[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[kinch2002]

Congratz, first of all.
I note, this scramble extremely easy for corners-first or Roux solvers.
In my opinion, the judges should eliminate the scramble, if at first sight too easy.

I'm afraid I totally disagree. Arbitrary filtering is even worse than computer-defined filtering. Luck happens, and there's no point trying to prevent it from happening because it will always exist.

 

[TeddyKGB]

Got a new PB 22 moves, it was pretty lucky but I'll take it.

Scramble: D2 R' U2 F2 R2 U2 B2 R' U2 F U R' U' R F U2 F R'

(on inverse scramble)

2x2x2: B2 * L2 U F
2x2x3: D2 R2 D R D'
F2L -1: D B' D' B
Leave 3 corners: R2 U R' U' R2

Insert at *: D' R D L2 D' R' D L2 (2 moves cancel)

Solution: R2 U R U' R2 B' D B R' D' R2 D2 F' U' D' R D L2 D' R' D B2 ( 22-moves)

 

[kinch2002]

Scrambles from Oxford Open 2014 this weekend if anyone wants to try them:
1. B2 U2 R2 D2 F R2 F' R2 D2 L2 B R U2 F' L2 U B2 L R
2. R2 B2 U' F2 D' L2 U' L2 F2 U2 R2 B L' B2 U F2 L R' D' F R
3. B2 F2 D2 L2 D B2 U R2 B2 U L2 B' L D' L2 D R' U R' F'

I had 29, 29, 24 = 27.33
Thanks to that single they
are both NRs and 7th/3rd in the world for single/average

I will post at least the 24 solution tomorrow

 

[Mollerz]

This weekend I got a 32 move solution on the 3rd scramble at Oxford Open 2014. I think it's quite a cool solution so I'll go ahead and post it even though it's not totally amazing, but I'm pretty proud of it!

Scramble: B2 F2 D2 L2 D B2 U R2 B2 U L2 B' L D' L2 D R' U R' F'

2x2x2: R2 B' D R2 D
NISS ->
2x2x3: U' F2 B' R B
EO: R D' F2 D
Blocks+Edges: F' R' F R F2 R F2

This leaves a 5 corner cycle.
Solution with insertions:

R2 B' D R2 D
F2 F' F2 R' F' *[SUP]+[/SUP] R F
D F2 D' R'
B' R' B F2 U

*: F' U' B U F U' B' U - Cancels 1 move
+: U' R D2 R' U R D2 R' - Cancels 4 moves

Final solution: R2 B' D R2 D F2 F' F2 R' F2 U' B U F U' B' R D2 R' U R D2 F D F2 D' R' B' R' B F2 U

Turns out the optimal insertion was 7 moves. I arbitrarily labelled the corner cycle 1-5. I searched the 3-cycles of 123, 234 and half of 345 before I ran out of time. The optimal started with a 512 cycle. The 345 cycle that paired with this was right at the end of the solution so I just missed it.

 

[Meneghetti]

My 33 move solution from my SAR average (33,38,36 = 35.67)

Scramble: U2 B2 U B2 U2 B2 D2 L' B' D2 F2 D2 B2 L2 R B' D' F' U
Solution: U2 L2 U2 F' D R2 D' L D R2 D' F U B U2 B2 U B2 U' B L' D' B' D L B L U R' F2 U' B D'

(on inverse)
D B' U F2 R // 2x2x2

(switch to normal)
Premoves: L U R' F2 U' B D' // 2x2x2 and pseudo correction
U2 L2 U2 F' L * F // pseudo 2x2x3
U B U2 // pseudo F2L-1
B2 U B2 U' // two pairs
B L' D' B' D L B // AB3C

* insertion: L' D R2 D' L D R2 D' // 2 cancellations

Results: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=505&cat=15&rnd=1

Spoiler

It was a pretty good scramble for fluent Triangular-Francisco solvers, so I guess the judges should have eliminated the scramble at first sight, right?

 

[Cubo largo]

A J perm is a block 3-cycle+AUF

 

[kinch2002]

My 24 move NR from Oxford Open 2014 3rd scramble

Scramble: B2 F2 D2 L2 D B2 U R2 B2 U L2 B' L D' L2 D R' U R' F'

2x2x3: D R2 D2 L U2 D L' U (8)
Preserve pair and make Block: R2 D B D' (12)
F2L and leave 3 corners: B U' B' U R U R' U' B' R2 (22)

Skeleton: D R2 D2 L U2 * D L' U R2 D B D' B U' B' U R U R' U' B' R2
Insert L' U' L D L' U L D' at * to cancel 5 moves, giving the following 25 move solution:
D R2 D2 L U2 L' U' L D L' U2 R2 D B D' B U' B' U R U R' U' B' R2

Then, I noticed that the last part of the solution is actually a block comm (with a couple of setup moves and some cancellation), so I used the skeleton
D R2 D2 L U2 L' U' L D L' U2 R2 D B D' B' * R2, which leaves a block comm
Insert F R' D' R' D R F' R at * to cancel 1 move and gives the 24 move solution

Solution: D R2 D2 L U2 L' U' L D L' U2 R2 D B D' B' F R' D' R' D R F' R2 (24)

As a side note, I currently have an official 28.1 avg12

 

[TeddyKGB]

Turns out the optimal insertion was 7 moves. I arbitrarily labelled the corner cycle 1-5. I searched the 3-cycles of 123, 234 and half of 345 before I ran out of time. The optimal started with a 512 cycle. The 345 cycle that paired with this was right at the end of the solution so I just missed it.

Are you saying you go through your skeleton multiple times first looking for 123 then a second time looking for 234 etc. Is this just to make it easier to see good insertions? Do other people do it this way as well? When I go through a skeleton I look for all of them at the same time, I'll admit it does get a little confusing at times and I have occasionally miss some good cancelations but your way seems rather time consuming, assuming I'm understanding it right.

 

[cubeaddicted]

Would [R' F R,U] be expanded as (R' F R U R' F' R U') or (R' F R U R F' R' U')?

 

[Jakube]

Would [R' F R,U] be expanded as (R' F R U R' F' R U') or (R' F R U R F' R' U')?

The first one is correct.

 

[cubeaddicted]

But a commutator is in the form of A B A' B', so shouldn't [R' F R,U] be written as (R' F R) U (R' F R)' U' = R' F R U R F' R U'?

 

[Brest]

Would [R' F R,U] be expanded as (R' F R U R' F' R U') or (R' F R U R F' R' U')?

But a commutator is in the form of A B A' B', so shouldn't [R' F R,U] be written as (R' F R) U (R' F R)' U' = R' F R U R F' R U'?

When inverting a sequence of moves, you invert the order of moves as well as the direction.

[R' F R,U]
=
A is (R' F R)
B is (U)
=
A B A' B'
=
(R' F R) (U) (R' F R)' (U)'
=
(R' F R) U (R' F' R) U'

 

[tseitsei]

But a commutator is in the form of A B A' B', so shouldn't [R' F R,U] be written as (R' F R) U (R' F R)' U' = R' F R U R F' R U'?

No.

Because in this case A=R' F R
and you make A' by taking the inverse of A, so read the moves from back to front and add ' to every move there isn't one and remove ' from the moves that already have '

so that would make A' = R' (last R move and added ') F' (then F move and added ') and R (last R' move and removed ') = R' F' R

P.S. that "commutator" you gave as an example doesn't seem to do anything that makes sense to me even when executed correctly tough

Edit: Ninja'd

Edit2: Brest: I think there might be a mistake in your post

[R' F R,U]
=
A is (R' F R)
B is (U)
=
A B A' B'
=
(R' F R) (U) (R' F R)' (U)'
=
(R' F R) U (R F' R') U'

Should be R' F' R

 

[Sebastien]

I had 29, 29, 24 = 27.33
Thanks to that single they
are both NRs and 7th/3rd in the world for single/average

I will post at least the 24 solution tomorrow

My 24 move NR from Oxford Open 2014 3rd scramble

Scramble: B2 F2 D2 L2 D B2 U R2 B2 U L2 B' L D' L2 D R' U R' F'

2x2x3: D R2 D2 L U2 D L' U (8)
Preserve pair and make Block: R2 D B D' (12)
F2L and leave 3 corners: B U' B' U R U R' U' B' R2 (22)

Skeleton: D R2 D2 L U2 * D L' U R2 D B D' B U' B' U R U R' U' B' R2
Insert L' U' L D L' U L D' at * to cancel 5 moves, giving the following 25 move solution:
D R2 D2 L U2 L' U' L D L' U2 R2 D B D' B U' B' U R U R' U' B' R2

Then, I noticed that the last part of the solution is actually a block comm (with a couple of setup moves and some cancellation), so I used the skeleton
D R2 D2 L U2 L' U' L D L' U2 R2 D B D' B' * R2, which leaves a block comm
Insert F R' D' R' D R F' R at * to cancel 1 move and gives the 24 move solution

Solution: D R2 D2 L U2 L' U' L D L' U2 R2 D B D' B' F R' D' R' D R F' R2 (24)

As a side note, I currently have an official 28.1 avg12

Congratz for all of this! Really cool solution as well.

 

[cubeaddicted]

Thanks!
PS - Those were just random moves I came up that instant

 

[ottozing]

Was looking through old messages between me and Brest and eventually found the 31 I got at Shepparton.

Scramble: R2 D' U' B2 R2 D L2 D2 B' L2 B2 R' U B U2 L D B

B2 U' D2 L2 F U' (2x2x2) 6/31
B' R D B2 (2x2x3 or XXcross) 10/31
D2 R D R' (F2L minus last slot) 14/31
D F' R F R' D2 R' D R (EOLS) 23/31
F' D B D' F D B' D2 (LL) 31/31

I should really learn how to actually FMC instead of doing yolo blocks >_>

 

[Brest]

Was looking through old messages between me and Brest and eventually found the 31 I got at Shepparton.

This reminded me to foinally post.

My skeleton was:

(L' R2) // premoves
R2 D' U' B2 R2 D L2 D2 B' L2 B2 R' U B U2 L D B

R' U2 R' F R // 2x2x1 +pairs
L U B' D // pseudo 2x2x2 (premove R2)
L D F2 D' // pseudo F2L-1 (premove L')
B' U2 B2 L' B' L // L4C
(L' R2) // premoves

then fail insertions... I should practice them (IF gives 6 moves cancel for a 29)

-*-

Faz 30 OcR

R2 D' U' B2 R2 D L2 D2 B' L2 B2 R' U B U2 L D B

U2 F' R2 D R D' // 2x2x2
U' B2 R B' // 2x2x3
U2 R U' R' U' R // F2L-1
U R U R' U' F' U F // F2L
F U R U' R' F' U2 // finish

-*-
and some practice leading up to Caltech:

Spoiler

<Nibblr> 3x3 Scramble #25274: R D' R B D R B R' U F2 L' U' B U L2 F' B2 U2 F2 R' F2 R' B' F2 U2
<Brest> ,i R D' R B D R B R' U F2 L' U' B U L2 F' B2 U2 F2 R' F2 R' B' F2 U2
<Nibblr> inverse: U2 F2 B R F2 R F2 U2 B2 F L2 U' B' U L F2 U' R B' R' D' B' R' D R'
<Brest> B D B' L' D'
<Brest> L2 U2 L
<Brest> R B L B' R'
<Brest> L' U' L U B2
<Brest> D' L2 D L D' L D L2
<Brest> D2
<Brest> 27

-*-
<Nibblr> 3x3 Scramble #25277: L R2 D2 R' B2 F U F D' F2 U' B F' L2 U R2 F2 D' F' L B' U2 D' B' U'
<Brest> 23 to L3C
<Brest> and I forgot my stickers... -.-
<Brest> IF gives 28
<Brest> not bad for 8 mins

U' F' B' D
L2 U2 F2 U' F'
L B L B'
L F L2 F' L2 D2 B D B' D
// 23

-*-
<Nibblr> 3x3 Scramble #25278: B F D' U2 B2 L R' B U' B2 F2 U F2 L2 D L B2 U' R' D' R2 L2 D2 R' U
<Brest> 27 to L3C (4 cancel 31)
<Brest> then 26 to L3C (3 cancel 31 lol)
<Brest> then 22 to L3C (4 cancel 26 yay)
<Brest> hey 27 mins
<Brest> 3 solutions
<Brest> ntbd
<Brest> (except finding insertions)
<Brest> ((which is the long part for me))

L' F L D B U2
F' L F L' F2 L2 F'
L' D L B' L B L'
F D2 F' D' F D' F'
// 27

L' F L D B U2
F' L F L' F2 L2 F'
B D' R D' R' D2 B2 L B L' B D B'
// 26

L' D F L B U2
L' F2 L2 F D2 F L'
D L U R' B R U' L'
D2
// 22

-*-
<Nibblr> 3x3 Scramble #25280: L D' R' U' D B U' F' D2 U' F' R' D L' F2 U2 F2 B' R F' B D2 U2 L' F2

(R2 U') // premoves

F L2 U L' F D' // 2x2x2
R2 F U' // F2L-1 (AreYouAWizard.jpg)
x // to make it easier to see
F' U2 F // EO
U' R U R' // square and pairs
U2 R U' R' U // finish lel
23 awhohohoyeah.jpg

 

[Alchemistake]

I see SAR everywhere i did my research but i didn't find any explanation for it.
What does SAR solution or SAR average?

 

[TDM]

I see SAR everywhere i did my research but i didn't find any explanation for it.
What does SAR solution or SAR average?

South American Record.

 

[coldsun0630]

I just got a 32 moves solution.

Spoiler

Scramble: D' B2 R F2 R' D' F U' R2 U2 L2 U2 F2 D F U' F2 U2 R2 B' D' R2 U2 B U2
Solution: B2 U' R B' R' F R B R' U' F' U B' R B2 L' R' U' B2 U' B' D2 L D' L R U' R D R' U R (32)


(On Inverse Scramble)

B2 // Premove (1/1)
D' R2 L' D L' D2 // 2x2x2 Block (6/7)
B U B2 U R L B2 R' B // Tripod (9/16)
U' F U F' U // L4C (5/21)

Skeleton: B2 U' [1] F U' F' U B' R B2 L' R' U' B2 U' B' D2 L D' L R2 D [2]

- Insertion
[1]: R B' R' F R B R' F'
[2]: D' R' U' R D R' U R

I have no idea to use Tripod more efficiently..