[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[kinch2002]

Scramble: L' F L F2 R' F R2 D L' B2 U2 R U2 R U' L F D B U' R D2 L F' L'
Solution: U' F2 U' B2 U F2 U' B2 L2 F2 B2 L U' R U B U' F' U' L2 D F U F2 D2 U R B R' B U' (31)

F2L-1: U2 [1] L2 F2 B2 L U' R [2] F' U B U2 L2 D F U F2 D2
L4C: U R B R' B U'

[1]: U F2 U' B2 U F2 U' B2
[2]: U B U' F' U B' U' F

1hr solv

/

Used Snyder Method.
Is there any good L3C after the F2L-1?

You could have done U L' R B R' B' L B2 U' after F2L-1 to leave 3 corners. You could think of it as inserting L' B R' B' L B R B' and cancelling 5 moves.

 

[irontwig]

Insertions stink of IF; first insertion cancel one move, the second seven.

 

[coldsun0630]

You could have done U L' R B R' B' L B2 U' after F2L-1 to leave 3 corners. You could think of it as inserting L' B R' B' L B R B' and cancelling 5 moves.

Oh, that's awesome.. Thanks!

Insertions stink of IF; first insertion cancel one move, the second seven.

I believe that it could be cancelled even more than seven, if there is enough luck.
I want to show you a solution which cancels 9 moves with insertion, of course without IF.

Spoiler

[Not Mine]


Scramble: U2 R2 U L' F' D' F U R2 D' F2 D L2 D2 R D2 F L2 F2 R'
Solution: U2 B' L2 D' R U2 D' L' D F2 L F2 R' F2 L' F R U' F' L U L' B L B' (25)

(Normal)
2x2x2: U2 B' L2 D' R
2x2x3: U2 D' L' D F2

(Inverse)
F2L-1: B L' B' L U' L'
F2L: F U F'
AB3C: L F R' F R F2 L'

Skeleton: U2 B' L2 D' R U2 D' L' D F2 L F2 R' F' R F' [1] L' F U' F' L U L' B L B'
- Insert at [1]: F R' F' L' F R F' L

Time: 14min

 

[kinch2002]

Sure, it's possible to cancel 7. But what he's wondering is how you found such a good cancellation on the second insertion. Why did you pick a first insertion that only cancels one move?

 

[okayama]

Most Sub-X solves in FMC (like in Rubik's Cube)

< 22

• Tomoaki Okayama 1
• Moritz Karl 1

< 24

• Sébastien Auroux 2
• Tomoaki Okayama 1
• Moritz Karl 1
• Jimmy Coll 1
• István Kocza 1
• Adrian Lehmann 1

< 26

• Sébastien Auroux 10
• Tomoaki Okayama 3
• Erik Akkersdijk 3
• Moritz Karl 1
• Jimmy Coll 1
• István Kocza 1
• Adrian Lehmann 1
• Clément Gallet 1
• Tim Reynolds 1
• Yu Nakajima 1
• Javier Cabezuelo Sánchez 1
• Laura Ohrndorf 1
• Baiqiang Dong 1
• Bence Barát 1
• Guus Razoux Schultz 1
• Ron van Bruchem 1
• Teemu Tiinanen 1
• Shotaro Makisumi 1
• Joon Cha 1
• Steven Xu 1
• Yuki Tanaka 1

< 28

• Sébastien Auroux 33
• Tomoaki Okayama 7
• Erik Akkersdijk 6
• Daniel Sheppard 6
• Clément Gallet 3
• Tim Reynolds 3
• Javier Cabezuelo Sánchez 3
• Guus Razoux Schultz 3
• Teemu Tiinanen 3
• Jan Bentlage 3
• Steven Xu 2
• Alexander Olleta del Molino 2
• Arnaud van Galen 2
• David Woner 2
• Marcel Peters 2
• Michael Young 2

Spoiler: others

• Moritz Karl 1
• Jimmy Coll 1
• István Kocza 1
• Adrian Lehmann 1
• Yu Nakajima 1
• Laura Ohrndorf 1
• Baiqiang Dong 1
• Bence Barát 1
• Ron van Bruchem 1
• Shotaro Makisumi 1
• Joon Cha 1
• Yuki Tanaka 1
• Ali Salavati 1
• Devin Corr-Robinett 1
• Grzegorz Łuczyna 1
• Hideki Niina 1
• Linus Fresz 1
• Mats Valk 1
• Olivér Perge 1
• Olivier Polspoel 1
• Robert Yau 1
• Sergey Ryabko 1
• Abdelhak Kaddour 1
• Claudio Müller 1
• Dmitry Karyakin 1
• Fang Qin 1
• Guillain Potron 1
• Henrik Buus Aagaard 1
• Jakob Kogler 1
• Marcin Stachura 1
• Mikhail Rostovikov 1
• Quentin Savard 1
• Simon Westlund 1
• Stefan Pochmann 1
• Stephen Adhisaputra 1
• Thom Barlow 1
• Vincent Sheu 1
• Wataru Hashimura 1

EDIT: On average
< 30

• Sébastien Auroux 5
• Tomoaki Okayama 1
• Hideki Niina 1

 

[coldsun0630]

Sure, it's possible to cancel 7. But what he's wondering is how you found such a good cancellation on the second insertion. Why did you pick a first insertion that only cancels one move?

Nope, It's the first insertion which cancels seven moves.
The number of insertion doesn't mean what's first.

 

[irontwig]

Nope, It's the first insertion which cancels seven moves.
The number of insertion doesn't mean what's first.

The why did you number them in that way? Just fess up and say you used IF. More indications:

It's the first choice of IF
It uses the weird numbers in brackets, while most people prefer single characters such as period, colon, asterisk, etc

 

[coldsun0630]

The why did you number them in that way? Just fess up and say you used IF. More indications:

It's the first choice of IF
It uses the weird numbers in brackets, while most people prefer single characters such as period, colon, asterisk, etc

I didn't use IF and I don't care what IF choose first.
Also, I prefer number like [1], [2] more than such as * and #. It's just my preference.

Hey, is there any reason that I should cheat with using IF and fool you guys with posting the solution?
I came here because I just wanted to ask if there's any way to approach on L3C...

 

[Mirek]

I didn't use IF and I don't care what IF choose first.
Also, I prefer number like [1], [2] more than such as * and #. It's just my preference.

Hey, is there any reason that I should cheat with using IF and fool you guys with posting the solution?
I came here because I just wanted to ask if there's any way to approach on L3C...

Calm down. At least I believe you. I started with insertions when solving pretty pattern on the cube about 30 years ago. Never thought that such technique would be so important to many, today.
And, now, can somebody tell me what IF is? From reading this thread for a month or two I hava an idea that it may be a computer program searching for optimal insertions. Can it insert anything? Such as Sune or other pieces other than 3-cycles?

Mirek

 

[Txarli]

It seems, almost same his thoughts as me.
Would be useful see his some solutions...

Here are some of them and a brief explanation of his method (in Spanish): http://rubikaz.com/foro/viewtopic.php?p=162403#p162403

 

[Julian]

And, now, can somebody tell me what IF is? From reading this thread for a month or two I hava an idea that it may be a computer program searching for optimal insertions. Can it insert anything? Such as Sune or other pieces other than 3-cycles?

Mirek

Here.

Very intuitive, and very useful.

 

[okayama]

And, now, can somebody tell me what IF is? From reading this thread for a month or two I hava an idea that it may be a computer program searching for optimal insertions. Can it insert anything? Such as Sune or other pieces other than 3-cycles?

Mirek

Here.

Very intuitive, and very useful.

Just adding some information:

• The core part of IF was written by Yan Xuan and Shuang Chen, and the web interface was made by Baiqiang Dong.
• Basically IF uses commutators (pure / with 1 setup move), but sometimes not, especially for edges and 2c2c/2e2e.
• IF doesn't support Sune insertion and 2c2e insertion currently.
• IF sometimes misses pair 3-cycle insertion, although sometimes finds it as a result of corner 3-cycle and edge 3-cycle.

 

[Username]

Inspired by Daniel's video i decided to do an FMC attempt with a random scramble from qqtimer. This took about 45 minutes. Definitely PB (even thought the beginning was pretty easy)

R2 B2 D2 L2 B2 D2 L2 D' L2 U' L2 R F2 U' B D2 F R U' B' F2


U' L * D (2x2x2)
R' U2 L2 U R (2x2x3)
B U L' B # L2 U' L' U (F2L-1 + more block)

*[B' U2 B, D2] (Corner 3cycle)
# R' U' R U R L' B' R' B L (Edge 3cycle)


U' L B' U2 B D2 B' U2 B D' R' U2 L2 U R B U L' B R' U' R U R L' B' R' B L' U' L' U

I'm pretty happy with this

 

[irontwig]

Inspired by Daniel's video i decided to do an FMC attempt with a random scramble from qqtimer. This took about 45 minutes. Definitely PB (even thought the beginning was pretty easy)

R2 B2 D2 L2 B2 D2 L2 D' L2 U' L2 R F2 U' B D2 F R U' B' F2


U' L * D (2x2x2)
R' U2 L2 U R (2x2x3)
B U L' B # L2 U' L' U (F2L-1 + more block)

*[B' U2 B, D2] (Corner 3cycle)
# R' U' R U R L' B' R' B L (Edge 3cycle)


U' L B' U2 B D2 B' U2 B D' R' U2 L2 U R B U L' B R' U' R U R L' B' R' B L' U' L' U

I'm pretty happy with this

Not bad, but I don't understand why you went for that 2x2x3, here's my try (there's very probably a better finish):

U' L D L' B2 L' B2 L' B' L R2 F R U' B' U F' U' B R B U B' U' B U' (26)

U' L D
L' B2 L'
B2 L' B' L
R2 F R F' U'.R
B U B' U' B U'

.=U F U' B' U F' U' B

 

[Username]

Not bad, but I don't understand why you went for that 2x2x3, here's my try (there's very probably a better finish):

Because I didn't find a good continuation for the 2x2x3 you did. I'm not that good at FMC, you see

 

[kinch2002]

R2 B2 D2 L2 B2 D2 L2 D' L2 U' L2 R F2 U' B D2 F R U' B' F2

23 moves
2x2x2: U' L D (3)
Some EO: F' L F (6)
2x2x3+EO: B' L2 U2 B' L' B' (12)
F2L: U2 L U L' (16)
Sune finish: R' U2 R U R' U R (23)
Lucky finish

 

[irontwig]

23 moves
2x2x2: U' L D (3)
Some EO: F' L F (6)
2x2x3+EO: B' L2 U2 B' L' B' (12)
F2L: U2 L U L' (16)
Sune finish: R' U2 R U R' U R (23)
Lucky finish

U' B2 L D L2 B R B L' B' R2 L2 U' R U L' U2 B U2 (19)

U' B2 L D L2
B2 L' B':L
R' U' R.U' B U2

.=R' U L U' R U L' U'
:=B L B' R B L' B' R'

Lucky insertions

I like how the FU edge is kept flipped so long.

 

[porkynator]

Nice solve, but you deserve a for the "[@1]" you left in the solution and then edited out.

 

[irontwig]

Well, I did the first insertion myself, and since it's trivial to do optimal 3c insertions I let IF take care of that.

 

[Attila]

Here are some of them and a brief explanation of his method (in Spanish): http://rubikaz.com/foro/viewtopic.php?p=162403#p162403

I tried to figure out, how he solved this:


En el Válgame Open de Lo Pagán 2012 la mezcla (2º intento):


L F2 L2 R' D2 U2 B2 R' U2 B2 D2 L B' U B' L2 U' R2 D2 F' R'

La solución entregada fue:

B2 U' (L' R) D2 U' R D L D (R2 L2) U' L U B (L' R) U2 F (R' L) D' F2 R' B D L'


First time,I cut the parts of the solution, which does not change the corners:


B2 U' (L' R) D2 U' R D L D (R2 L2) U' L U B (L' R) U2 F (R' L) D' F2 R' B D L'


B2 U' x y2 U R D R2 U z' x U' x' F2 R' B D L'

which gives the following solution for corners:

B2 U' F L B2-B' L2 F U B' D R B'

the first slice-move is obviously:
B2 U' M F L B2-B' L2 F U B' D R B'
but the remaining three, he solved in what order and how to recognize, I'm not sure.