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[Help Thread] FMC Discussion
- Thread starter blah
- Start date
BQ
Regular
Yes, that would fix it I guess. I have no other ideas currently.
Now the IF gives all optimal results it found. Here's one case: http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/2d5f727c8770cdc8b594586a4b86ab1e.cube
mycube
Veteran
Can anyone explain me, why the IF can't find the optimal solution for this skeleton?
http://www.speedcubers.de/showthread.php?tid=4572&pid=175659#pid175659
Laura found this in the German forum competition some weeks ago and I can't explain it to myself. Maybe it is because there is a 9 move cancellation?
http://www.speedcubers.de/showthread.php?tid=4572&pid=175659#pid175659
Laura found this in the German forum competition some weeks ago and I can't explain it to myself. Maybe it is because there is a 9 move cancellation?
Brest
Moderator
BQ
Regular
Yeah, you are right. The IF consumes that after any insertion the moves should be more than before.
And, I have a question. Since Laura found a insertion with 9 moves cancellation, why didn't he do the L4C like U2 B2 R' D' U R' D R2 U' R'? I think that skeleton can be easy found.
Last edited by a moderator:
okayama
Veteran
My winning solution from Tachikawa 3x3 Fest 2013.
Scramble: D2 R2 U2 R' D2 B2 D2 L2 U' B2 R2 F' D2 U L F' L2 U' L2
Solution: D2 F U D F2 U R' U2 L2 F2 L U2 F2 R U' R' L' U L2 U L' U L U2 R2 (25 moves)
Scramble: D2 R2 U2 R' D2 B2 D2 L2 U' B2 R2 F' D2 U L F' L2 U' L2
Solution: D2 F U D F2 U R' U2 L2 F2 L U2 F2 R U' R' L' U L2 U L' U L U2 R2 (25 moves)
30 min backup solution.
Pre-scramble: L R2
Orient edges: D2 F
2x2x2 block: U D F2 U R'
2x2x3 block: U2 L2 F2 L
F2L minus 1 slot: U2 F2 R U' R'
Finish F2L: L' U L
LL: L U L' U L U2 L'
Correction: L R2
Relatively easy scramble, but I couldn't find any better solution in the remaining time.
Pre-scramble: L R2
Orient edges: D2 F
2x2x2 block: U D F2 U R'
2x2x3 block: U2 L2 F2 L
F2L minus 1 slot: U2 F2 R U' R'
Finish F2L: L' U L
LL: L U L' U L U2 L'
Correction: L R2
Relatively easy scramble, but I couldn't find any better solution in the remaining time.
porkynator
Veteran
fmc.mustcube.net round 463, no time limit.
Scramble: L' B U D L' R' D2 B L2 R' F2 U' F2 L2 F2 L' R U D2 L D2 L R' U D R' F2 D' B2 F'
It was fun to play with this method, but looking for 3 insertions is a pain.
Scramble: L' B U D L' R' D2 B L2 R' F2 U' F2 L2 F2 L' R U D2 L D2 L R' U D R' F2 D' B2 F'
Method: Columns (lol) with insertions
D2 F2 L U' L2 B' U B + //Pairs
U L' R * D' U F B' //Centres
* = R2 D2 R2 D2 R2 D2 //Some Edges
+ = B U' F' ° U B' U' F U //Corners
° = F D' F' D U' R D R' D' U //Edges
Final Solution: D2 F2 L U' L2 B' U B2 U' D' F' D U' R D R' D' U2 B' U' F U2 L' R' D2 R2 D2 R2 D U F B' (32 HTM, 30 STM and 26 ATM if I counted correctly)
D2 F2 L U' L2 B' U B + //Pairs
U L' R * D' U F B' //Centres
* = R2 D2 R2 D2 R2 D2 //Some Edges
+ = B U' F' ° U B' U' F U //Corners
° = F D' F' D U' R D R' D' U //Edges
Final Solution: D2 F2 L U' L2 B' U B2 U' D' F' D U' R D R' D' U2 B' U' F U2 L' R' D2 R2 D2 R2 D U F B' (32 HTM, 30 STM and 26 ATM if I counted correctly)
Sebastien
Premium Member
Laura is a "she".
That's the cool thing about insertions. You don't have to see things like that for making your skeleton, because if you're able to find the according insertion you will end up with this anyway.
Cubenovice
Forever Slow
N8W8 2013 FMC podium
1 Robert - 31 HTM
1 Sebastien - 31 HTM
1 Cubenovice - 31 HTM
Scramble: L2 D2 L2 B D2 F' D2 U2 F' D2 F' L U L2 F' U' B D' U2
My (too) simple solution:
1 Robert - 31 HTM
1 Sebastien - 31 HTM
1 Cubenovice - 31 HTM
Scramble: L2 D2 L2 B D2 F' D2 U2 F' D2 F' L U L2 F' U' B D' U2
My (too) simple solution:
On inverse:
U2 F L D2 B' U - 222 plus pair - 6
D2 F L' F2 L - XXcross plus pair - 11
R' F R - F2L-1 with edges oriented - 14
F' D' F2 D F2 D' F2 D - leaves 2C2E (Y-perm) - 22
Here I noted the inverse as solution up to 2C2E to check my solution so far.
D' F2 D F2 . D' F2 D F R' F' R L' F2 L F' D2 U' B D2 L' F' U2
And now the 2C2E are already in a 10 move LL alg configuration: F' R F' U2 B L' B' U2 F2 R'
And since none of these pieces are in the U-layer I perform this alg before the final U2 so it cancels the first move.
Final solution:
D' F2 D F2 D' F2 D F R' F' R L' F2 L F' D2 U' B D2 L' F2 R F' U2 B L' B' U2 F2 R' U2 = 31 HTM
Alternative:
at . insert F2 L' F L F2 R' L' F L F' R - two move cancel but since the insertion is 11 moves the net total is the same.
U2 F L D2 B' U - 222 plus pair - 6
D2 F L' F2 L - XXcross plus pair - 11
R' F R - F2L-1 with edges oriented - 14
F' D' F2 D F2 D' F2 D - leaves 2C2E (Y-perm) - 22
Here I noted the inverse as solution up to 2C2E to check my solution so far.
D' F2 D F2 . D' F2 D F R' F' R L' F2 L F' D2 U' B D2 L' F' U2
And
now the 2C2E are already in a 10 move LL alg configuration: F' R F' U2 B L' B' U2 F2 R'And since none of these pieces are in the U-layer I perform this alg before the final U2 so it cancels the first move.
Final solution:
D' F2 D F2 D' F2 D F R' F' R L' F2 L F' D2 U' B D2 L' F2 R F' U2 B L' B' U2 F2 R' U2 = 31 HTM
Alternative:
at . insert F2 L' F L F2 R' L' F L F' R - two move cancel but since the insertion is 11 moves the net total is the same.
Robert-Y
Legend
This is my solution. I'll just give the skeleton to 3 corners.
R' B D' F' U' F' - 2x2x2 block
B' L U' L' - simple expansion to 2x2x3
L' U R' U' L - expand to pseudo F2L-1
R U' R U2 F' U' F - complete pseudo F2L and EO
R' U2 - permute edges on right, then correct the top layer, leaving 3 corners
This totals to 23 moves to 3 corners.
I fail at insertions :fp
R' B D' F' U' F' - 2x2x2 block
B' L U' L' - simple expansion to 2x2x3
L' U R' U' L - expand to pseudo F2L-1
R U' R U2 F' U' F - complete pseudo F2L and EO
R' U2 - permute edges on right, then correct the top layer, leaving 3 corners
This totals to 23 moves to 3 corners.
I fail at insertions :fp
porkynator
Veteran
Can anyone find a good continuation?
Scramble: D' U' B2 U' L2 D2 U' R2 U' L2 U' F D F2 L F' L' D' R' F' R2
On normal:
L' U L U B
Switch to inverse with premoves B' U' L' U' L:
B' L' D F' R' D' (F2L-1 in 11 HTM)
The best I could find was a 34 HTM solution without insertions or a 17 HTM skeleton leaving 2 edges flipped, 2 other edges swapped, 2 corners swapped and 1 other corner twisted (sounds awful, but can be solved with 2 inserted algs).
Scramble: D' U' B2 U' L2 D2 U' R2 U' L2 U' F D F2 L F' L' D' R' F' R2
On normal:
L' U L U B
Switch to inverse with premoves B' U' L' U' L:
B' L' D F' R' D' (F2L-1 in 11 HTM)
The best I could find was a 34 HTM solution without insertions or a 17 HTM skeleton leaving 2 edges flipped, 2 other edges swapped, 2 corners swapped and 1 other corner twisted (sounds awful, but can be solved with 2 inserted algs).
Sebastien
Premium Member
U F R F' R' U' R2 U' B' R B U R2 leaves 2 twisted corners --> 30
U R F R' F' U' R' F R F' U' R' U R2 leaves 3 corners --> 32
still not very satisfying...
U R F R' F' U' R' F R F' U' R' U R2 leaves 3 corners --> 32
still not very satisfying...
kinch2002
Premium Member
This is what I found:
2x2x2: U F L2 F2 D (5)
But, insert 2 moves to make it a 2x2x3: U R2 D' F L2 F2 D (7) Note that the R2 places the extra edge and the D' sets up the YB edge (and luckily the YBR corner) to where they will need to be
Some EO + pair: B' U' B (10)
Square + pair : L U L2 (13)
Place them, leaving 4 corners: F U F' (16)
I couldn't be bothered to insert, but IF tells me 26 is optimal
Incidentally, 26 moves would have made UK NR a 4-way tie (3 for me, 1 for Rob)
Noahaha
blindmod
Hey guys! I know I'm a little late for this, but here are my solutions from worlds. Critique is welcome. I know insertions and premoves, but I haven't gotten around to figuring out NISS. Solve 1 was my first time using a premove. XD
Solve 1: 34
Scramble: U2 R' U F' L2 F' B' U' R U' F' R2 F2 D2 R2 F2 D' B2 D2
R' F R' D R F' D' - 2x2x2 (7/7)
B' L U' L' U' - 2x2x3 (5/12)
D L' D' - Pseudo F2L minus a corner (3/15)
(premove L')
R D' R' D * B D B' D' - To 4 corners (8/23)
* = U ** B D B' U' B D' B' - To 3 corners (2/25)
** = B U' F2 U B' U' F2 U - Last 3 corners (8/33)
L' - Undo premove (1/34)
Solution without cancellations:
R' F R' D R F' D' B' L U' L' U' D L' D' R D' R' D (U (B U' F2 U B' U' F2 U) B D B' U' B D' B') B D B' D' L'
Final solution:
R' F R' D R F' D' B' L U' L' U' D L' D' R D' R' D U B U' F2 U B' U' F2 U B D B' U' D' L'
NOTES: I got pretty lucky with the F2L, but I am proud of myself for inserting correctly even though I couldn't find any cancellations for the second one.
Solve 2: 31
Scramble: D' L2 R2 F2 D R2 D2 R D B2 F U' L B R F2 R2 D' U
F2 U2 B D' R - 2x2x2 (5/5)
L U B2 U' - Pseudo 2x2x3 (4/9)
(Premove B)
B D B' L D2 L D2 B D' B' - Pseudo F2L (10/19)
(Premove L2)
B' D F' D2 B D' B' D2 B F D2 - L perm LL (10/29 not counting cancelled move)
L2 B - Undo premoves (2/31)
Final solution: F2 U2 B D' R L U B2 U' B D B' L D2 L D2 B D' B2 D F' D2 B D' B' D2 B F D2 L2 B
NOTES: I'm not sure if this is a lol solution. On one hand, I used two premoves and had some nice blockbuilding at the beginning, but on the other, the end of F2L was very lucky and I got an OLL skip that cancelled into one of the shortest PLLs.
Any advice is welcome.
Solve 1: 34
Scramble: U2 R' U F' L2 F' B' U' R U' F' R2 F2 D2 R2 F2 D' B2 D2
R' F R' D R F' D' - 2x2x2 (7/7)
B' L U' L' U' - 2x2x3 (5/12)
D L' D' - Pseudo F2L minus a corner (3/15)
(premove L')
R D' R' D * B D B' D' - To 4 corners (8/23)
* = U ** B D B' U' B D' B' - To 3 corners (2/25)
** = B U' F2 U B' U' F2 U - Last 3 corners (8/33)
L' - Undo premove (1/34)
Solution without cancellations:
R' F R' D R F' D' B' L U' L' U' D L' D' R D' R' D (U (B U' F2 U B' U' F2 U) B D B' U' B D' B') B D B' D' L'
Final solution:
R' F R' D R F' D' B' L U' L' U' D L' D' R D' R' D U B U' F2 U B' U' F2 U B D B' U' D' L'
NOTES: I got pretty lucky with the F2L, but I am proud of myself for inserting correctly even though I couldn't find any cancellations for the second one.
Solve 2: 31
Scramble: D' L2 R2 F2 D R2 D2 R D B2 F U' L B R F2 R2 D' U
F2 U2 B D' R - 2x2x2 (5/5)
L U B2 U' - Pseudo 2x2x3 (4/9)
(Premove B)
B D B' L D2 L D2 B D' B' - Pseudo F2L (10/19)
(Premove L2)
B' D F' D2 B D' B' D2 B F D2 - L perm LL (10/29 not counting cancelled move)
L2 B - Undo premoves (2/31)
Final solution: F2 U2 B D' R L U B2 U' B D B' L D2 L D2 B D' B2 D F' D2 B D' B' D2 B F D2 L2 B
NOTES: I'm not sure if this is a lol solution. On one hand, I used two premoves and had some nice blockbuilding at the beginning, but on the other, the end of F2L was very lucky and I got an OLL skip that cancelled into one of the shortest PLLs.
Any advice is welcome.
ottozing
Platinum Member
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Better L perms for FMC:
F2 L' U' L F2 R' D R' D' R2
R2 D R D' R F2 L' U L F2
That's all I've really got though. My FMC had the exact same pseudo 2x2x3 solution as you and ended with easy F2L into 1LLL (With the same 2 premoves as well
).
F2 L' U' L F2 R' D R' D' R2
R2 D R D' R F2 L' U L F2
That's all I've really got though. My FMC had the exact same pseudo 2x2x3 solution as you and ended with easy F2L into 1LLL (With the same 2 premoves as well
).
porkynator
Veteran
In that case you could also use a pair 3-cycle, so that you don't have to AUF: R2 U' B2 U B2 D' B2 D B2 R2 (you can see it as [ R2 : U' B2 U, Fw2 ]). But you a cancellation, so the result is the same
Sebastien
Premium Member
Got 29 on the current FMC Mustcube Scramble (quite hard one in my opinion) and forgot again to add the slashes. 
Did the page get fixed meanwhile?
Did the page get fixed meanwhile?
okayama
Veteran
I don't think so, unfortunately.Got 29 on the current FMC Mustcube Scramble (quite hard one in my opinion) and forgot again to add the slashes.
Did the page get fixed meanwhile?
You should submit it again with backslashes.
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ryn ball
Regular
Hello FMC thread, I did FMC at this random scramble: D' F' R' U' L2 R' F' U B2 R' L F D2 U2 B R' F2 D B2 F D' L D' F2 R2
Here's my partial solution:
B2 R2 D2 R D' (1x2x2 5/5)
U' L R' D2 R2 B R' (back block 7/12)
F2 L F' L' R U' R' (EO 7/19)
U2 F U' F' U F2 (6/25)
I'm currently stuck at this Last 3 corners
, what is your solution here? Thanks!
Here's my partial solution:
B2 R2 D2 R D' (1x2x2 5/5)
U' L R' D2 R2 B R' (back block 7/12)
F2 L F' L' R U' R' (EO 7/19)
U2 F U' F' U F2 (6/25)
I'm currently stuck at this Last 3 corners
, what is your solution here? Thanks!
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Sebastien
Premium Member
Insertions?
B2 R2 D2 R D' U' L R' D2 R2 B [@1] R' F2 L F' L' R U' R' U2 F U' F' U F2
Insert at @1: B' L B R B' L' B R'
Fewest moves: 30. 3 moves cancelled
The final solution: B2 R2 D2 R D' U' L R' D2 R2 L B R B' L' B R2 F2 L F' L' R U' R' U2 F U' F' U F2
Hm, might do this later. Unfortunately I closed the window before thinking about it, so I have to write it all again. Has anyone tried to ask Per personally about this yet?
B2 R2 D2 R D' U' L R' D2 R2 B [@1] R' F2 L F' L' R U' R' U2 F U' F' U F2
Insert at @1: B' L B R B' L' B R'
Fewest moves: 30. 3 moves cancelled
The final solution: B2 R2 D2 R D' U' L R' D2 R2 L B R B' L' B R2 F2 L F' L' R U' R' U2 F U' F' U F2
Hm, might do this later. Unfortunately I closed the window before thinking about it, so I have to write it all again. Has anyone tried to ask Per personally about this yet?
