How to be sub 20

Your cross is definitely too slow. Your LL is fine; mine is the same speed and I have a sub-10 F2L. Try to plan cross in inspection and get it 8 moves or less every time. Try to find fast solutions as well as short ones. Also, try looking ahead more during F2L; if you can eliminate (or even just reduce) pauses that'll help your times by a lot.

Alright, thank you. I think I'll focus on my cross to start. How would you say the best way to practice the cross would be? Do it without looking?

Your cross is bad. Try to plan it all out in inspection.

Thank you very much. Can you give me a suggestion on how best to practice my cross? And maybe give me an average goal for how long it should take me? I don't know how long it takes most people sub 20/15 to do the cross.
 
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Thank you very much. Can you give me a suggestion on how best to practice my cross? And maybe give me an average goal for how long it should take me? I don't know how long it takes most people sub 20/15 to do the cross.
I think many people around my speed (17ish) take 2 seconds to do the cross. If you're trying to get sub-20, you'd probably want 2.5 seconds max for your cross. Try planning your cross and then doing it without looking. You don't really want to be looking for cross pieces as you're solving it. You should be trying to find your first pair, and if you can do the cross BLD then you should be able to look for other pieces while doing it.
 
I think many people around my speed (17ish) take 2 seconds to do the cross. If you're trying to get sub-20, you'd probably want 2.5 seconds max for your cross. Try planning your cross and then doing it without looking. You don't really want to be looking for cross pieces as you're solving it. You should be trying to find your first pair, and if you can do the cross BLD then you should be able to look for other pieces while doing it.

Gotcha, thank you very much. I'll be back when I'm sub 20
 
Thank you very much. Can you give me a suggestion on how best to practice my cross? And maybe give me an average goal for how long it should take me? I don't know how long it takes most people sub 20/15 to do the cross.

When I averaged sub-20 I could almost always sub-3 and sub-2 the easy cases. Try practicing cross blindfolded. Plan out the solution, then put on the blindfold and make sure you can solve it. If you can't plan out all 4, start out with 3. Then when you are comfortable with 3 pieces, do all four. Hope this helps.

Edit: ninja'd by TDM.
 
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Gotcha, thank you very much. I'll be back when I'm sub 20

OKso it's time for me to swim upstream, play devil's advocate, and tell you not to practice cross.

Actually that's not QUITE true, I'm not going to suggest NOT practicing cross, I'm just going to suggest practicing a variety of things.

So I was stuck at about 22/23 for ages. I think this is the time, for some cubers (you and me included) at which pure grinding repetitive practice ceases to be useful. Up to about 22/23 seconds, I never had to consciously practice anything. Sure, I 'drilled' a few PLLs, but more to learn them than to get faster at them. Everything I achieved up to 22/23 seconds was just through pure repetitive practice.

Then I stopped getting faster.

So here's the thing - when you stop getting faster, it's because you're not actively improving anything. Repetitive practice is only good for perfecting skills you already have. When you start out cubing, there's so much to improve on, you're spoilt for choice. You know you should be solving the cross efficiently, cutting down cube rotations, learning more LL algs, and improving the execution of them. You have a million and one things to improve, and you have them in mind (partly) when you're doing repetitive practice. So you get better at them. Really slowly and inefficiently. But the thing is that there's SO much progress to be had, you feel like you're racing ahead. One minute you're averaging 50+, a few days/weeks later it's 40, 30...

And then the roadblock, as discussed so many times in this post/thread and others.

I currently average 19.xx. My PB is 12.xx. I have a couple of 14/15s in a good average of 50. When I get solves like this I think - how can I ever improve so much that that kind of time is normal for me? Surely it's not possible. The truth of the matter is that there are still a million and one things to improve, but they're just a million and one small things, and so they're harder to notice.

Sure, in pure time sense, your cross is proportionately slower than the rest of your solve. But it's about the same as mine. Yes, shame on me, etc., etc., my cross is shocking. The thing is, I've got to sub-20 without focussing on my cross. So what have I, personally, done to break sub-20?

1. Get better PLLs - I had some that required rotations, or were just plain rubbish. I looked on various websites, watched YouTube videos, raided the wiki, posted on 'request an alg'... and I'm almost happy with my PLLs. I only know one of the 'French' G perms atm, and intend to learn the remaining 3 because they're rotationless and badass, but I keep proctastinating, as with all things!

2. Learn some one-look OLLs - yeah yeah, I'll be rubbished by everyone for this suggestion: "you don't need full OLL to be sub-20". I know. I'm not saying that. I currently know about 40 OLLs. I've not made much of an effort to learn them, but when a particular OLL comes up a lot, I look for an alg I like. Occasionally I'll just find myself on the wiki and pick a new case or set of cases to learn. I often use mirrors and inverses rather than learn new algs, so you can learn 4 cases with one alg.

3. Improve F2L efficiency - goes without saying. Look up some tricky cases and find better ways of solving them. This is responsible for most of my improvement.

I cannot look ahead.

The moral of the story is that yeah, your cross needs work, but so does everything. Eventually. When you choose to work on the cross is the important thing. If working on your cross gets you sub-20 then you will still have to work on everything else. I guess I'm just promoting a holistic approach to cubing practice - practice a little of everything, all of the time. This has got me to sub-20 (very slowly, because I'm a sucker for the timer, and have no discipline to force myself to practice properly!), and the main advantage is that I got here without any (real) lookahead, and with a sucky cross.

When I say this is an advantage, I mean that I can now look at working on my cross, or improving my (non-existent) lookahead... and I'm already sub-20. Who knows, if I spend a couple of days doing BLD crosses so my cross stops stinking, I might be sub-18/17 or whatever. Learn to actually look ahead, and the world's my oyster.

So yeah - practice everything, all of the time. There are a million and one tiny things to improve, and you'll have to improve all of them at some stage - it doesn't really matter what order they happen in.

:-)
 
Get better PLLs - I had some that required rotations, or were just plain rubbish. I looked on various websites, watched YouTube videos, raided the wiki, posted on 'request an alg'... and I'm almost happy with my PLLs. I only know one of the 'French' G perms atm, and intend to learn the remaining 3 because they're rotationless and badass, but I keep proctastinating, as with all things!
I've heard this several places and I'm eager to learn better PLLs. Can you point me in a good direction? mainly to save me time, haha.
Learn some one-look OLLs
Believe it or not, I memorized all 57 algorithms months ago. I memorized those before I was sub 40 because I was good at memorizing. In fact, I've memorized every PLL and Every OLL and had always thought that was the easy part thanks to http://badmephisto.com/ . One thing I'd like to do is learn every single algorithm backwards. I can do a few backwards using my own wit, other algs are quite tough to intuitively do backwards, though. I'd love if you could provide me a nice suggestion for finding mirrored algs.
Improve F2L efficiency
This is what I am focusing on now. I prefer to focus on one thing at a time, improve (maybe not perfect) and then move on to something else for the time being.

Thank you very much for the time you put in to your post, I read every word. I guess I was looking at my improvement in a compartmentalized way. That's just how my brain works. I see every different thing as just that, an individual, different thing for me to work on. But you're right, everything I am doing can be improved upon and I should constantly be trying to do so. anyway, thanks for the advice! I, just today, got a new record of 14.40 seconds and I practiced nothing but the cross. I can now safely do most crosses in about 2-2.5 seconds.

Edit: Could you just mention any links, videos, people, etc. that you used to improve or that you might suggest for me to check out? I'd be interested in checking them all out. I've literally gotten this far by pretty much crazybadcuber and badmephisto alone.
 
I've heard this several places and I'm eager to learn better PLLs. Can you point me in a good direction? mainly to save me time, haha.

Certainly, although I can't remember where 100% of my algs have come from. I started with all Badmephisto PLLs, but never liked his J(a). I still use some of his algs, including J(b), T, 3xG's, H, and maybe a few others.

The best place for new algs is YouTube - watch a few 'all PLL sub 1' vids, and check out the finger tricks, see what might work for you. For example, when I first started cubing, I HATED any algs with L turns, just couldn't do them quickly. Now I'm fine with L turns, but I can't really get on with B turns in algs. To each his own! You will NEVER find a single person who has 21 PLL algs that all work for you. There will be elements of picking and choosing; however I'll get you started with some good resources:

Sebastien Felix's page 'Absolute Mind' - http://absolutemind.pagesperso-orange.fr/index-angl.html (source for such awesome PLLs as the 'French' G perms - versions of Badmephisto's algs, using U'+D in place of cube rotations :D)

Sarah Strong's cubing site - http://sarah.cubing.net (just a nice bunch of OLL and PLL algs)

http://www.YouTube.com - just search for 'fast X PLL' where X is replaced by the PLL you don't like your alg for. Obviously!

If you like, I can post all of my PLLs later tonight? But like I say, you'll never find one person who has 21 algs that work for you?

Believe it or not, I memorized all 57 algorithms months ago.
OK, that's a good start. Do you use full OLL/PLL in solves? I personally find that it's one thing knowing an alg, another completely using it in a solve. For example, I know all of the small lightning bolt OLLs, and sometimes 2-look them in solves just instinctively. This is because I haven't practiced them enough in slow solves, and under time pressure you often resort to 'old' algs.

I'll talk more about slow solves in a minute.

One thing I'd like to do is learn every single algorithm backwards. I can do a few backwards using my own wit, other algs are quite tough to intuitively do backwards, though. I'd love if you could provide me a nice suggestion for finding mirrored algs.
Experiment. I posted a few days ago about some OLL algs that I found while playing around with Sune + M/M' setups. Including Sune, Antisune, their mirrors, and the wide versions of both, there are 16 different OLL cases that can be solved just using these few algs. So once you find an alg you like, see if you also like the mirror/inverse.

To mirror an alg for left/right hands, simply change the direction of all turns (prime becomes normal; normal becomes prime), and switch R and L. For example, a left handed version of the classic T perm:

(R U R' U') R' F (R2 U' R' U') (R U R' F')

would be:

(L' U' L U) L F' (L2 U L U) (L' U' L F)

Which, of course, would solve a T perm from the opposite AUF (i.e. U2 away from the Badmephisto AUF).

I think!!

Not many people use mirrored algs, as there are few people who are ambidextrous cubers. Most people find it quicker to AUF, then execute algs that are more right-hand-oriented. As a result, I don't think there's any resources for mirrored algs, you just have to experiment. I know you already memorised all OLLs, but if you take out mirrors there's really only about 30 OLL cases, so if you like mirrored algs, it's worth 30 seconds to write the alg down and take the time to flip it.

Thank you very much for the time you put in to your post, I read every word. I guess I was looking at my improvement in a compartmentalized way. That's just how my brain works. I see every different thing as just that, an individual, different thing for me to work on. But you're right, everything I am doing can be improved upon and I should constantly be trying to do so. anyway, thanks for the advice! I, just today, got a new record of 14.40 seconds and I practiced nothing but the cross. I can now safely do most crosses in about 2-2.5 seconds.
Congrats, and no worries. I just hate seeing the same generic advice regurgitated, and thought I'd chip in my 2 cents worth. The thing about generic advice is that it's generic for a reason, and that reason is that it's right! There are things that people say to those wanting to become sub 20, like "go slow and look ahead" and "practice BLD cross". And they're absolutely true and fantastic advice. But could result in you getting a 19 second average, then hitting another roadblock.

Imagine a racing driver who drives a practice lap of a circuit he's due to race on. His pit team tell him that there's a particular corner that he drives too slowly. Does he drive that one corner; reverse; drive the corner again; reverse... etc? No, he drives a full lap, but concentrates on that corner specifically. He's still practicing the whole thing, but focussing on the element that he knows he needs to improve. What about all the other corners on the circuit - is he just blindly driving round them? Nope, he's focussing on each element in isolation, and so still practicing each and improving each relative to each other.

Same thing goes for cubing: if you suck at cross, you could just solve a cross. Scramble. Solve a cross. Scramble... OR, you could concentrate on your cross while solving. Continuing into F2L, OLL, and PLL means that you get some practice at these too whilst still improving your cross.

Whilst I completely agree with compartmentalised practice (it's the most efficient way to improve aspects of your solve) it's unlikely that you will perfect a single element of your solve in isolation. For example, you could spend weeks drilling PLLs, and get them all sub-1 before you're sub 40, if you really wanted. Personally, I find that gradual improvements in all aspects is more fulfilling, because all elements improve relative to each other. I know that each aspect of my solve still has massive room for improvement - I can drill PLLs/OLLs, work on my lookahead, or BLD crosses. Or all of the above. I know nothing has been perfected, so I'm still in the happy position of knowing I can solve a cube in 19 seconds, and still have improvements to make across the board!

Sure, my progress will be slower, but I'll never get bored of cubing because my practice is full of variety.

Anyway, I promised I'd say a few words about slow practice, so here goes: DO SLOW PRACTICE. Turn off the timer, and do stuff slowly. For me, this has twice yielded 2 second jumps in averages. It's really the only way to implement new LL algs in your timed solves. You'll rarely have the confidence to throw in a new alg if you're on a 9 second solve after F2L, you'll revert to your old (slower) alg because instinct tells you to do so. If you don't do slow solves, the confidence to apply your new algs in timed solves will come VERY slowly, if at all. Slow solves not only help your F2L efficiency and lookahead, but are a great time to try and throw in the new LL algs you're trying to bring in to replace old ones.

And so we're back on holistic practice once again!

Edit: Could you just mention any links, videos, people, etc. that you used to improve or that you might suggest for me to check out? I'd be interested in checking them all out. I've literally gotten this far by pretty much crazybadcuber and badmephisto alone.

Sure, some excellent youtubers - all of them are on this forum as well:

JSkyler91 (I think he's Joseph Skyler now)
FazRulz1 (A certain Feliks Zemdegs!)
TellerWest (awesome fingertricks, even if some of them aren't overly practical!)
Brad Cottom (some great OLL tutorials and other assorted cubing stuff)
xxoxia (especially http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i37S0iJFOz0)
Cyoubix (if you haven't already found him)
The Westonian

That's about 48 hours of videos for you to be getting on with!!!
 
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Great post :)

Algs can be mirrored f/b as well as l/r in which case they don't push work to the left hand. For example, my R perms are f/b mirrors and both in <RUD>.

About compartmentalized practice, I agree to a point, but think the best approach to practice is to mix it up and do a variety of things. For example, blind cross practice is great and when focused on that I wouldn't distract myself by finishing each solve.

I compare it to running. I used to do a lot of running training, and just running over and over is great, but it was the time spent on different challenges like hill training, interval training, cross country etc that always gave me the best boosts to my road running pace.
 
There aren't 27 PLLs, there are 21 :p Other than that, great post. Also, remember to look at other websites that don't just have algs that people use, such as the wiki or algdb.net. There are some good algs on there that no one uses. I found some really nice algs on both palces, and as far as I know I'm the only person to use my Nb, V and Y perms.
 
just search for 'fast X PLL' where X is replaced by the PLL you don't like your alg for
This blew my mind because I consider myself to be of, like, not retarded intelligence, and that suggestion is such a simple, easy suggestion that for whatever reason didn't even cross my mind. So thank you very much! Honestly haha I almost hit myself when I read that because it should have been like, my first damn approach.

Do you use full OLL/PLL in solves?
Yes, I use all 57 algorithms (OLL) when they come up because honestly, they're MY old algorithms haha. Like you said sometimes in a fast solve you revert to old algorithms that might be slower, but you can do faster simply because you know it better. That's what I do except with all 57 OLLs. I should really learn some different PLLs and figure out more efficient ways to perform my OLLs because some slow me down tremendously. (for example the N PLLs)


Not many people use mirrored algs, as there are few people who are ambidextrous cubers
I wouldn't consider myself ambidextrous, but I do feel comfortable (after some drilling) with left handed algs. And, for example, sometimes I waste a U2 turn simply to do an alg with my right hand, which really only happens with the G algs (badmephistos)
The mirrored alg information you gave was very helpful. I was never sure if you switched the L to and R AND the ' to a natural or if you only switched one or the other, etc. The left handed algs I can do now are only ones I've done naturally without thinking.


anyway, thank you again for a spectacular post full of information. Again, what I think you thought was small, silly information, just happened to be stuff that hadn't even crossed my mind for whatever reason. You've helped me more than most people so far in improving my time (or at least pushing me in the right direction to improve my time) and you're pretty much the same speed as I am! Thanks again!
 
There aren't 27 PLLs, there are 21 :p
:fp

Funny, as my previous post says 11+10. Clearly I need to brush up on my maths skills. Will go back and edit the post, thanks for pointing out my glaring error!
as far as I know I'm the only person to use my Nb, V and Y perms.
I use your J(a), or at least the one you suggested to me in the Request an Alg thread - as I said, that's a great place to go. What are your V and Y algs? I like my V perm, but my Y is the 2 OLL alg. :-/
You've helped me more than most people so far in improving my time (or at least pushing me in the right direction to improve my time) and you're pretty much the same speed as I am! Thanks again!
Dammit, don't you go getting faster than me now!! I jest - feel free to sub-10 ASAP!

:p
 
I use your J(a), or at least the one you suggested to me in the Request an Alg thread - as I said, that's a great place to go. What are your V and Y algs? I like my V perm, but my Y is the 2 OLL alg. :-/
I use three Ja/L perms, depending on the AUF: R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L, [y] F U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' F' or [y'] L' U' L F L' U' L U L F' L2' U L.
My V perm is R' U R' U' R D' R' D R' y R2 U' R2' d R2. I got the optimal one from cube explorer and put in a few rotations to make it better. The normal one is also optimal, but I just find it really slow and I hate it. The Y perm I use is R' U' l D2' l' U R d R2' U' R2 U' R2' (or R' U' R F2 R' U R for the first half). But most people use the one that's 2 OLLs, because it's fast. I just don't like its length in ETM; even if it is the same in QTM I find R2 U' R2 U' R2 very fast.
E: and I recently found [y2] R' U2 R' F' R2 U' R' F' U' F R U R' F U2' R for a Y perm from a different angle. I would learn it, but I'm still trying to learn Mats' F perm which I always get wrong.
E2: and if you don't like the rotation in the V perm, R U' R U R' D R D' R [U' D] R2 U R2 D' R2 is similar but rotationless.
E3: I was looking at those G perms you talked about somewhere and found this V perm using my one: R' U R' U' R D' R' D R' [U D'] R2 U' R2' D R2
 
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Not that you care very much, but I wanted to say thank you to everyone who gave me their advice. I just got my first sub 20 Ao5 average and had I not screwed up a solve really awfully, I would have a sub 20 Ao12, too. I don't consider myself sub 20 yet, but I feel that I'm getting very close. Thanks again! I'll be checking back to this thread from now on until I hit 15 second average ;)
 
Was that to me? Usually I would agree, but for some reason I've been practicing for a whole month now without breaking sub 20 averages. I have been studying all that I can find for the F2L. Do you have any website suggestions? Video Suggestions? personal suggestions? I'll admit for some of the harder F2L cases I haven't learned actual algorithms. I've made up my own.

Here's my cubing practice, more or less in the order I've gone through them since around 25 seconds:
Practice more fluid F2L
Try to get less moves in cross
Study the PLL cases to get faster PLL recog (that was a huge problem for me), learn better PLL algs
Study various F2L positions to find better algorithms, occasionally look up algorithms if I'm stuck, stare at the cube before cross and each F2L pair trying to find move-efficient solutions
(I'd like to mention that one thing I learned by toying with ZZ: For each F2L pair I should only do at most one cube rotation, and I can solve it. This had led to me analyzing some F2L pairs and coming up with way more efficient solutions than the ones I got used to when I was at 30 seconds making them up).
 
Here's my cubing practice, more or less in the order I've gone through them since around 25 seconds:
Practice more fluid F2L
Try to get less moves in cross
Study the PLL cases to get faster PLL recog (that was a huge problem for me), learn better PLL algs
Study various F2L positions to find better algorithms, occasionally look up algorithms if I'm stuck, stare at the cube before cross and each F2L pair trying to find move-efficient solutions
(I'd like to mention that one thing I learned by toying with ZZ: For each F2L pair I should only do at most one cube rotation, and I can solve it. This had led to me analyzing some F2L pairs and coming up with way more efficient solutions than the ones I got used to when I was at 30 seconds making them up).

Thank you for this! I definitely have been working on a more fluid f2l and better cross these past weeks. I haven't studied any PLLs so I might try that, though just yesterday I found better algorithms for all of the G perms which will help me once i get used to them. Believe it or not I feel fairly comfortable that my methods for putting in F2L pieces is fairly good, the only problem is my look-ahead and finding the pairs quickly. I need to work on this.
I think it's time I buckled down and seriously gone through every pll alg I use. I'm going to try to find perfect algs for every one of them and then re-condition myself to them. Hopefully this will help me. Then, as I'm working on these PLLs I can practice a better F2L and my recognition.
 
A bit of help?

Hello! I am very new to cubing. With my current 3x3x3, I average three minutes. I use the CFOP method, along with an old Rubik's brand cube. I have all algorithms memorized, but I cannot finger trick yet (it is because of the cube). I have a Zhanchi coming soon. Can someone give me some tips to at least get my average sub-minute?
 
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