[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[Ollie]

Ok, can some one explain how I go about to cycle these three edges..

There's a 10 move HTM commutator: y U M2 U' [L2] U M2 U' [L2] y' which is fairly long and fairly useless. (btw, that alg is executed with the green stickers oriented on the D face )

I'd only use that if the 6 move HTM edge insertion isn't possible *(M' U2 M U2) or the 7 move variation *(U M' U2 M U)

EDIT: sorry, I think you just wanted to know about either of these* algs

 

[irontwig]

(R2 U R2 f2)2 Though tbh honest I can't really explain why that cycles three edges, seems like magic

 

[MarcelP]

There's a 10 move HTM commutator: y U M2 U' [L2] U M2 U' [L2] y' which is fairly long and fairly useless. (btw, that alg is executed with the green stickers oriented on the D face )

I'd only use that if the 6 move HTM edge insertion isn't possible *(M' U2 M U2) or the 7 move variation *(U M' U2 M U)

EDIT: sorry, I think you just wanted to know about either of these* algs

(R2 U R2 f2)2 Though tbh honest I can't really explain why that cycles three edges, seems like magic

Thanks guys, I a complete noob in FMC. I know how to cycle edges with PLL's. But as soon as they are not on the same face I get lost.. I will try to find an insert with the algs from Ollie. If that fails I will use the alg of Irontwig. That is a pretty nifty alg btw. How did you come up wit that? Just lots of FMC experience?

Edit: Both (R2 U R2 f2)2 and y U M2 U' [L2] U M2 U' [L2] y leave the green/yellow edge flipped.

 

[Cubenovice]

Edit: Both (R2 U R2 f2)2 and y U M2 U' [L2] U M2 U' [L2] y leave the green/yellow edge flipped.

both algs work for oriented edges. I guess the orientation of the top piece was overlooked by both Erik and Ollie.

But still a great alg by Erik!

edit: Here's a 10 mover that is very easy to remember: R F R F R F' R' F' R' F'

 

[MarcelP]

I have all edges fixed on last layer. How do I move these corners?

 

[Username]

1 corner twist and a 3-cycle. Insertions are the way to go i guess

 

[mycube]

two commutators: 1st have to be with the twisted corner and have to solve another one.
hold white on the left side and blue in front:
R' F' R B' R' F R B
the secound one have to solve the last 3 corners:
B' R B L' B' R' B L
when you do this two commutators there are some cancellations:
R' F' R B' R' F R B B' R B L' B' R' B L -> R' F' R B' R' F R2 B L' B' R' B L
13 moves instead of 16.

or you can insert commutators in the solve so there is the high chance to cancel more than just 3 moves

 

[Cubenovice]

A bit late but i found the same as linus...

in wca scrambling otientation (as we're thinking FMC):
D' B' D F' D' B D F - F' D F U' F' D' F U

Take care when doing this at the end:
You could also break out the twisted one and solve white-orange-blue with: U' L D L' U L D' L' to leave three corners.
BUT this reult cannot be solved in 8 moves.

Always explore your options.

But in genral you use insertions for this:
1st insertion has to solve one corner + move the twisted one
2nd solves the remaining 3 corners

For the 1st you can typically cancel a lot of moves as you have many options.

 

[MarcelP]

two commutators: 1st have to be with the twisted corner and have to solve another one.
hold white on the left side and blue in front:
R' F' R B' R' F R B
the secound one have to solve the last 3 corners:
B' R B L' B' R' B L
when you do this two commutators there are some cancellations:
R' F' R B' R' F R B B' R B L' B' R' B L -> R' F' R B' R' F R2 B L' B' R' B L
13 moves instead of 16.

or you can insert commutators in the solve so there is the high chance to cancel more than just 3 moves

You are awesome! I can learn from this. Thanks a lot!

 

[kinch2002]

Nottingham Open 2013

Scramble: F B U2 D' L U' D' B R' D' R B2 D2 R2 U2 D2 B2 L' B2 R

My 31 move solution

Spoiler

Inverse scramble: R' B2 L B2 D2 U2 R2 D2 B2 R' D R B' D U L' D U2 B' F'
2x2x3: F2 L2 U F2 R' L2 U L F' (9) The basic 2x2x2 is F2 L2 U L', which I used as a basis for the whole 2x2x3
Another square: F' U' F (11)
Another square: U D R B R' B' D' (18) This is basically just FURU'R'F' on the LL
Fix squares, leaving 3 twisted corners and 2 flipped edges: R2 U (20)
Finish: B F U F2 L F L2 U L U2 B' (31) My favourite FM alg! (with a setup move)

Other stuff
Switch to normal after F2L-1 above by doing premoves U2 F' U F2 L' U' R L2 F2 U' L2 F2
F2L: U' R U (15)
Last layer sucked though, although my normal OLL leaves A perm at 26 moves. Insertion wasn't good enough to beat 31 moves.

Also found this interesting solution:
Premove U2 and inverse scramble
2x2x3: F2 L2 U B' D B R F L' (9)
Some EO: B U' B' (12)
F2L: R U' F' U2 F (17+1 PM)
Optimal Z perm to leave 3 corners: F' B R2 L2 F' B L' B2 F2 R D2 U2 (26)
The insertion wasn't good enough to beat 31 unfortunately.

 

[irontwig]

Love that alg too, Daniel. Not sure if this been brought up in this thread, but I noticed that Attila went to his first comp last year and managed to find a not too shabby 30 move solution (although I'm sure it was sub-30 in STM):
http://worldcubeassociation.org/results/p.php?i=2012HORV01

 

[guusrs]

Scramble: F B U2 D' L U' D' B R' D' R B2 D2 R2 U2 D2 B2 L' B2 R

my 10min - little lucky - 21 move frame with 3 corners left:

Spoiler

2x2x3 + pair: U2 L U' L2 D2 F2 U2 B' U' B' (10)
inserted move L2 (11)
F2L-1: F R U' R' F' (16)
3 corners left: L2 F' L' F L (21)

who'll find the best insertion?

 

[Cubenovice]

my 10min - little lucky - 21 move frame with 3 corners left:

Spoiler

U2 L U' L2 D2 F2 U2 B' U' B' L2 F R U' R' F' L2 F' L' F L (21)

who'll find the best insertion?

My meh solutions:

Spoiler

U2 L U' L2 D2 F2 U2 B' . U' B' L2 F : R U' R' F' L2 F' L' F L (21)

. F2 U B U' F2 U B' U' cancels 1 move (28)
or
: F U B' U' F' U B U' cancels 1 move (28)

edit: glad that Insertion Finder agrees on 28 being the max obtainable...
Insertion hunting while intoxicated feels only so-so

 

[okayama]

Jimmy Liu gave me a nice scramble: D2 F' R2 F' D2 L2 F R2 B R2 F2 U' R' U B L' R2 B2 D2 F'
He solved it as R' L F L F L' F' D' F' D F D2 L' B D B' D2 B D' B' F' D2 F D F' D F D2 (28), and wondered if there's sub 20 solution.

My quick attempt resulted in 23 moves, but no better solution was found.
R' L F L2 * D L2 D2 L B' L2 % B L' D L
Insert at *: L' U' L D L' U L D'
Insert at %: R2 B L2 B' R2 B L2 B'

Anyone?

 

[Cubenovice]

Jimmy Liu gave me a nice scramble: D2 F' R2 F' D2 L2 F R2 B R2 F2 U' R' U B L' R2 B2 D2 F'
He solved it as R' L F L F L' F' D' F' D F D2 L' B D B' D2 B D' B' F' D2 F D F' D F D2 (28), and wondered if there's sub 20 solution.

My quick attempt resulted in 23 moves, but no better solution was found.
Anyone?

R' L F - F2L-1 minus one corner
switch to inverse
D L D' L' - make pair + bring up the missing F2L-1 corner
R' D L D' R - keyhole corner builds square and last F2L pair
L' B D' B' D L - hammer pair leaves 3 corners in 18 HTM
Best insertion I found cancels 2 moves for 24 HTM total...

I was hoping for a good insertion with three sledgehammers in the skeleton

 

[irontwig]

Jimmy Liu gave me a nice scramble: D2 F' R2 F' D2 L2 F R2 B R2 F2 U' R' U B L' R2 B2 D2 F'
He solved it as R' L F L F L' F' D' F' D F D2 L' B D B' D2 B D' B' F' D2 F D F' D F D2 (28), and wondered if there's sub 20 solution.

My quick attempt resulted in 23 moves, but no better solution was found.
R' L F L2 * D L2 D2 L B' L2 % B L' D L
Insert at *: L' U' L D L' U L D'
Insert at %: R2 B L2 B' R2 B L2 B'

Anyone?

CE gives D2 L' B2 U' F' U2 R2 U2 F U B2 D2 L D L' D (16f*) as a finish after the obvious 2x2x3 for a 19 move total, but I don't understand it all. It seems that the optimal finish after 2x2x3 is about 15-16 htm on average and I've been wondering if anything can be gathered from these solutions, or if it's just special cases and computer magic.

 

[Brest]

CE gives D2 L' B2 U' F' U2 R2 U2 F U B2 D2 L D L' D (16f*) as a finish after the obvious 2x2x3 for a 19 move total, but I don't understand it all. It seems that the optimal finish after 2x2x3 is about 15-16 htm on average and I've been wondering if anything can be gathered from these solutions, or if it's just special cases and computer magic.

There is also:

D2 F' R2 F' D2 L2 F R2 B R2 F2 U' R' U B L' R2 B2 D2 F'

R' L F

F L U2 R U' L B' U2 R' D F' L' F' L D' F' U (17f)
F L2 F' L D' L' D L2 D2 B D2 B' D' F' D' F D (17f)
F L' B' L' U D F2 U F' U F' U' D' L2 F' B L (17f)
F2 B' U2 F' U F' L F L F B' U F' B U F' B (17f)

 

[kinch2002]

Jimmy Liu gave me a nice scramble: D2 F' R2 F' D2 L2 F R2 B R2 F2 U' R' U B L' R2 B2 D2 F'

Leave 3 corners and 3 edges: R' D2 L F B' L' B D' L D2 L' D
cba to insert. IF gives 23 moves

Skeleton: R' D2 [@1] L F B' L' B D' L D2 L' D
Insert at @1: L U2 R2 B R2 U2 L2 F L
After the 1st insertion: R' D2 L U2 R2 B R2 U2 L2 [@2] F L2 F B' L' B D' L D2 L' D
Insert at @2: R' F L2 F' R F L2 F'
The final solution: R' D2 L U2 R2 B R2 U2 L2 R' F L2 F' R F2 B' L' B D' L D2 L' D (23)

 

[mycube]

R' L D2 F - 2x2x3
D' L D2 F' D' F - another 1x2x2
L2 B' L B L B' L' B - LL
L' D L - 21 Moves linear LL-Skip

 

[okayama]

I noticed that there's no result for FMC449/official and FMC449/classic.
I reported the problem to Per (mrCage).

FYI here is my solution for 1-hour. I submitted the same solution for classic.

Scramble: B' F' D' R U2 D B R L' F U D' R B2 L2 B' R2 D L' F' U' B2 F' R L B2 L D' L2 B2
Solution: F' R U' F2 U2 F2 U2 R' U2 F' U F R U L B L' U L B' L2 D F2 L2 (24 moves)

Spoiler

Here is my 30 min backup solution.

Pre-scramble: U R2 D2 F2 B R

2x2x2 block: (ready)
2x2x3 block: F' U' F R'
Finish F2L: U B U B * U' R' U' R
All but 3 corners: R' U' B' U B R B
Correction: U R2 D2 F2 B R

Insert at *: R' D2 R U2 R' D2 R U2

In the remaining time, I found the following solution.

Pre-scramble: L' D F2 L2

2x2x2 block: (ready)
F2L minus 1 slot: F' R U' F2 U2 F2
All but 3 c/e pairs: U2 R' U2 F' U F R U2
Pair 3-cycle: U' L B L' U L B' L'
Correction: L' D F2 L2