[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[FinnGamer]

20 moves is Gods number for LL. FMC with full LL isn't easy, try doing things during your F2L to influence your LL.

Is there really a LL that takes 20 moves optimally?

 

[Bindedsa]

Is there really a LL that takes 20 moves optimally?

Kirjava said that a while ago somewhere, I assumed he was right.

 

[Jakube]

Is there really a LL that takes 20 moves optimally?

According to this list of all possible last layer case, you can solve every last layer in max. 16 moves. 17 with AUF. Maybe even less.

 

[Sebastien]

My 21 move ER solution:

Scramble: R2 D' B' U D2 F2 R2 L2 F' R L' B2 D2 R D2 L D2

Solution (written in a no-switch way):

Premove: L2
2x2x2: B' U' D' F2
2x2x3: L' B' L' B2
F2L-1+Domino-Reduction: L2 B' U B
Finish: F2 U F2 U F2 U2 F2 U'

Solution: B' U' D' F2 L' B' L' B2 L2 B' U B F2 U F2 U F2 U2 F2 U' L2 (21 moves)

The solution is a bit too lucky for my taste, I hope to get a less lucky solution if I ever beat this in competition.

The two 27 move solutions completing the new average WR had L3C skeletons in 21 and 20 moves. Too bad about the rather bad cancelations.

 

[Bhargav777]

My 21 move ER solution:

Scramble: R2 D' B' U D2 F2 R2 L2 F' R L' B2 D2 R D2 L D2

Solution (written in a no-switch way):

Premove: L2
2x2x2: B' U' D' F2
2x2x3: L' B' L' B2
F2L-1+Domino-Reduction: L2 B' U B
Finish: F2 U F2 U F2 U2 F2 U'

Solution: B' U' D' F2 L' B' L' B2 L2 B' U B F2 U F2 U F2 U2 F2 U' L2 (21 moves)

The solution is a bit too lucky for my taste, I hope to get a less lucky solution if I ever beat this in competition.

The two 27 move solutions completing the new average WR had L3C skeletons in 21 and 20 moves. Too bad about the rather bad cancelations.

Awesome! How do you usually go about after the 2x2x3? Pseudo blocks and comms or anything else based on scramble?

 

[cuBerBruce]

According to this list of all possible last layer case, you can solve every last layer in max. 16 moves. 17 with AUF. Maybe even less.

Definitely less. The cases that take 16 moves can all be done in 16 moves for all 4 AUF cases as I indicated here. So God's number for the last layer is 16 whether you require alignment with the first two layers or not.

 

[Sebastien]

Awesome! How do you usually go about after the 2x2x3? Pseudo blocks and comms or anything else based on scramble?

You seem to assume that I always start with a 2x2x3 block, which is not always true. I basically just try everything which looks promising based on the scramble.

 

[Bhargav777]

You seem to assume that I always start with a 2x2x3 block, which is not always true. I basically just try everything which looks promising based on the scramble.

Guess I put it the wrong way. I always get ~9 moves 2x2x3 block and struggle after that. How would you suggest me to go about?

 

[Sebastien]

I have no general advise except deliberate practise, sorry.

Or maybe, even though that's quite obvious: Solve the edges and as many corners meanwhile as reasonable.

 

[Bhargav777]

I have no general advise except deliberate practise, sorry.

Or maybe, even though that's quite obvious: Solve the edges and as many corners meanwhile as reasonable.

Oops. That's alright. Thanks a lot anyway!

 

[mehdi-roshan]

my solves from CubeComp I Iran 2014


Scramble 1 :
U' L' D2 L2 B' R F2 L2 U' B D' B2 D' F2 U' R2 U R2 F2 B2

Solution : U' D' F2 L U' F D U2 L2 D' U R' F R F' U' F U' F2 U2 L D' L' U2 L D L' U2 F U2 L2 U' L U2 (34 HTM)

Spoiler

2x2x2 : U' D' F2 L U' F
2X2X3 : D U2 L2 D'
All but 3 corners : U R' F R F' U' F U' F2 U2 # F U2 L2 U' L U2

Insert at # = L D' L' U2 L D L' U2

Scramble 2 :
F2 L2 D' L2 F2 D' R2 B' L2 B2 U R' F2 D2 F' U2 F2 R2

Solution : U B2 U2 B L2 U' R' U' R U2 R2 U' L' U R2 U' L R U R' U' F' U' F2 U' F' U' F' U' F U' (31 HTM)

Spoiler

2x2x2 Block : U B2 U2 B L2

invers

Premove : L2 B' U2 B2 U'
1x2x2 : U F' U F U F U
2X2X3 : F2 U F
All but 3 corners: U R U' R' # U' R' U R U
Correction: L2 B' U2 B2 U'

Inser at # = L' U R2 U' L U R2 U'

Final solution : U B2 U2 B L2 U' R' U' R U2 R2 U' L' U R2 U' L R U R' U' F' U' F2 U' F' U' F' U' F U' (31 HTM)

Scramble 3 :
U2 F L2 B D2 F2 U2 B2 D L' D B2 R2 U L F' L2 D2 R2

Solution : D' R' D F U2 B D' B U F2 B U2 B U L' U' L' U L' U L U F U' F' U2 L' U2 R U' L U R' (33 HTM)

Spoiler

2x2x2 : D' R' D F U2 B D' B U F2
2x2x3 : B U2 B
F2L minus 1 slot : U L' U' L'
All but 3 corners : U L' U L U F U' F' U2 L' U L U #

Insert at # = U L' U R U ' L U R '


Final solution : D' R' D F U2 B D' B U F2 B U2 B U L' U' L' U L' U L U F U' F' U2 L' U2 R U' L U R' (33 HTM)

 

[Meneghetti]

My 29 move SAR solution:

Scramble: F D2 B2 D2 B' L2 R2 B' L' R' D2 U' B' D2 R2 B' R2
Solution: F' U B U2 B' R U R2 L' B' L B2 U2 B' U' B' U R B' D B D2 R D R2 L2 F L' D'

(on inverse)
Premove: F // corrects pseudoness
D L F' L2 // pseudo 2x2x2

(switch to normal)
Premoves: L2 F L' D' // pre-2x2x2
F' // 2x2x2
U B U2 B' R U R2 // 2x2x3
L' B' L // EO
B2 U2 // F2L-1
B' U' B' U // square
R B' D B D2 R D R2 // tripod

Results: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=484&cat=15&rnd=1

 

[coldsun0630]

I've just found a good F2L-1, but I have no idea to end. How can I finish it? Please help me...

Spoiler

Scramble: R2 U B D B R' U' F D2 L B R D B2 D' R B' D R' U2


(Normal)
Pseudo 222: U' L2 U R' U

(Inverse)
Premove: U' R U' L2 U
223: U' D2 B2 L' B'
Psuedo F2L-1: L D' B' L2 B

(Normal)
Premove: B' L2 B D L' / B L B2 D2 U
More Blocks: U' L2 U R' U / D L D2

 

[Evan Liu]

My winning 33-move solution from French Championship 2014

Scramble: F R2 B L2 R2 U2 F' D2 B D' L U F' D' U2 R' U2 R2 D' L'

Spoiler

Solution: R' D' B' F2 U' F U D B R' B2 U L U' R2 U L' U' R2 D2 B R' D R F' D' F' D F' D F' D' F (33)

2x2x2: R' D' B' F2 U' F U (7/7)
2x2x3: D B R' B2 * D2 B (6/13)
F2L-1: R' D R F' D' F' D (7/20)
L3C: F' D F' D' F (5/25)
Insert at *: U L U' R2 U L' U' R2 (0 moves cancel; 8/33)
IF confirms no cancellations were possible.

An alternate 34-move solution with a 17-move F2L:

Spoiler

Solution: D' U B' L F' L' D' F' D2 R D R2 F' R' F D2 R F R' F D' F2 D' L D2 F' D' F' D F D' L' F2 R' (34)

Premove: R' (1/1)
2x2x2: D' U B' L F' L' (6/7)
2x2x3: D' F' D2 R2 (4/11)
F2L: R' D R2 F' R' F D (6/17)
OLL: D R F R' F D' F' D F' D' (6/23)
PLL: D F D' F' D' L D2 F' D' F' D F D' L' F2 (11/34)

Tips/improvements?

 

[cubeaddicted]

Can you do an edge and a corner swap simultaneously (like T-perm) using commutators?

 

[EMI]

Can you do an edge and a corner swap simultaneously (like T-perm) using commutators?

That has parity, but commutators normally are 3-cycles. What you can do though is a commutator + a single turn, like a J-perm.

 

[cubeaddicted]

I didn't get it. Could please explain?

 

[yoinneroid]

I didn't get it. Could please explain?

T perm has a parity, so it needs to be fixed with a single turn such as U
however there is no easy fix which could turn the T perm into an obvious 3-cycle
on the other hand, you can try set it up into a J perm (which is also a 2C2E case)
you can fix J perm with U' and get a simple 3-cycle solvable with [B:[F Dw2 F', U']]

 

[Deleted member 19792]

Scramble: D2 L' B2 U2 L' U2 R' B2 D2 B2 D2 B D2 U' L2 D' B F2 D B' R'

Solution : B2 L' B2 L' R U' L U2 L' R B' R' B R B2 R D2 B R' L B L' B L B' L' B' r B R' B'
r' U R U' B2 R B' R B R B R B' R' B' R2 B2

Moves: 47

 

[Attila]

My 29 move SAR solution:

Scramble: F D2 B2 D2 B' L2 R2 B' L' R' D2 U' B' D2 R2 B' R2
Solution: F' U B U2 B' R U R2 L' B' L B2 U2 B' U' B' U R B' D B D2 R D R2 L2 F L' D'

(on inverse)
Premove: F // corrects pseudoness
D L F' L2 // pseudo 2x2x2

(switch to normal)
Premoves: L2 F L' D' // pre-2x2x2
F' // 2x2x2
U B U2 B' R U R2 // 2x2x3
L' B' L // EO
B2 U2 // F2L-1
B' U' B' U // square
R B' D B D2 R D R2 // tripod

Results: http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=484&cat=15&rnd=1

Congratz, first of all.
I note, this scramble extremely easy for corners-first or Roux solvers.
In my opinion, the judges should eliminate the scramble, if at first sight too easy.