Cubenovice
Forever Slow
B2 D' - square - 2
B U L' U' L U F' - 2x2x3 - 9
B D' B' D' - F2L-1 - 13 not too nice but you could try some niss and or insert some moves
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[Help Thread] FMC Discussion
- Thread starter blah
- Start date
B2 D' - square - 2
B U L' U' L U F' - 2x2x3 - 9
B D' B' D' - F2L-1 - 13 not too nice but you could try some niss and or insert some moves
Selkie
Premium Member
Have F2L in 18 - Will work on completing later but may yet take it back to F2L-1 for continuation or looking at adding an insert...
On Inverse
B' F' U' F // 2x2x1
Switch to Normal
Premoves F' U F B
D F U2 // 2x2x2
B2 D B D // 3x2x2
B' R B2 R2 B // F2L-1
R B // Pseudo 3x2x1 - Requires B' Premove for F2l making Premoves B' F' U F B
B' F' U' F // 2x2x1
Switch to Normal
Premoves F' U F B
D F U2 // 2x2x2
B2 D B D // 3x2x2
B' R B2 R2 B // F2L-1
R B // Pseudo 3x2x1 - Requires B' Premove for F2l making Premoves B' F' U F B
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irontwig
Veteran
D' B U2 F' D' F B2 U2 R' B U B2 R B R2 U R U' F' U' B' U F U' R2 B R' F' B2 (29)
D' B U2
F' D' F B2
U2
R'.:B' R2 B
R' F' B2
.=B U B2 R B R2 U R U2
:=U F' U' B' U F U' B
Cubenovice
Forever Slow
Cool two insertions of this alg on the same page!!!
KCuber
Veteran
First Time Doing FMC
Scramble: F' L U B2 D L B' L2 R D R B2 L D' B U2 B' F' D' F' D' L2 R' F' L2 F2 D2 U L2 R
Solution:
2x2: F L F' L2 D2
2X2X3: L' B' U' B2 U L2
F2L 1: B U B' U' B U B' U2 B2
F2L 2: U2 B L' B' L
OLL: F R2 B' R' B R'
PLL: U' F U F U F U' F' U' F2 U
Solution: F L F' L2 D2 L' B' U' B2 U L2 B U B' U' B U B' U2 B2 U2 B L' B' L F R2 B' R' B R' U' F U F U F U' F' U' F2 U
If you could give me any tips i would appreciate it it!
Scramble: F' L U B2 D L B' L2 R D R B2 L D' B U2 B' F' D' F' D' L2 R' F' L2 F2 D2 U L2 R
Solution:
2x2: F L F' L2 D2
2X2X3: L' B' U' B2 U L2
F2L 1: B U B' U' B U B' U2 B2
F2L 2: U2 B L' B' L
OLL: F R2 B' R' B R'
PLL: U' F U F U F U' F' U' F2 U
Solution: F L F' L2 D2 L' B' U' B2 U L2 B U B' U' B U B' U2 B2 U2 B L' B' L F R2 B' R' B R' U' F U F U F U' F' U' F2 U
If you could give me any tips i would appreciate it it!
Last edited:
Pyjam
Premium Member
Quick try.
First, there's a typo in your 223 block, it's:
222 : F L F' L2 D2
223 : L' B' U' B2 U L2
After that, there's an easy 221 block with:
B' L' B2 L
But it doesn't match the 223 block, so you need a premove.
Both B' as premove (before the scramble) + B' L' B2 L B2
and B2 as premove + B' L' B2 L B'
give F2L -1 slot
I choose B' + B' L' B2 L B2
Now we need to orient the edges.
y F' U' F does the job.
Now, we did not complete the F2L but we place all the edges while trying to form some blocks.
Here, we have an easy case:
R U' R' U2
Now, there's only 4 corners to cycle, and the cube will be solved.
Until now, we have:
Premove B' // 1
F L F' L2 D2 // 6
L' B' U' B2 U L2 // 12
B' L' B2 L B2 // 17
y F' U' F // 20
R U' R' U2 // 24
It's better to remove the cube rotation, and to move the premove to the end.
F L F' L2 D2
L' B' U' B2 U L2
B' L' B2 L B2
R' U' R B U' B' U2
B'
This is a 24 moves skeleton in which we need to insert two 3-corner cycles in order to get cancellations.
But it's too late here, and Insertion Finder is down... Sorry.
With the first permutation, we only need to place one corner. So, we'll probably get a lot of cancellations: 3, or 4, or even more.
With the second one, we hope 1 or 2 cancellations.
24 moves + 2x 8 for the insertions - 5 = 35 moves.
A 35 moves solution is likely.
First, there's a typo in your 223 block, it's:
222 : F L F' L2 D2
223 : L' B' U' B2 U L2
After that, there's an easy 221 block with:
B' L' B2 L
But it doesn't match the 223 block, so you need a premove.
Both B' as premove (before the scramble) + B' L' B2 L B2
and B2 as premove + B' L' B2 L B'
give F2L -1 slot
I choose B' + B' L' B2 L B2
Now we need to orient the edges.
y F' U' F does the job.
Now, we did not complete the F2L but we place all the edges while trying to form some blocks.
Here, we have an easy case:
R U' R' U2
Now, there's only 4 corners to cycle, and the cube will be solved.
Until now, we have:
Premove B' // 1
F L F' L2 D2 // 6
L' B' U' B2 U L2 // 12
B' L' B2 L B2 // 17
y F' U' F // 20
R U' R' U2 // 24
It's better to remove the cube rotation, and to move the premove to the end.
F L F' L2 D2
L' B' U' B2 U L2
B' L' B2 L B2
R' U' R B U' B' U2
B'
This is a 24 moves skeleton in which we need to insert two 3-corner cycles in order to get cancellations.
But it's too late here, and Insertion Finder is down... Sorry.
With the first permutation, we only need to place one corner. So, we'll probably get a lot of cancellations: 3, or 4, or even more.
With the second one, we hope 1 or 2 cancellations.
24 moves + 2x 8 for the insertions - 5 = 35 moves.
A 35 moves solution is likely.
KCuber
Veteran
My bad, i went back to my notes and i did write down B2, thanks for the tips!
Selkie
Premium Member
Well I am now in the process of learning the <=9 move LL cases, which I will follow with the 10 move cases, as well as working on my F2l-1 to L3C Heise.
I have started producing a PDF document, mainly for my own use, but happy to make it available if anyone would like to see it when it is complete that shows the visualcube image of each LL case <=10 moves and its inverse as well as showing the edge flips, edge cycles and corner cycles resultant from each alg. Even though not completely necessary I find documents I can carry and read during lunch at work on on my weekly three hour train journey to be very useful. I recall seeing a similar document with diagrams but cannot recall the source.
Having known full OLL for about 18 months and having replaced many of them I know probably ~100 OLL algs which accounts for many low move count LL cases, it also got me exploring what edge cycles my known OLLs actually do. In my fmc solves I often explore some OLLs that match the same edge flips required to see if any leave me L3C. It got me thinking, I wondered how many LL cases are required to leave the cube either in a solved state or with a 3 cycle of edges remaining. Whilst I appreciate this is probably a question for the puzzle theory forum, it sounded like something that may have been worked on by someone in FMC at some stage!
Edit: In reality I guess this is just HTM optimal ELL but was hoping to reuse a lot of the OLLs I already know.
I have started producing a PDF document, mainly for my own use, but happy to make it available if anyone would like to see it when it is complete that shows the visualcube image of each LL case <=10 moves and its inverse as well as showing the edge flips, edge cycles and corner cycles resultant from each alg. Even though not completely necessary I find documents I can carry and read during lunch at work on on my weekly three hour train journey to be very useful. I recall seeing a similar document with diagrams but cannot recall the source.
Having known full OLL for about 18 months and having replaced many of them I know probably ~100 OLL algs which accounts for many low move count LL cases, it also got me exploring what edge cycles my known OLLs actually do. In my fmc solves I often explore some OLLs that match the same edge flips required to see if any leave me L3C. It got me thinking, I wondered how many LL cases are required to leave the cube either in a solved state or with a 3 cycle of edges remaining. Whilst I appreciate this is probably a question for the puzzle theory forum, it sounded like something that may have been worked on by someone in FMC at some stage!
Edit: In reality I guess this is just HTM optimal ELL but was hoping to reuse a lot of the OLLs I already know.
Last edited:
Kirjava
Colourful
Awesome. If you list the optimal solutions for each case I will learn them all.
Selkie
Premium Member
Well I cannot take credit for the list of algs I have, since its a compilation of lists posted historically in this thread, mainly by Irontwig. Its just I wanted to create a document to visualise their application, cycles etc to help me learn them and to spot when they can be used.
I'll post the PDF here when it is ready and give you a heads up Thom
Cubenovice
Forever Slow
pdf file with 10 move algs diagrams in this post by Irontwig:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?13599-The-FMC-thread&p=526958&viewfull=1#post526958
Selkie,
I already have visualcube images of all but three of the 6 to 9 move cases (3-cycles are excluded cause commutator).
Normal and inverse of each.
Then procrastination set in....
Lemme know if you want
I also have the algs in an xls file, some of them already translated to FRU (instead of the BRU) in Teemu's / Erik's list.
I thought I had saved the visualcube links too but cannot find them right now.
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?13599-The-FMC-thread&p=526958&viewfull=1#post526958
Selkie,
I already have visualcube images of all but three of the 6 to 9 move cases (3-cycles are excluded cause commutator).
Normal and inverse of each.
Then procrastination set in....
Lemme know if you want
I also have the algs in an xls file, some of them already translated to FRU (instead of the BRU) in Teemu's / Erik's list.
I thought I had saved the visualcube links too but cannot find them right now.
Last edited:
Selkie
Premium Member
Perfect! I know I saw it somewhere, very useful starting point and thanks too to Irontwig indirectly
I certainly would. It is likely I will also recreate on green LL due to my historic blue cross for ease of my own recognition but I will certainly create a more public PDF with more conventional colour scheme. Thank goodness for &alg and &case arguments in VisualCube to make the inverses easier! Not sure the easiest method for transfer, perhaps zipped and emailed?
Thanks for the help
irontwig
Veteran
That reminds me that I kinda planned to learn those before going to Enschede, ah well. A lot of times you can even beat the optimal LL solution with Snyder+corner insertion anyway.
Cubenovice
Forever Slow
32 images make 7xx Kb in total as size is 150x150.
I'll PM you my emailadress.
Xls file will need some cleaning up though before I can send it.
I'll PM you my emailadress.
Xls file will need some cleaning up though before I can send it.
Pyjam
Premium Member
KCuber problem :
The solution:
F L F' L2 D2
L' * B' U' B2 U L2
B' L' B2 L B2
R' U' R B U' B' # U2
B'
Insertions:
* = U F U' B' U F' U' B : 3 moves cancelled
# = B' D' B U2 B' D B U2 : 5 moves cancelled
F L F' L2 D2
L' (U F U' B' U F' U' B) B' U' B2 U L2
B' L' B2 L B2
R' U' R B U' B' (B' D' B U2 B' D B U2) U2
B'
So, solution =
F L F' L2 D2
L' (U F U' B' U F' U2) B2 U L2
B' L' B2 L B2
R' U' R B U' (B2 D' B U2 B' D)
= 32 HTM
Insertion Finder is up again.
The solution:
F L F' L2 D2
L' * B' U' B2 U L2
B' L' B2 L B2
R' U' R B U' B' # U2
B'
Insertions:
* = U F U' B' U F' U' B : 3 moves cancelled
# = B' D' B U2 B' D B U2 : 5 moves cancelled
F L F' L2 D2
L' (U F U' B' U F' U' B) B' U' B2 U L2
B' L' B2 L B2
R' U' R B U' B' (B' D' B U2 B' D B U2) U2
B'
So, solution =
F L F' L2 D2
L' (U F U' B' U F' U2) B2 U L2
B' L' B2 L B2
R' U' R B U' (B2 D' B U2 B' D)
= 32 HTM
guusrs
Veteran
The <=10-move algs table helps me in about 10% - 20% of al my FMC-solves.
And it helped me for finding a 23 move solution for Per's weekly FMC #412 (still running)
Anyway, see you in Enschede!
I wil arrive on saturday morning and bring a new world-record-holder with me
spyr0th3dr4g0n
Regular
Scramble: U L2 U2 B R' D' U2 R' U F' D R U' L F' L B2 F2 L B' F R2 F2 D2 U
My Solution
Using insertion finder, it found this
Can anyone explain, or link me to a strategy or way for finding insertions? I can clearly see it being quite useful for FMC and I would like to learn more.
My Solution
F' D' F R F2 U' B R F R /xcross + F2L setup
U D R U' D' /making somewhat xxxcross
R' D' R2 D R D' R' D /fin F2L
U F R F' R' U' /OLL
F2 D2 F U F' D2 F U' F /A-perm
38HTM
U D R U' D' /making somewhat xxxcross
R' D' R2 D R D' R' D /fin F2L
U F R F' R' U' /OLL
F2 D2 F U F' D2 F U' F /A-perm
38HTM
Using insertion finder, it found this
F' D' F R F2 U' B R F R U D R U' D' R' D' R2 D R D' R' D U F2 L F' R F L' F2 R' U'
33HTM
with this insertion F' D' F R F2 U' B R F R U D R U' D' R' D' R2 D R D' R' D U F [@1] R F' R' U'
Insert at @1: F L F' R F L' F' R'
This is 5 moves less, ie saving 10% of my total
33HTM
with this insertion F' D' F R F2 U' B R F R U D R U' D' R' D' R2 D R D' R' D U F [@1] R F' R' U'
Insert at @1: F L F' R F L' F' R'
This is 5 moves less, ie saving 10% of my total
Can anyone explain, or link me to a strategy or way for finding insertions? I can clearly see it being quite useful for FMC and I would like to learn more.
Cubenovice
Forever Slow
Scroll back trough this thread, there a some good discussion son how to look for insertions.
Pyjam
Premium Member
This should be in the How-to's, Guides, etc. section of the forum.
Has anyone done a video tutorial to explain insertions?
Has anyone done a video tutorial to explain insertions?
irontwig
Veteran
But really, if you know how 8 move comms work you shouldn't really need someone telling you how you do inserttions; just sticker pieces and go move by move through your skeleton.
