scramble again if I made a mistake. Keep at it until you get it right, trying to isolate and diagnose the problem that caused the mistake. Good luck, and let me know how it goes!

 

[quchen]

Just chiming in, I’ve used this thread as a primary resource to try to learn 3-style multiple times now, thank you so much!

My sighted solves are very slow but I much like you enjoy the puzzle nature of them. I have some questions, most of them hinging on that I’d like to use as few algs (~memorized anythings) as possible:

1. The R²DR²D'R² setup for V→C insertion is a bit algorithmic, do you have an intuitive explanation?
2. Do you have advice on edge flips and corner twists?
   
   For twisted edges I grudgingly set up to a UF/UB flip with (M'UM'UM'U²) (MUMUMU²). Is there something like »do two algs, and stick a different letter between, like to flip QA do QO OA« so I can go back to coming up with my own commutators?
   
   For twisted corners, I use a setup of R'DRD'R'DRD' (flips the C buffer sticker towards the first D move’s direction – reverse all D moves to flip the other way), then put the other twisted corner in place, reverse. Conceptually this should work, but I’ve had (literally) zero success with this method, and the long setup is a bit of an algorithm as well. I always mess it up by setting up the wrong corner or the wrong orientation.
3. Your solution for parity is a J-perm, which you suggest doing as a wide-move CAB commutator. Can you explain why the wide moves work here? If it’s just a »because it works« then we’re in alg territory again :-/

Blind or sighted, I feel like this could become the first method where it is *me* who solves the cube, and not some alg sheet.

 

[CatoWeeksbooth]

The R²DR²D'R² setup for V→C insertion is a bit algorithmic, do you have an intuitive explanation?

I think you mean R2 D' R2 D R2. The one you wrote is a W -> B insertion. Assuming you mean R2 D' R2 D R2 (the explanation for your alg would be the same anyway):

Keep an eye on the three stickers on the right side of the top face (the C and B corner stickers and the V edge sticker) while executing the insert. After the initial R2 D', these three stickers will be facing down at the front of the cube. The next R2 will split them apart: The C corner sticker is replaced by the V sticker. The final D R2 moves the three down-facing stickers at the font back up to the right side of the top face, but the C sticker is still replaced by the V sticker.

 

[abunickabhi]

Thanks for sharing all the resources at one place, I can point any beginner to this thread now!