[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[JasonK]

My new FMC PB! Tell me what you guys think!
Scramble from weekly comp 32
F' D2 R' U D' F' R2 L' B' R2 B2 U2 R2 D' R2 U2 F2 U B2 D

U B R F U' //FB
z2y' r' U' R U r2 U R' U' R2 B' R' B //NonMatching SB, with Sexy insert
M' U2 M U' M U' M' U' r R //2.5 Look LSE with several cancellations
alg.garron

Freakin 27 MOVES!!!! I cant believe it.
This is more than 10 moves less than my previous PB.

FMC is measured in HTM, so that's actually 31 moves

 

[PandaCuber]

FMC is measured in HTM, so that's actually 31 moves

Shhhhhhhhh! Im counting it as 27.

 

[ardi4nto]

Can anyone open insertion finder now?
I just finished my FMC attempt in Per's website and want to check whether my insertion is optimal or not.
But the server seems goes off.

here is my attempt on classic scramble
(Don't open if you want to try)

Spoiler

square: U B' L
2x2x3: D R U' B2 L
F2L-1: D B2 D' B
F2L: D' L' F' D' F
OLL: B' * L' F L' F' L2 B
Insert at *: F' R' F L2 F' R F L2
29 moves

Is the insertion efficient?

 

[mycube]

did a FMC-attempt in a facebook-competition and got a ne PB
D' L F2 B2 U F' U R' F2 B2 D B2 U B2 D F2 D2 B2 L2
L2 B2 D2 F2 D' B2 U' B2 D' B2 F2 R U' F U' B2 F2 L' D

inv: Premove: L2
L B2 – 2x2x2 [3/3]
D' F' D U F2 – F2L-2 [5/8]
B' R2 F R2 B' – F2L-1 [5/13]
D R D' – EO [3/16]

L5C:
L . B2 D' F' D U : F2 B' R2 F R2 B D R D' L2
. = D' F' D B2 D' F D B2 [8-8/16]
: = D' F' U2 F D F' U2 F [8-1/23]

Inverse Solution:
L D' F' D B2 U D' F' U2 F D F' U2 F' B' R2 F R2 B D R D' L2

Final Solution:
L2 D R' D' B' R2 F' R2 B F U2 F D' F' U2 F D U' B2 D' F D L' – 23 Moves

can't check for optimal insertions because the IF is down but 8 move cancellation for the first insertion is great!

 

[Pyjam]

Scramble : F' L R2 B2 U' D F D2 B2 D B2 F L2 U' D R2 U2 L' B2 U' B2 R' F2 B L

Premove = R'
U' F L B U' D2 L' U D' L U' B2 // (12) F2L -1 slot
R' U R B U' // (17) requires only 2-edge 2-corner swap
B' U2 R' // (20) (almost) solved

I can't find how to swap the 4 pieces. Could you help me?

 

[PandaCuber]

Whats a skeleton?

 

[Pyjam]

The previous post is a skeleton.

 

[irontwig]

Whats a skeleton?

A solution to most but not all pieces, for example everything but three corners.

 

[irontwig]

Scramble : F' L R2 B2 U' D F D2 B2 D B2 F L2 U' D R2 U2 L' B2 U' B2 R' F2 B L

Premove = R'
U' F L B U' D2 L' U D' L U' B2 // (12) F2L -1 slot
R' U R B U' // (17) requires only 2-edge 2-corner swap
B' U2 R' // (20) (almost) solved

I can't find how to swap the 4 pieces. Could you help me?

Best I could find (results in 30 move total):
U' F L B.U' D2 L' U D' L U' B2 R' U R B U' B' U2 R'
.=B2 L' B R' B' R L B2 R' B' R

 

[porkynator]

I decided to practise some Fewest Moves lately, but so far I've only done 2 real 1-hour attempts. I decided to post them here to get some advice.

Scramble A: F2 L2 D F' R' U' R2 B2 R B2 U' R2 B2 R2 D' R2 D2 L2

Spoiler

Solution 1 (32 HTM):

Spoiler

D' F //2x2x1 (2/2)
R' //2 CE pairs (1/3)
D' L U2 R U' //Expands 2x2x1 to 3x2x1 and makes another 2x2x1 (5/8)
L2 R2 F L' //F2L-1+EO (4/12)
U2 R U R' U R U2 R' U2 R U2 R' //All but 3 corners(12/24)
F2 D B' D' F2 D B D' //Normal commutator, couldn't find any insertion with cancellation(s). (8/32)
Solution: D' F R' D' L U2 R U' L2 R2 F L' U2 R U R' U R U2 R' U2 R U2 R' F2 D B' D' F2 D B D' (32 HTM)

Solution 2 (30 HTM, partial):

Spoiler

On inverse scramble
L' R' B U B' U2 //2x2x2 preserving a pair (6/6)
L' D F' D2 F D' //2x2x3 (6/12)
L2 B2 U B2 U' B //F2L-1+EO (6/18)
L2 B L B' //Makes 2 pairs 2x1x1 (4/22)
F' L2 B L2 B' L2 F L' //Pair 3-cycle (8/30)
At this point I didn't have time to find an insertion, but I knew this solution would be worse than the first one.

Heise FTW!

Scramble B: L2 B L2 B' R2 F U2 B2 D2 R2 B' D' L B2 F R' B' D' L U2 F

Spoiler

Solution 1 (36 HTM):

Spoiler

R L U' //2x2x1 (3/3)
B' D2 //3x2x1 (2/5)
L' F U' F2 //3x2x2 (4/9)
D B' //2 Pairs (2/11)
D2 B2 D' B L B L' F //All but a 2GLL (misaligned) (8/19)
D L2 D' L' D L' D' L D L D' L D L2 D' L' F' //2GLL (and align) (17/36)
Solution: R L U' B' D2 L' F U' F2 D B' D2 B2 D' B L B L' F D L2 D' L' D L' D' L D L D' L D L2 D' L' F' (36 HTM)

Solution 2 (25 HTM, partial):

Spoiler

R L U' //2x2x1 (3/3)
B' D2 //3x2x1 (2/5)
L' F U' F2 //3x2x2 (4/9)
D B' //2 Pairs (2/11)
D2 B2 D' B2 D' B' L B L' //F2L-1+EO (9/20)
D2 L' D2 L D //All but 4 corners (5/25)
I really didn't want to look for 2 insertions, it's just too boring and I'm not so good at it yet.

Solution 3 (33 HTM):

Spoiler

Premove: B'
R L U' //2x2x1 (3/3)
B' D2 //3x2x1 (2/5)
L' F U' F2 //3x2x2 (4/9)
D B' //2 Pairs (2/11)
D B' L B2 L' //F2L (5/16)
F L D L' D' F' //CLL (6/22)
R D R' D' R' L B R B' L' //ELL. Couldn't find any cancellation. (10/32)
B //Adjust (1/33)
Solution: R L U' B' D2 L' F U' F2 D B' D B' L B2 L' F L D L' D' F' R D R' D' R' L B R B' L' B (33 HTM)

This time I didn't use Heise (I usually try to start with that method), and I didn't expect the final solution to be a FreeFCE solve.

This is almost all I know about FMC techniques. 1 hour seems to pass so quickly now... I hope it will get better with practise. Suggestions?

 

[cubernya]

Spoiler

I decided to practise some Fewest Moves lately, but so far I've only done 2 real 1-hour attempts. I decided to post them here to get some advice.

Scramble A: F2 L2 D F' R' U' R2 B2 R B2 U' R2 B2 R2 D' R2 D2 L2

Spoiler

Solution 1 (32 HTM):

Spoiler

D' F //2x2x1 (2/2)
R' //2 CE pairs (1/3)
D' L U2 R U' //Expands 2x2x1 to 3x2x1 and makes another 2x2x1 (5/8)
L2 R2 F L' //F2L-1+EO (4/12)
U2 R U R' U R U2 R' U2 R U2 R' //All but 3 corners(12/24)
F2 D B' D' F2 D B D' //Normal commutator, couldn't find any insertion with cancellation(s). (8/32)
Solution: D' F R' D' L U2 R U' L2 R2 F L' U2 R U R' U R U2 R' U2 R U2 R' F2 D B' D' F2 D B D' (32 HTM)

Solution 2 (30 HTM, partial):

Spoiler

On inverse scramble
L' R' B U B' U2 //2x2x2 preserving a pair (6/6)
L' D F' D2 F D' //2x2x3 (6/12)
L2 B2 U B2 U' B //F2L-1+EO (6/18)
L2 B L B' //Makes 2 pairs 2x1x1 (4/22)
F' L2 B L2 B' L2 F L' //Pair 3-cycle (8/30)
At this point I didn't have time to find an insertion, but I knew this solution would be worse than the first one.

Heise FTW!

Scramble B: L2 B L2 B' R2 F U2 B2 D2 R2 B' D' L B2 F R' B' D' L U2 F

Spoiler

Solution 1 (36 HTM):

Spoiler

R L U' //2x2x1 (3/3)
B' D2 //3x2x1 (2/5)
L' F U' F2 //3x2x2 (4/9)
D B' //2 Pairs (2/11)
D2 B2 D' B L B L' F //All but a 2GLL (misaligned) (8/19)
D L2 D' L' D L' D' L D L D' L D L2 D' L' F' //2GLL (and align) (17/36)
Solution: R L U' B' D2 L' F U' F2 D B' D2 B2 D' B L B L' F D L2 D' L' D L' D' L D L D' L D L2 D' L' F' (36 HTM)

Solution 2 (25 HTM, partial):

Spoiler

R L U' //2x2x1 (3/3)
B' D2 //3x2x1 (2/5)
L' F U' F2 //3x2x2 (4/9)
D B' //2 Pairs (2/11)
D2 B2 D' B2 D' B' L B L' //F2L-1+EO (9/20)
D2 L' D2 L D //All but 4 corners (5/25)
I really didn't want to look for 2 insertions, it's just too boring and I'm not so good at it yet.

Solution 3 (33 HTM):

Spoiler

Premove: B'
R L U' //2x2x1 (3/3)
B' D2 //3x2x1 (2/5)
L' F U' F2 //3x2x2 (4/9)
D B' //2 Pairs (2/11)
D B' L B2 L' //F2L (5/16)
F L D L' D' F' //CLL (6/22)
R D R' D' R' L B R B' L' //ELL. Couldn't find any cancellation. (10/32)
B //Adjust (1/33)
Solution: R L U' B' D2 L' F U' F2 D B' D B' L B2 L' F L D L' D' F' R D R' D' R' L B R B' L' B (33 HTM)

This time I didn't use Heise (I usually try to start with that method), and I didn't expect the final solution to be a FreeFCE solve.

This is almost all I know about FMC techniques. 1 hour seems to pass so quickly now... I hope it will get better with practise. Suggestions?

I'll take a shot at these, but I don't feel like searching for insertions right now (and IF is down).

 

[ardi4nto]

Best I could find (results in 30 move total):
U' F L B.U' D2 L' U D' L U' B2 R' U R B U' B' U2 R'
.=B2 L' B R' B' R L B2 R' B' R

Found better insertion here, results in 29 move total:

Scramble : F' L R2 B2 U' D F D2 B2 D B2 F L2 U' D R2 U2 L' B2 U' B2 R' F2 B L

Premove = R'
U' F L B U' D2 L' U D' L [1] U' B2 // (12) F2L -1 slot
R' U R B U' // (17) requires only 2-edge 2-corner swap
B' U2 R' // (20) (almost) solved

On [1]: U - L2 F' L' F L' U2 R B' R' U2 - U' (J-perm with U conjugate)

 

[Pyjam]

Erik, Ardianto, thanks to both of you. :tu

 

[jla]

SCRAMBLE: D' L F2 B2 U F' U R' F2 B2 D B2 U B2 D F2 D2 B2 L2

y' R' L' U' R2 U2 L' //2X2X2 (6/6)
F' D2 R D //3X2X2 (4/10)
R' F R D R2 D' F R //F2L3 (8/18)
U F2 U' F2 //EP (4/22) (One move cancellation to first corner comm)
R B R' F' R B' //COMM (6/28) (One move cancellation to second corner comm)
R U' L2 U R2 U' L2 U //COMM (8/36)

What could I've done better?

 

[Pyjam]

L D R2 F' D2 L2 B D' F R' B2 D B2 D' R2 L2 B2 L2 U' D2 F2

I was starting a ZZ solve :
U B' R' B' U2 B...
R2...

I let you play.

 

[Zaterlord]

How do you use insertions?

 

[Pyjam]

What could I've done better?

After U F2 U' F, use 2 insertions to cycle the corners.

How do you use insertions?

You ask me?

 

[jla]

After U F2 U' F, use 2 insertions to cycle the corners.

I did use two insertions.

y' R' L' U' R2 U2 L' F' D2 R D R' F R D R2 D' F R U F2 U' F F R B R' F' R B' R' R2 U' L2 U R2 U' L2 U

They were just hidden with the cancellations.

 

[Selkie]

PB 33 HTM

.........

Well all my FMC to date has been pseudo CFOP so decided to try the Mustcube weekly no 411 using more advanced techniques. I have to confess I did not stick to a 1 hour time limit as I wanted to try and utilise as many strategies as I had read about.

Any critique would be greatly appreciated .. as well as a better insertion!

Note Active Comp in the spoiler:-

Spoiler

Scramble : B' D' R' L2 F2 L2 R' F2 L R' B U L B2 R' F2 L2 U L' D2 F2 L2 R D2 B F2 L F2 L' U'
On inverted scramble:-
U L' R' B' L2 B2 //2x2x2 - Added the R' when I could not find a good continuation on the inverse or when switched to normal scramble
R' F U F' U F2 U' R' //2x2x3 - Had gone with R' F U F' U F2 R' but added the U' to orient two bad edges

Switch to normal

Premoves: R U F2 U F U' F' R B2 L2 B R L U'

F U' F U' R U R' // F2L-1 plus 2x2x1
F L' U L U' // Leaves 3 corners
U B' U F2 U' B U F2 U2 // Did look for inserts but ended up confusing myself with orientation and this did cancel 2 moves

Final solution:
F U' F U' R U R' F L' U L B' U F2 U' B U F2 U2 R U F2 U F U' F' R B2 L2 B R L U' = 33 HTM

 

[mDiPalma]

hey, i did a couple zz-FMCs today and yesterday (34, 28, and 31 htm), and i noticed that it is actually a fairly braindead yet effective method to go about it.

Bruce in the probability thread implied through calculations that an efficient (likely 5-6 moves) color neutral eoline (or preferably xeoline) is nearly always possible. for example, in my three solves today, ive been able to find 5-6 moves CN eoline+pair in around 15-20 minutes through little more than brute force and a few fancy tricks.

then, you can permute the corners while solving a side block, reducing the cube to 13 pieces and 2 gen [R,U] status in likely <10-11 moves. this can be brute forced surprisingly quickly as well.

finally, you can solve the rest of the cube with (once again) brute force by trying a whole bunch of (seemingly inefficient) blockbuilding strategies until you get a corner orientation and edge permutation skip at the end. to be honest, i actually find this step to be the most fun, but it takes like 30 minutes.

i don't know. i'm gonna post a question in the probability thread, but if you guys happen to know the answer, let me know. what is the distribution for the minimum amount of 2-generator [RU] moves it can take to solve a cube that CAN be solved 2-generator, without rotations? like if you perform an antisune on your cube, then the fewest moves it would take to be solved would be 7, and this state would be tallied in the 7 column.

but i guess the real reason why i posted in this thread was to ask for constructive criticism. do you think that zz has decent FMC potential, even if it relies heavily on brute force or even luck?

or what about the concept of building a 2x2x3 block and permuting the remaining corners and orienting the remaining edges, to reduce the cube to 2 gen status in FMC?