Haiyan Zhuang banned for 1-3 years

[r_517]

About Haiyan being banned for at least a year, i think this might be right if he made people quit cubing due to threats. But maybe a strong warning cud have sufficed as a first step. Like if he ever do something like this again he would be banned.

this has happened numerous times on different comps since two years ago. A number of cubers and organisers quitted cubing because of his endless harassment.

besides, when telling him that if he would make an apology before August, no punishment would be made, he refused.

 

[keyan]

About Haiyan being banned for at least a year, i think this might be right if he made people quit cubing due to threats. But maybe a strong warning cud have sufficed as a first step. Like if he ever do something like this again he would be banned.

He chose not to apologize. He chose to cause further disruptions after being told it would lead to a ban.

Much more has gone on that what you see posted on the WCA site.

 

[Zubon]

Much more has gone on that what you see posted on the WCA site.

If this is the case, I think maybe the WCA should release all of the information. This whole issue is causing a lot of stress in the cubing community with people making up their minds about whose side they want to be on.

For the sake of cubing, the WCA should make public exactly all the reasons why he has been banned.

 

[jiggy]

Much more has gone on that what you see posted on the WCA site.

If this is the case, I think maybe the WCA should release all of the information. This whole issue is causing a lot of stress in the cubing community with people making up their minds about whose side they want to be on.

For the sake of cubing, the WCA should make public exactly all the reasons why he has been banned.

Whereas the WCA prefers transparency in its operations, the WCA respects the IAC's decision not to release the gathered evidence. The release of identities and information would likely increase the pressure by Mr. Zhuang against people who have cooperated with this process. The WCA board would like to thank the IAC and the delegates and competition organizers from China for the work that they have put into this process.

Witnesses must be able to give fair testimony, without fear of persecution from either side. It's unfortunate that we, as bystanders, cannot see more of the evidence in this trial, but I understand and respect the reasons this can't be so.

 

[nck]

About Haiyan being banned for at least a year, i think this might be right if he made people quit cubing due to threats. But maybe a strong warning cud have sufficed as a first step. Like if he ever do something like this again he would be banned.

He chose not to apologize. He chose to cause further disruptions after being told it would lead to a ban.

Much more has gone on that what you see posted on the WCA site.

It will be better if WCA posts up more information.
At speedsolving.com, many people's only source of information is from what you and some other dude from mf8 posts. Although Haiyan tries to post his side of the story, it's not of much use when people start calling him a liar. I do believe that most of the information we are getting here is biased.

Personally I'm really sick of seeing some people, not mentioning names, repeatedly posts highly subjective and derogatory comments about Haiyan. it seriously gave me the impression that they have had personal affairs with Haiyan, and this is just an opportunity to get rid of him.

This matter could well be peacefully resolved instead of escalating to what we have now. Although it's true that Haiyan had definitely done the wrong things, I think it's fair to say what we are seeing now is exaggerated version of what really happened. I trust you and respect you for what you did, however, since you're, too, directly involved in this matter, what you have said might well be biased because of your own emotions. (I'm not saying you would do this deliberate).

From what I've seen , Haiyan is hell of a hot tempered guy. It was a heated moment and blahblah and he said things he should not have said. However, it is that necessary to take his 'threats of physical violence' literally? Would you really think that he will kill you because you didn't let him cube?

Furthermore, although it's pretty evident that he is pissed about not being the delegate, I don't think it's relevant because we should be judging on what he has done and not what he intended to do.

Because there is a degree of truth in both sides of the story, we shouldn't really flood speedsolving.com with just negative information. It's pretty much pointless if everyone here hates Haiyan because of what some people (not you) said, and people at mf8 supports him for their own reasons.

Finally, people are banned from forums for a reason. At this point we should try to resolve this problem peacefully rather than try to escalate it even further.

Putting up more information will let people see a larger picture of this matter, however, I do understand the problems with it. I can't influence what the WCA decides to do, but I hope it will turn out good.

 

[Tim Reynolds]

Much more has gone on that what you see posted on the WCA site.

If this is the case, I think maybe the WCA should release all of the information. This whole issue is causing a lot of stress in the cubing community with people making up their minds about whose side they want to be on.

For the sake of cubing, the WCA should make public exactly all the reasons why he has been banned.

It doesn't matter what side you choose to be on. The public opinion in this situation should have no effect on what actions are taken against Haiyan. If there's threats being made, and the WCA needs to protect those individuals who gave evidence, then that absolutely trumps the need of individual cubers who are uninvolved to decide whether they like the WCA or the CCA better. Remember that evidence was collected under the promise of confidentiality. Most of the people who spoke against Haiyan only did so because they knew their identity would be protected.

 

[prostx23]

I think the questions are...

What type of threats were being made? Was is as simple as "You're gonna have that second round of BLD of I'm gonna f**k you up!", or are we talking death threats? And then the second question is...how capable was he to carry these threats out? To me, based only on what I've read here, this sounds like Haiyan was behaving like a schoolyard bully. In some cases the bark is much worse than the bite (he doesn't look very intimidating). Or was it? Eiither way, even if all his threats were empty, you still can't have some one bullying, throwing their weight around or just being a general disruption during these contests. So what do you do?

Mike

 

[tke444]

I think the questions are...

What type of threats were being made? Was is as simple as "You're gonna have that second round of BLD of I'm gonna f**k you up!", or are we talking death threats? And then the second question is...how capable was he to carry these threats out? To me, based only on what I've read here, this sounds like Haiyan was behaving like a schoolyard bully. In some cases the bark is much worse than the bite (he doesn't look very intimidating). Or was it? Eiither way, even if all his threats were empty, you still can't have some one bullying, throwing their weight around or just being a general disruption during these contests. So what do you do?

Mike

What would i do? "What now? Lemme tell you what now. I'm gonna call up a couple a hard, pipe-hittin' ******* and go to work on the holmes here with a pair a pliars and a blowtorch. You hear me talkin' Hillbilly Boy? I ain't through with you by a da*** sight. I'm gonna get medieval on your a**." Yeah its a stupid quote, I thought maybe we could use a little laughter to bring our stress levels down.

 

[qqwref]

It doesn't matter what side you choose to be on. The public opinion in this situation should have no effect on what actions are taken against Haiyan. If there's threats being made, and the WCA needs to protect those individuals who gave evidence, then that absolutely trumps the need of individual cubers who are uninvolved to decide whether they like the WCA or the CCA better. Remember that evidence was collected under the promise of confidentiality. Most of the people who spoke against Haiyan only did so because they knew their identity would be protected.

1) It would be possible to release most of the evidence in a form which gives more information without releasing names. I'm sure that some of the evidence (such as records of email or verbal exchanges) would clearly point to a specific person, but it would be no problem to conceal the source of a 3rd party interpretation (NOT one of the top people on each side) of what happened at a competition. I don't expect the WCA to do all this work (they're not a journalistic agency), I'm just saying that it wouldn't be impossible to produce some of the evidence without violating identity protections.

2) Isn't it possible that, if enough of the public opinion is against the WCA's decision, people may trust the WCA's top-level organization less?


Anyway, I wonder: does this decision do anything about Haiyan *himself*? If what everyone is saying against Haiyan is true, wouldn't a ban do nothing but prevent him from being at WCA competitions? A ban does not stop him from moderating mf8, harassing competition organizers or other cubers, influencing cube factories, etc. So I don't see how this fixes the situation; maybe it just makes it worse. I don't know.

 

[Tyson]

You don't just start something new because you aren't happy with what's out there. I think the cubers in our community need to ask the question, "Why was the CCA started?" If the WCA is doing such a bad job, and we have things in place that are really that unfair that the CCA needs to be started, then yes, we should have an immediate discussion to try to resolve this. But if the CCA was started because one person wasn't happy with the way some things were run, isn't that a reason to be suspicious of the motivations of the CCA?

um what?
Dont you live in America?
and not only America but a capitalistic society..

That is kind of the idea behind capitalism and America...

Anyway, the CCA will exist regardless of our suspicion or not. How about we wait to cast any stones and see what happens? Its never a good idea to shoot at a crowd of people you think MIGHT be the enemy, especially if they have not shot at you first.

Indeed...the The World Poker Tour flourished and spawned a revolution in televised poker where no one else would dare to tread while the World Series of Poker struggled to find an audience. Granted, the WSOP has since co-opted the best of the WPT in recent years and now leads in the ratings on ESPN, but the basic idea was sound: Someone thought they could do it better and they were free to do so. F*** yeah! Creative destruction!

Disclaimer: I have nothing but respect for the WCA and I trust them 99%. But I also love my Haiyan Memory cube, so even if Haiyan is a self-important tyrant like Donald Trump he can't possibly be 100% evil...so let the cards fall where they may. History will sort it out, no?

I definitely dont mean to sound against WCA, I just dont think the comment was very well thought out.

Okay, sorry... I feel I need to clarify that one sentence that everyone is picking up on right now. Yes, you do start something when you're not happy of what's in existence. Sorry, what I meant to say was that, you can start whatever you want. But if you start something because you're throwing a hissy-fit about it, it raises suspicion that you're only doing things for personal gain. The difference here is that I feel there really is no issue between Haiyan and the WCA. Any shortcomings that the WCA had in China were largely created by himself. The lack of delegates in China is a result of people not wanting to be delegates because they simply don't want to deal with threats and intimidation from Haiyan.

In other words, he really has no good reason to do something else other than for reasons he's manufactured himself. If there were serious problems with the WCA, then I would find good reason for him to form his own group. But until then, I'm just sitting here puzzled as to why he's formed the CCA. What exactly is wrong with the WCA in China that he has to go around and tell WCA organizers not to organize competitions, call them up repeatedly at work, at home during the night, and just being a nuisance?

Is this about forming a group to promote cubing in China? I thought that's what the WCA delegates were trying to do. Or is this a group about control and power?

Go ahead... if Haiyan would come out here and start listing reasons that the WCA is failing the Chinese cubing community, I would be most gracious.

It's okay, Haiyan has a NUMBER ONE FAN YAY!

 

[Bryan]

Anyway, I wonder: does this decision do anything about Haiyan *himself*? If what everyone is saying against Haiyan is true, wouldn't a ban do nothing but prevent him from being at WCA competitions? A ban does not stop him from moderating mf8, harassing competition organizers or other cubers, influencing cube factories, etc. So I don't see how this fixes the situation; maybe it just makes it worse. I don't know.

The WCA has no control over mf8, cube factories, etc.

 

[Erik]

This thread should be closed, the last posts don't contribute anything to the topic. Besides this, it's really pointless to discuss this with the whole forum. More than enough people who don't have anything to do with this subject have involved themselves IMHO.

 

[cmhardw]

Please move the discussion of a potential BLD rule change (best of 3 vs. best of 5) to another thread, and do not post replies following that topic in this thread any longer.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Sakarie]

If this is the case, I think maybe the WCA should release all of the information. This whole issue is causing a lot of stress in the cubing community with people making up their minds about whose side they want to be on.

For the sake of cubing, the WCA should make public exactly all the reasons why he has been banned.

You don't know all the information, so how can you say that you know best how to handle it?

What would i do? "What now? Lemme tell you what now. I'm gonna call up a couple a hard, pipe-hittin' ******* and go to work on the holmes here with a pair a pliars and a blowtorch. You hear me talkin' Hillbilly Boy? I ain't through with you by a da*** sight. I'm gonna get medieval on your a**." Yeah its a stupid quote, I thought maybe we could use a little laughter to bring our stress levels down.

Yeah, that was.. "hilarius".

The most important thing now is to make sure that we do are best to

1) NOT let anyone ban WCA from China.
2) NOT let Haiyan or the people supporting him spread false rumors about the evil WCA.
3) Reach out a big hand for a dialog with the chinese cubers, to make CCA a positive thing, and not a concurrent to WCA.

Is there any way we could let the governments sports-people in China know that a lot of people from a lot of countries (incl. China) supports WCA to stay in China? Would a name list do any good?

I'm so NOT into Chinese politics.

 

[prostx23]

I'm still left wondering, what type of threats were these? I'm gonna beat you up? I'm gonna Murder you? I understand that some privacy needs to be kept to protect the innocent, but the info on "threats" made by Haiyan is very vague? I made the analogy of the schoolyard bully in a previous post for this reason. Without a bit more specificity, is this an overreaction, or over sensitivity to someone who s simply a bully? If Haiyan simply threatened to slap someone around but never followed through, and had no intention to. Isn't even 1 year a bit harsh of a punishment? Perhaps not since I don't know anything other than what has been stated here.

And, if this all comes down to Haiyan simply wanting an extra round of BLD, I assume this was known by the WCA for some time before things got out of hand, was there a reason why this could not possibly have been done or planned for ahead of time. If for no other reason than to give the squeaky wheel the oil. I know, if you start to appease one then others might follow. I just can't fathom how something like this can get so out of control over one guy wanting an extra round of competition. One man has been suspended for three years and now there is a possibility of an entire country seperating it's self from official competition. What's done is done, hopefully some thought is going into how to prevent something like this from ever happening again.

Mike

 

[Bryan]

I'm still left wondering, what type of threats were these? I'm gonna beat you up? I'm gonna Murder you? I understand that some privacy needs to be kept to protect the innocent, but the info on "threats" made by Haiyan is very vague?

There are other possible threats too, like, "I'm going to make your life a living hell", or "I will ensure you'll never hold a competition again", etc. Not every threat is physical violence or a specific task defined.

And, if this all comes down to Haiyan simply wanting an extra round of BLD, I assume this was known by the WCA for some time before things got out of hand, was there a reason why this could not possibly have been done or planned for ahead of time. If for no other reason than to give the squeaky wheel the oil.

You're suggesting the WCA require all Chinese competitions to hold a mandatory 2 rounds of BLD? I'm just restating it so you know how it sounds.

 

[amostay2004]

I'm still left wondering, what type of threats were these? I'm gonna beat you up? I'm gonna Murder you? I understand that some privacy needs to be kept to protect the innocent, but the info on "threats" made by Haiyan is very vague?

There are other possible threats too, like, "I'm going to make your life a living hell", or "I will ensure you'll never hold a competition again", etc. Not every threat is physical violence or a specific task defined.

I'm sure what he meant was, how serious and possible were these threats? Did he say it in a totally serious manner and did he have the possibility to exercise these threats? Someone stated earlier that he is probably connected to people with authority so it is probably possible, and is thus a serious offense if he meant what he said.

Then again, I can't help but think how ridiculous this sounds. If he has the power and resources to threaten people so seriously you'd think he has the resources to simply go to more comps for more rounds of BLD, or organise his own comp and invite a WCA delegate so he can have 3 rounds of BLD or whatever.

 

[Dene]

I'm still left wondering, what type of threats were these? I'm gonna beat you up? I'm gonna Murder you? I understand that some privacy needs to be kept to protect the innocent, but the info on "threats" made by Haiyan is very vague? I made the analogy of the schoolyard bully in a previous post for this reason. Without a bit more specificity, is this an overreaction, or over sensitivity to someone who s simply a bully? If Haiyan simply threatened to slap someone around but never followed through, and had no intention to. Isn't even 1 year a bit harsh of a punishment? Perhaps not since I don't know anything other than what has been stated here.

And, if this all comes down to Haiyan simply wanting an extra round of BLD, I assume this was known by the WCA for some time before things got out of hand, was there a reason why this could not possibly have been done or planned for ahead of time. If for no other reason than to give the squeaky wheel the oil. I know, if you start to appease one then others might follow. I just can't fathom how something like this can get so out of control over one guy wanting an extra round of competition. One man has been suspended for three years and now there is a possibility of an entire country seperating it's self from official competition. What's done is done, hopefully some thought is going into how to prevent something like this from ever happening again.

Mike

You, like many other people around at the moment, have completely failed to even bother to read up about this entire issue. There has been a plethora of information posted already revealing the history of this issue.

I urge everyone to stop making posts like "this is a bit harsh", or "he only made a small threat? This doesn't deserve a 1 year ban", because this is not a small issue, it has been recurrent for what appears to around 2 years.

It's getting really annoying.

 

[Kirjava]

You, like many other people around at the moment, have completely failed to even bother to read up about this entire issue. There has been a plethora of information posted already revealing the history of this issue.

I urge everyone to stop making posts like "this is a bit harsh", or "he only made a small threat? This doesn't deserve a 1 year ban", because this is not a small issue, it has been recurrent for what appears to around 2 years.

It's getting really annoying.

Many of the people who think this is harsh know the details of what happened.

 

[prostx23]

I'm still left wondering, what type of threats were these? I'm gonna beat you up? I'm gonna Murder you? I understand that some privacy needs to be kept to protect the innocent, but the info on "threats" made by Haiyan is very vague? I made the analogy of the schoolyard bully in a previous post for this reason. Without a bit more specificity, is this an overreaction, or over sensitivity to someone who s simply a bully? If Haiyan simply threatened to slap someone around but never followed through, and had no intention to. Isn't even 1 year a bit harsh of a punishment? Perhaps not since I don't know anything other than what has been stated here.

Mike

You, like many other people around at the moment, have completely failed to even bother to read up about this entire issue. There has been a plethora of information posted already revealing the history of this issue.

I urge everyone to stop making posts like "this is a bit harsh", or "he only made a small threat? This doesn't deserve a 1 year ban", because this is not a small issue, it has been recurrent for what appears to around 2 years.

It's getting really annoying.

Please read more carefully. I've read this thread and every other thread related to this incident on this site from beginning to end, and most of the threads and links provided within these threads, so you'd be incorrect in stating I'm not well read on the subject. I've based my assertion (more of a question than an assertion really) based on that very limited information. If you have more specifics than what has been previously discussed I'd be happy to listen. I absolutely do not know all the facts (as most of the specifics are only known to those involved), merely that what has been written thus far portrays Haiyan as a bully, not necessarily a psychopath.

Mike