[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[MarcelP]

I got stuck at the weekly comp 21

warning, ungoing competition

Spoiler

Scramble F' D R' U L B' U2 L F' U D2 B' U2 R2 B' R2 B R2 B2 U2 B'

Pre move F' L2 (2)

R D L' D2 //2 X 2 X 1 (6)
L' U // ANOTHER 2 X 2 X 1 (8)

L U R B2 R' L U F2 R U' R' // F2L -1 (19)

EDIT: I have found this after F2L -1 but that is waaay to many moves:

EDIT :

Spoiler

3x3x3 Fewest Moves
1. F' D R' U L B' U2 L F' U D2 B' U2 R2 B' R2 B R2 B2 U2 B'

Pre move F' L2 (2)

R D L' D2 //2 X 2 X 1 (6)
L' U // ANOTHER 2 X 2 X 2 (8)

L U R (@1) B2 R' L U F2 R U' R' // F2l -1 (19)
F U2 F' U F U' F' U' L' U L U2 // (33) all but 3 corners and two egdes

@1 L U L' D L U' L' D' // 3 CORNER CYCLE

Now I am stuck with two freaning edges.. LOL. How do I go about to fix that? I know edges cycles cost a lot of moves

Any tips appreciated.

 

[TheNextFeliks]

Scramble: F' U2 R2 B L2 R2 F R2 F L2 R2 U L' D B D' F' U' R F' U'
My solution: L2 F L U' L' B' L2 D2 B2 D' L B' L' B' L B R B' L B' R2 B L2 B' R2 B2 D' R' D' R D' R' B' D' B L2 D 37 moves
Inverse with premoves L B L' D B2 D2 L2 B L U L' F' L2
D' //NICE CONTINUE [1/1]
L2//F2L-1 [1/2]
B' D B //[3/5] ORIENT
R D R' D R D (R' //[6/11]EDGES
R) (B' B') R2 B L2 B' R2 B (L2 L) B R' B' L' B//[13/24]4 CORNERS
L B L' D B2 D2 L2 B L U L' F' L2 //[13/37]correction
Any tips? used insertion finder for the insertion.

 

[irontwig]

After your F2L-1 you could've left three corners like this:

B' D B D2 R [EO+Pseudo F2L]
L D L' D L D2 L' D [Sune to leave three corners]
R' [Undo psuedoness]

Edit:
My quick attempt on the same scramble:

B' F2 R U' F B' D B L' F L R' D' R F D B D' F2 D B' F D F' U' F D2 F' U' (29)

B' F2 R U' [2x2x2]
F B' D B [2x2x3]
L' F L R' D' R [EO]
F' D:F D'.F' U2 [Leaving four corners]

.=D2 F' U' F D2 F' U F
:=D' F2 D B D' F2 D B'

I didn't even bother to go through the whole skeleton, as I work from the end I found two good enough insertions just a few moves in.

 

[Iggy]

My first ever attempt with NISS.

Scramble: L2 U2 F2 R' B2 F2 R D2 U' L2 R2 F' L' U2 B2 F' D2 L' R2 F' L D2 U R2 D'
My solution: R' U' F' D R2 D' B R' B2 R' B2 U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 B' U' B2 U' F' U B2 U' F U2 D B' D' L B' L' B D' B (38)

2x2x3 block: R' U' F' D R2 D' B R'
Switch to inverse: (Premoves: R B' D R2 D' F U R)
F2L-1: B' D B' L B L'
Orient edges: D B D'
Switch to normal: (Premoves: D B' D' L B' L' B D' B)
F2L-1: R' U' F' D R2 D' B R'
F2L: B2 R' B2 R
Edges + 1 corner: R' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 B'
Corner commutator: U' B2 U' F' U B2 U' F U2

38 is good for me, but definitely isn't the best. Tips are greatly appreciated.

 

[irontwig]

Don't switch too much though, it can be a waste of time, found this straightforward continuation after your 2x2x3:

R' U' F' D R2 D' B R' [Your 2x2x3]
D2 B2 L'.D2 L [F2L-1]
B' D' B' D [F2L]
U B U' B U B2 U' [CLL]

.=L D' L' D2 U2 R D R' D2 U2

R' U' F' D R2 D' B R' D2 B2 D' L' D2 U2 R D R' U2 L B' D' B' D U B U' B U B2 U' (30)

Also solving the LL optimally is easy:
U B U' B U*B2 U'
*=U2 L' U2 F2 D2 R' D2 F2

 

[mycube]

2x2x3 block: R' U' F' D R2 D' B R'
Switch to inverse: (Premoves: R B' D R2 D' F U R)
F2L-1: B' D B' L B L'
Orient edges: D B D'
switch:
F2L: B2 R' B2 R B'

So your skeleton is:
R' U' F' D R2 D' B R' B2 R' B2 R B' D B' D' L B' L' B D' B
so you have to do two insertions IF says optimal is a movecount of 32

Edit: ninja'd from erik with a better solution.

 

[Ninja Storm]

I don't know anything about FMC, its terminology, or what the basic methods are. Are there any links for a n00b to get started?

 

[irontwig]

http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Fewest_Moves_techniques

And study a bunch of solves.

 

[okayama]

My winning solution from Japan Open 2013.

Scramble: U B U F R D L U L' U' R' U' D2 F2 U' L2 U' L2 D2
Solution: U' R U D L' U2 L D R' F2 R D' L2 B' U' B U' L U L2 U' L' U' L' U D2 R F' U B' U' (31 moves)

Spoiler

Here is my 30 min backup solution.

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: D L U2 L2 D' R'

1x2x2 block: U B
1x2x3 block: U' F *
More square: R'
F2L minus 1 slot: D2 L D' U
Finish F2L: U R' U' R
All but 3 corners: L' B' D' B D L
Correction: D L U2 L2 D' R'

Insert at *: B2 D' F' D B2 D' F D (Huh!? no cancel????)

The best I could do in the remaining time was as follows.

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: L2 D' U' R' U

1x2x2 block: U B
1x2x3 block: U' F
2x2x3 block: R' D2
More square: U' L
More square: U L U
Finish F2L: L2 U' L' U B' U B
LL: L2 D R' F2 R D' L' U2 L'
Correction: L2 D' U' R' U

I'm very ashamed that I couldn't achieve (even) Sub 30 for this looks-nice scramble. :fp :fp :fp

 

[guusrs]

HI
Don't be ashamed Tomoaki, we all suffer from hard scrambles these days:
Today Eindhoven open was very hard: D' U' F2 L2 U' B2 L2 U R2 U' R U L' D2 F' U B U' L2 B' U
There are 11 "bad" pairs in it.
My result: 33 moves, but anyway the name Guus was on the top of the results
Guus de Wit won with a PB of 29 moves, an excellent solve for such an scramble.
Can anyone sub-30 on this?

 

[irontwig]

My winning solution from Japan Open 2013.

Scramble: U B U F R D L U L' U' R' U' D2 F2 U' L2 U' L2 D2
Solution: U' R U D L' U2 L D R' F2 R D' L2 B' U' B U' L U L2 U' L' U' L' U D2 R F' U B' U' (31 moves)

Spoiler

Here is my 30 min backup solution.

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: D L U2 L2 D' R'

1x2x2 block: U B
1x2x3 block: U' F *
More square: R'
F2L minus 1 slot: D2 L D' U
Finish F2L: U R' U' R
All but 3 corners: L' B' D' B D L
Correction: D L U2 L2 D' R'

Insert at *: B2 D' F' D B2 D' F D (Huh!? no cancel????)

The best I could do in the remaining time was as follows.

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: L2 D' U' R' U

1x2x2 block: U B
1x2x3 block: U' F
2x2x3 block: R' D2
More square: U' L
More square: U L U
Finish F2L: L2 U' L' U B' U B
LL: L2 D R' F2 R D' L' U2 L'
Correction: L2 D' U' R' U

I'm very ashamed that I couldn't achieve (even) Sub 30 for this looks-nice scramble. :fp :fp :fp

No sub-30 (in HTM), but here's my attempt:

B U' D F D R' U2 L' B' L B R B' L' B D' R' L' B2 L2 F L F' L2 F L F' L2 B2 R' (30)

B U' D F [EO]
D [Inserted move]
R' U2 [Pseudo X-cross+3x1 line]
L'.R D' R' L' B2 [Pseudo F2L-1 corner]
L2 F L F' L2 F L F' L2 [Leaving three corners]
B2 R' [Pseudoness]

.=B' L B R B' L' B R'

There's probably a better way of finishing this up.

 

[Iggy]

My shortest attempt so far:

Scramble: L' R2 D' B2 U B L R' U' B2 U' L2 U2 L2 R' B' D' B D' U' L2 R' U2 L2 F'
My solution: U L' D' R2 U B D2 B' U' B D B' L' U2 L2 F' L U' L U L' U' L2 U L2 U2 L U L2 U' L2 (31)

2x2x2: U L' D' R2 B * D' B'
2x2x3: L' U2 L2 F'
(switch to inverse)
F2L-1: L2 U L2 U' L' U2
(switch to normal)
All edges except 3: L U' L2 U
Leaving 3 corners: U' L' U L' U' L2 U L2 (2 cancellations)
Undo premoves: U2 L U L2 U' L2

*= B' U B D2 B' U' B D2 (2 cancellations)

Not bad. Tips are appreciated.

 

[Attila]

FMC round452.

Scramble: D2 U B R D2 F' U L D' B L2 U' L' D2 B2 U2
F D2 U2 F' U' R' D2 F' D2 F' U R2 B2 D'

Solution:
F2 U' R2 U' R F B' L B R2 L2 F R' L2 F2 D R2 L2 U' B2 L D2 R L'B2 25 moves.
Explanation:
F2 U' R2 U' R F B' orient corners, and 2 edges,
added premoves F2 B2, more 3 edges,
L B R2 L2 F all corners, more 1 edge,
R' L2 F2 D R2 L2 U' B2 L D2 R L' F2 L6E.

Another solution:
F2 U L' R F2 R2 B' D R B R' B F' U F2 B L2 F' B' U' R L' B D2 R2 25 moves.
Explanation:
F2 U L' R F2 R2 B' D R orient corners, and 5 edges,
B R' B F' U more 1 edge,
F2 B L2 F' B' U' R L' B D2 R2 L6E.

 

[solvelecewbe]

I want to start fmc, i know nothing about it. Does anyone know of a page that explains all this pre-scramble commutator insertion skeleton stuff?

 

[irontwig]

FMC round452.

Scramble: D2 U B R D2 F' U L D' B L2 U' L' D2 B2 U2
F D2 U2 F' U' R' D2 F' D2 F' U R2 B2 D'

Solution:
F2 U' R2 U' R F B' L B R2 L2 F R' L2 F2 D R2 L2 U' B2 L D2 R L'B2 25 moves.
Explanation:
F2 U' R2 U' R F B' orient corners, and 2 edges,
added premoves F2 B2, more 3 edges,
L B R2 L2 F all corners, more 1 edge,
R' L2 F2 D R2 L2 U' B2 L D2 R L' F2 L6E.

Another solution:
F2 U L' R F2 R2 B' D R B R' B F' U F2 B L2 F' B' U' R L' B D2 R2 25 moves.
Explanation:
F2 U L' R F2 R2 B' D R orient corners, and 5 edges,
B R' B F' U more 1 edge,
F2 B L2 F' B' U' R L' B D2 R2 L6E.

Excellent solutions, next time you can try to write \' instead of ' in the comments. It worked for me for the 1h scramble, it didn't for the 10 minute one though for whatever reason, so here it is:

Scramble: B2 R2 L2 D2 B' U R D2 B U F2 U' L' D' B2 F U R B2 D2 B' F D' R2 F L' R F2 U' F

D' F2 [Square]
R2 D' [Moving pairs out of harm's way]
L' D' L' [2x2x2]
R2 F2 U [2x2x3 minus one move]
F U2 F R' U' [F2L-1]
R2 U' B' R B U [Finishing F2L and leaving three corners]
F2 D2 F U2 F' D2 F U2 F [Last three corners] (30)

 

[Attila]

next time you can try to write \' instead of ' in the comments.

OK, thanks!

 

[okayama]

Excellent solutions, next time you can try to write \' instead of ' in the comments. It worked for me for the 1h scramble, it didn't for the 10 minute one though for whatever reason, so here it is:

Scramble: B2 R2 L2 D2 B' U R D2 B U F2 U' L' D' B2 F U R B2 D2 B' F D' R2 F L' R F2 U' F

D' F2 [Square]
R2 D' [Moving pairs out of harm's way]
L' D' L' [2x2x2]
R2 F2 U [2x2x3 minus one move]
F U2 F R' U' [F2L-1]
R2 U' B' R B U [Finishing F2L and leaving three corners]
F2 D2 F U2 F' D2 F U2 F [Last three corners] (30)

I think you forgot to insert \ before the red color ' (just my guess, though).

The workaround is quite a pain and I really hope that the problem will be solved in a proper way.
Can anyone contact Per...? He still does not make any response to my private message,
so he may not notice this problem.

 

[Cubenovice]

I want to start fmc, i know nothing about it. Does anyone know of a page that explains all this pre-scramble commutator insertion skeleton stuff?

How bout reading the very first post of the page your question is on?

 

[mycube]

How bout reading the very first post of the page your question is on?

or reading the first post of page 188 from irontwig. it's exactly what you want.

 

[Cubenovice]

or reading the first post of page 188 from irontwig. it's exactly what you want.

His question is on page 188