[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[guusrs]

I have no doubt, stupid cheating.

Agree, no doubt, especially when you have a look at his (or her) 18-move 10-min linear solve!

BTW: congratz with your beautiful 22move solution!

 

[Attila]

Thanks, Guus,
This premove-leave not a practised trick, just a random possibility. I was so lucky again.

 

[Rpotts]

Petrus

Heise

Probably the best rigid FMC methods to start out with, Petrus first.

For FMC blockbuild an F2L-1 slot then try to reduce the cube to 3 or 5 corners left (skeleton), and insert commutators into the skeleton to solve the remaining corners. How you should solve the blockbuilding part is entirely up to you, and varies from scramble to scramble. Some excellent FMC solutions start with a short solution to all 8 corners, then hax in the rest of the edges and insert short edge comms when available, i.e. 6 move HTM R L' U2 R' L F2 versus traditional 8 move STM comms which will cost you in FMC, since the common metric is HTM.

best FMC site

 

[nickvu2]

I'm just getting into FMC myself, but I'm using edge control and corner commutators for LL.

I don't know how to go about inserting the commutators into the skeleton though. It seems like if you track the LL corners throughout the solve, you'd have to determine a different com every step of the way and then find the one with the most cancellations. That can't be right; it sounds way too time consuming...and boring quite frankly, lol. How do you guys do it?

 

[Pyjam]

You can get low moves count with ZZ too. 33-38 moves is common.

Scramble : F' D' R2 B2 D L' R U2 L2 R B F L2 D R2 F' U2 F L' D2 F

L' U L B' R L' D (7) : All egdes oriented + DF + DB
R2 L U2 R U L2 (+6 = 13) : Slot BL
R' U2 R U' R2 U' R' (+7 = 20) : Slot FR
U2 R' U L (+4 = 24) : Slot FL
U' R U' R' U' R U R' U R U (+11 = 35) : Slot BR + AntiSune

 

[Cubenovice]

It seems like if you track the LL corners throughout the solve, you'd have to determine a different com every step of the way and then find the one with the most cancellations. That can't be right; it sounds way too time consuming...and boring quite frankly, lol. How do you guys do it?

Well.... that is exactly how we do it...
But you only look for the 8 move commutators and have a quick glance if first or last move will cancel something.
If they do you write it down and continue lookeing for something better.
(very first 8 mover I also write down in case I cannot find one that cancels)

I have no clue how to do a decent fewest move solve but I am actually quite interested even though it's not held at Canadian competitions. To start, I would like to learn a fixed method that would have a low move count. So could anybody recommend me a fixed method for let's say 1 minute linear FMC? I only want to learn a fixed method so I can get the basics first and perhaps practice techniques such as block building. Furthermore, what would progression be like? I know that it is very useful to know as many algorithms as possible and of course commutator knowledge, but is there any other things I could do as well?

What Rpotts said
Plus / go through the solutions in the weekly formum competition and the fmc.mustcube site

Thanks a lot for your reply. As for Petrus, I don't think I should stick with OLL/PLL for LL because they require a lot of moves. Is there anything other than those that is better for LL? I'm thinking of learning and practicing Petrus and Heise methods to get a deeper understanding of block building. I will also decide to learn all commutators and I will go through all 378 cases to make sure I understand them. Perhaps I will do the same with edges. After all that, I think I'll get into FMC a bit more seriously.

Anything better than OLL / PLL: what Rpotts said
For FMC you do not (must not) strictly follow methods. Instead you combine / improvise to make the best of the solution.
For instance when using “Petrus” or “Heise”
Both start out with Blockbuilding, then orient edges.
Petrus: EO after 2x2x3 block
Heise: EO after (or during) F2L- 1 slot
Both ways of EO are good to explore during a solve but you don’t have to stick to the typical finish of the method
For the end game Heise provides you with some good tactics for leaving 3 or 5 (easier to get to) corners.

So in short:
Blockbuild up to F2L-1
Then orient/permute as much as you can in as few moves as you can.
Then solve the remaining edges or corners via 1 or 2 commutators, preferably inserted into an earlier part of the solution.

Also read this:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?1566-Fewest-Moves-Tips-and-Techniques

I will also decide to learn all commutators and I will go through all 378 cases to make sure I understand them.

In 99.x% of the FMC solves the std 8 move corners commutators will be all you need.
It is very rare to have a solution into which you cannot insert an 8 move corner cycle. I don’t think you ever need more than an A9.
An A9 is a std 8 mover with 1 set up move (would be 10 moves) but the set up move (or undoing of it) cancels one moves with the 8 mover = total of 9 moves

Learning / understanding all cases is good if you want to go BH on BLD

 

[Lucas Garron]

Scrambler 1 from Berkeley Winter: http://alg.garron.us/?alg=&ini=F2_D..._D&name=FMC,_Berkeley_Winter_2012,_Scramble_1

I found this 12-move start:
L' U' L' U' L F' L2
U2 R B' U' B2
It solves a 2x2x3 block and a 2x2x1 block on the right, and even ends up with a remaining corner and edge paired. With an R' premove, that makes 13 moves up to last slot (with a chance at last-move cancellation).

I found this very quickly, and spent almost the entire hour trying to get under 30. Unfortunately, the position has a lot of flipped edges, and nothing worked: R' premove, R premove, NISS, various LS and LL tricks (I guess I didn't try too many insertions, but still)...

In the end, I found a PLL skip for a total of 33 moves: L'U'L'U'LF'L2U2RB'U'B2RUBU'B2'FRBR'F'R'UR'U2RUR'UR2'U2R2'
But that wasn't really satisfying, and only ended up getting third place for the day.

Anyone want to see if you can complete this scramble better than I did?

 

[Pyjam]

Hi Lucas,

This is the best I could find :
F' U' F R U R' U F' U F U' R2
24 and 3 corners remaining.

Unfortunately, the best insertion I found is (L' B' L F2 L' B L F2) before the last R2.

At least, 32 is still better than 33.

 

[cuber952]

I'm trying to get better at FMC. I usually get low 40's. Can anyone tell me some things I could have done better in this solution?

U2 F2 B R F' D R F2 U R U2 D2 L2 U2 B2 R L D2 R D2

2x2 Block: R2 U' F D' R B R
2x2x3 BLock: L F' L' F2 L2 F2
F2L #3 + Comm: D' L2 R' D L D' R D L D' L' D'
F2L #4: L' D L' D'
LL: d L' d2 L d2 L d2 L' d

38 Moves

 

[cubernya]

Any tips for searching for insertions (3C)? I'm about to start my weekly FMC, and want to try to find insertions this time

 

[Rpotts]

put post it notes or stickers on the cylcing pieces marked 1, 2, 3 so you can more easily spot the 8 move comms.

 

[cubernya]

put post it notes or stickers on the cylcing pieces marked 1, 2, 3 so you can more easily spot the 8 move comms.

Thanks! Hopefully I can cancel a move or two off the solution

 

[kinch2002]

Every time I read this thread I realise that the video tutorial I painstakingly planned and wrote out would be really useful. Unfortunately my camera died and I can't really record easily with my phone camera so it's on hold for now Sorry guys

 

[Jaycee]

http://fmc.mustcube.net/

The no time limit scramble : F R' F B D' B' U' F2 D2 U2 F' U' D L R' B2 F U2 L' R' D U' L' U' L2 U' R' L F' D'

I got really lucky with my block, and the fact that everything fell into place after my F2L-1, and the fact that I learned optimal 2-twists last week. This isn't even my PB but it's my first FMC solve that actually LOOKS like an FMC solve.

Solution : 36 moves, 3 off of PB

Spoiler

Solution : F D2 F2 R2 L D' B D' L D' L2 D' F2 D L' B2 L D' F2 D L' B L' D2 B U2 B' D2 B U2 B D L2 D' L B'

F D2 F2 R2 // 2x2x2
L D' B D2 // 2x2x3
D L D' L . B' L' B // F2L-1
B : D L2 D' L B' // Leave 3 corners and a twist

Insert at dot : L D' F2 D L' B2 L D' F2 D L' B2 (2 moves cancel)
Insert at colon : B2 D2 B U2 B' D2 B U2 B (3 moves cancel [B, B, B2])

So what do you think? Do I have at least some potential? I know I got really lucky I don't plan on becoming serious for FMC for a while, but it's still fun every now and then.

 

[cubernya]

Figured I should post this here as well. WARNING: CURRENT COMPETITION IN SPOILERS

Spoiler

Also, my FMC notes/explaination (the result itself is on the site; red was not written at first)

Spoiler

z
U2 L' F' B' L D R B' R2 B' D2 B2 // F2L-1 (12/12)
y' R U R' U // Leaves 3 corners (4/16)
F2 L' B' L F2 L' B L // L3C commutator (8/24)
RYB -> OYG -> WGO // Commutator cycle (for searching for insertions)


R2 F2 L B2 R' F2 L D2 R' B2 U B D' B' F R' F2 U R2 U' scramble

Rotationless:
L2 D' F' B' D R U B' U2 B' R2 B2 // F2L -1 (12/12)
F L F' L // Leaves 3 corners (4/16)
D2 B' U' B D2 B' U B // L3C commutator (8/24)

~45 min solution, and very nice I must say (it's my PB)
No insertions for the L3C though If you can find any, please show it! (if it cancels moves)

Copied strait from thread. If you have any suggestions, please post.

 

[Cubenovice]

http://fmc.mustcube.net/

The no time limit scramble : F R' F B D' B' U' F2 D2 U2 F' U' D L R' B2 F U2 L' R' D U' L' U' L2 U' R' L F' D'

I got really lucky with my block, and the fact that everything fell into place after my F2L-1, and the fact that I learned optimal 2-twists last week. This isn't even my PB but it's my first FMC solve that actually LOOKS like an FMC solve.

Solution : 36 moves, 3 off of PB

Solution : F D2 F2 R2 L D' B D' L D' L2 D' F2 D L' B2 L D' F2 D L' B L' D2 B U2 B' D2 B U2 B D L2 D' L B'

F D2 F2 R2 // 2x2x2
L D' B D2 // 2x2x3
D L D' L . B' L' B // F2L-1
B : D L2 D' L B' // Leave 3 corners and a twist

Insert at dot : L D' F2 D L' B2 L D' F2 D L' B2 (2 moves cancel)
Insert at colon : B2 D2 B U2 B' D2 B U2 B (3 moves cancel [B, B, B2])

So what do you think? Do I have at least some potential? I know I got really lucky I don't plan on becoming serious for FMC for a while, but it's still fun every now and then.

I think that learning the 2-twist did your solution no good
You inserted a two-twist and a corner cycle= 20 moves while you could just have inserted two 3-cycles= 16 moves.

Typical case of:
"When you got a new hammer everything looks like a nail"


Don't feel like doing insertions (as I'm on a very bad FMC week...) but here's an alterrnative ending with just two 3-cycles:
B : D L2 D' L B' // Leave 3 corners and a twist
B L F L' B2 L F' L' B2 B' - 3-cycle solves corner and moves the twist
B' R B' L2 B R' B' L2 B2 - A-perm

32 HTM
probably better with insertions

 

[Pyjam]

http://fmc.mustcube.net/

The no time limit scramble : F R' F B D' B' U' F2 D2 U2 F' U' D L R' B2 F U2 L' R' D U' L' U' L2 U' R' L F' D'

Cubenovice is right.

My own solution was done using ZZ. I got it in 5-10 minutes. It's so simple that I thought everybody will find the same…

At first, I got 24 and 3 corners to rotate (not permute). I needed two permutations, but I got 6 cancellations when I inserted the first one. So I wrote it directly.

The complete solution :

Spoiler

U R F U D' R' D : (7) Edge orientation + DF+DB
R2 U L2 : (10) 2x2 on left
R2 U2 R U' R' : (15) 2x2 on right
(1) U' L' U' L U' L' : (21) 2x2x3 on left
U R' U : (24) all but 3 corners to rotate
= 24 + 3C

@ (1) : (R' U' L' U R U' L U) : +2 (6 moves cancelled)

So, we have :
U R F U D' R' D
R2 U L2
R2 U2 R U' (R2 U' L' U R U2) (2) L U' L' U R' U
= 26 + 3C

@ (2) : (U' R2 U L2 U' R2 U L2) : +6 (2 moves cancelled)

 

[Pyjam]

~45 min solution, and very nice I must say (it's my PB)

Congrats. Nicely done and very clever.

 

[TheChriskage]

How does switching to inverse in the middle of a solve work?
I get how you can do the inverse scramble, and then just inverse your solution, but not how you can switch in the middle.

 

[Pyjam]

Add your partial solution at the end of the scramble, then reverse the whole. It adds the reversal the solution as premove for the reverse scramble. When you've completed your solution, add the reversal of the second part after the end of the first part of the solution.