[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[Cubenovice]

Congartulations Tim, Guus, Tomoaki and Agnar!

Tim - NAR
Guus - Dutch nationals winner
Tomoaki and Agnar for both finding the same 20 HTM solution to fmc.mustcube.net 376

Edit: fmc.mustcube.net 376

Scramble: D R' L F' B2 L2 B D' U B2 L F' D R2 F D2 B U' R2 L' F R D2 B F2 U' L2 B' U L
Solution Tomoaki and Agnar: D B' U F' L B2 D' R2 U' L' D2 L U D L' D L D' L' R' 20 HTM (6 move cancel insertion)

This is only 2 moves above optimal (CE: L' U2 R U' L2 U L' D2 U' R' F' U' B D F' R2 F2 R' (18f*) )

And another thing;

How difficult would it be to create a piece of software that could check skeletons for all possible insertions?
I think this could generate some very interesting data.
- average cancellations for the best insertions
- for 5 cycles: is it needed to check all insertions for the resulting possibilities of "insertion into the insertion"
- inserting cycles vs inserting a pure corner twist
- just checking some existing solves to see if you missed anything- get better at comms this way

 

[guusrs]

Woww, exciting weekend!
Congratz Tim for that NAR and splendid double corner insertion
Congratz Tomoaki & Agnar for that 20 move solve. Really smart solve. I feel ashamed with my 28 move solve. I did only spend 30 minutes on it this time

Hello Agnar, who are you? Where are you from?

I enjoyed dutch nationals yesterday. A really hard FMC scramble:

B D2 B R U F L U' B L' B U2 R2 D' R2 D B2 R2 L2 D' B2

I will post my 31 move solution later this week.

Gus

 

[TMOY]

LolFMC at Magic Open this weekend. I won with 32, second best got 45

Scramble: U' R2 D2 U' L2 R2 B2 D' L2 F U2 L' B2 D R D' B U2 R' F

After about half an hour I found this, which solves the cube up to a 3-cycle of edges:

y D2 Lw' D Lw' y L2 Uw2 L2 Uw' Lw2 Uw' z' y D' L' E2 L y' U' L E' L' U2 F2 U D (24 HTM)

So I tried to find a good insertion for that 3-cycle, and couldn't find better than inserting it in the middle of the 5th move, replacing the L2 with:

L U' M U2 M' U' L (9 HTM)

which gives a total of 24 + 9 - 1 = 32 HTM. Any ideas of a better insertion ?

 

[irontwig]

B D2 B R U F L U' B L' B U2 R2 D' R2 D B2 R2 L2 D' B2

My lucky-ish 29 move solution:

Spoiler

R B' D2 B' U2 L D2 R D' R F2 R D' R2 D R B' D B2 D' F' D B' D' F R D R F (29)

R B' D2 B' U2 L [2x2x2+2 pairs]
D2 R D' R F2 [Pseudo 2x2x3+2 pairs]
R D' R2 D R B' D B.D' R D R F [Leaving three corners (That was easy!)]

Insert at dot: B D' F' D B' D' F D (Three moves cancel)

 

[Cubenovice]

Any ideas of a better insertion ?

Hi François, congratulations on your win!
I would love to go through your solution but all the rotations, double layer turns and slice moves freak me out.
I think I’ll go through it tonight; first thing will be rewriting your solution so I can walk through it without having to worry about the orientation of the cube
Edit: I give up, I keep screwing up notation in trying to rewrite

For additional cycles for edge insertions you may want to check out these edge cycles originally posted by Guus

U2 L2 F L2 U2 R2 B R2
B' R B' M B' R' B' M'
B' R B' M2 B' R' B M2
B2 R B2 M B2 R' B2 M'
B2 R B2 M2 B2 R' B2 M'

And Bruce’s remark from further down the thread:
M U2 M' U2 translated into face turns is:
L' R B2 L R' U2 But this can be replaced by any of these other 3 algs:
R B2 L R' U2 L'
L' B2 L R' U2 R
B2 L R' U2 L' R

However I would not be surprised if you know all of these (and some more)

 

[kinch2002]

Congrats Tim! 4 corner insertions ftw. In response to what Brest said, I think fmc is only event that exactly the same whether I'm in comp or at home. Imo a couple of events are easier in comp and obviously most are harder but fmc stays the same

 

[Sebastien]

Very nice insertion Tim and congratz on your NAR!

 

[guusrs]

My lucky-ish 29 move solution:

Spoiler

R B' D2 B' U2 L D2 R D' R F2 R D' R2 D R B' D B2 D' F' D B' D' F R D R F (29)

R B' D2 B' U2 L [2x2x2+2 pairs]
D2 R D' R F2 [Pseudo 2x2x3+2 pairs]
R D' R2 D R B' D B.D' R D R F [Leaving three corners (That was easy!)]

Insert at dot: B D' F' D B' D' F D (Three moves cancel)

Very well done!

 

[Julian]

2nd non-linear FMC

(premove L') B R2 F' L2 F2 U2 B D2 F2 U2 L2 D' U2 B R F U F R2 F D2

D U L' R2 B // 2x2x2
L F' L2 // 2x2x3
U F' U' F' L' . U' L2 R' F2 L' // finish F2L
R2 U R' B' R B U' B' R' B U2 // leave 3 corners

F' D F U2 F' D' F U2 insert at . cancelling 1 move

Final solution:
D U L' R2 B L F' L2 U F' U' F' L' F' D F U2 F' D' F U L2 R' F2 L' R2 U R' B' R B U' B' R' B U2 L'
37 moves in 37 minutes

 

[kinch2002]

R2 F2 L R2 F2 L2 D L' B2 U' B' R2 U2 B2 F L2 F L' D2 F D2 B' D2 B2 D'

Premoves: F B2
F2L: F' D' R2 L' U L F U F U F
Essentially a 13 move F2L. Can't find a good finish (only tried for about 5 minutes though). Anyone?

 

[Brest]

R2 F2 L R2 F2 L2 D L' B2 U' B' R2 U2 B2 F L2 F L' D2 F D2 B' D2 B2 D'

Premoves: F B2
F2L: F' D' R2 L' U L F U F U F
Essentially a 13 move F2L. Can't find a good finish (only tried for about 5 minutes though). Anyone?

F' L' U L F R (U' R' R U2) R' U' R U' R'
I thought I was onto something but 2twist )=
Removing cancellations:
F' D' R2 L' U L F U F U L' U L F R U R' U' R U' R' F B2 (23)
I'm sure there is something better.

 

[Cubenovice]

R2 F2 L R2 F2 L2 D L' B2 U' B' R2 U2 B2 F L2 F L' D2 F D2 B' D2 B2 D'

Premoves: F B2
F2L: F' D' R2 L' U L F U F U F
Essentially a 13 move F2L. Can't find a good finish (only tried for about 5 minutes though). Anyone?

Another 2 twist:
Change finish of F2L:
F' D' R2 L' U L F U F2 U' F' U2 F
R' F' U' F (U R
R' U' ) R U' R' U2 R U2

Done in alg garron as I do not have a cube at hand
I think your best bet is in tinkering with the final F2L slot and check the alternative endings

 

[Attila]

R2 F2 L R2 F2 L2 D L' B2 U' B' R2 U2 B2 F L2 F L' D2 F D2 B' D2 B2 D'

Premoves: F B2
F2L: F' D' R2 L' U L F U F U F
Essentially a 13 move F2L. Can't find a good finish (only tried for about 5 minutes though). Anyone?

I like your scrambles
I found a hybrid solution, i used your premoves and the first two moves:
F’D’
continuation with Guimond corners first method:
B’R’B
R2LFRL’U’FRL’U’ more 4 edges, oriented M slice,
B2L’B2R’L2U2 corners completion.

 

[Cubenovice]

I like your scrambles
I found a hybrid solution, i used your premoves and the first two moves:
F’D’
continuation with Guimond corners first method:
B’R’B
R2LFRL’U’FRL’U’ more 4 edges, oriented M slice,
B2L’B2R’L2U2 corners completion.

Nice comeback!
Looking forward to seeing you again in the weekly comp!

 

[irontwig]

R2 F2 L R2 F2 L2 D L' B2 U' B' R2 U2 B2 F L2 F L' D2 F D2 B' D2 B2 D'

Premoves: F B2
F2L: F' D' R2 L' U L F U F U F
Essentially a 13 move F2L. Can't find a good finish (only tried for about 5 minutes though). Anyone?

Common OLL (I think) leaves three edges in 22: U2 F U F' U F U' R U' R' B2

 

[okayama]

R2 F2 L R2 F2 L2 D L' B2 U' B' R2 U2 B2 F L2 F L' D2 F D2 B' D2 B2 D'

Premoves: F B2
F2L: F' D' R2 L' U L F U F U F
Essentially a 13 move F2L. Can't find a good finish (only tried for about 5 minutes though). Anyone?

Quick skeleton:

Pre-scramble: F' B2

2x2x3 block: F' D' R2 (your start)
c/e pair: U2
c/e pair: F
Finish F2L: U' F R' F2 R
All but 3 corners: U' L F' L' F U F U' F'
Correction: F' B2

12 moves F2L (including premoves) + standard OLL.

 

[kinch2002]

Thanks for all the response. Just to let you know, I don't always get crazy nice scrambles. This was just posted on #Rubik by Yttrium so I thought I'd try it. That 20 mover I got a while back was also posted on #Rubik (by Kirjava iirc).

 

[Cubenovice]

I would like to dedicate this 26 mover to Irontwig who once posted the corner flip T-perm:
(R2 [R F R', u2]) F'

I used it to solve 2E3C incl a twisted corner in just 14 moves

Spoiler alert: This is Holiday comp FMC scramble 1
scramble L B U2 R' F2 U F' U' F' L R F L' D' U L B' F' L2 F' L' U' B2 L2 R2

Spoiler

premove B2
U' B2 U2 - square
B'. L'- 2x2x3
at . insert F for better continuation
U2 F' U F U' - leaves edge swap and 3 corners of which one is twisted*
U' - set up move (cancels)
D' L D' B2 U R' U' B2 D2 L' - corner twist T-perm
U - undo set up leaves 3 corners
U' L D L' U L D' L'- 3-cycle cancels 5 moves D2 L' U U' L D = D'
B2 - undo premove

final solution: U' B2 U2 B' F L' U2 F' U F U2 D' L D' B2 U R' U' B2 D' L' U L D' L'B2 = 26 HTM

* in this position the corner twist T-perm will leave 2 twisted corners

I like to dedicate this 26 mover to Sune:

Spoiler alert: This is Holiday comp FMC scramble 2
scramble R2 F2 L R2 F2 L2 D L' B2 U' B' R2 U2 B2 F L2 F L' D2 F D2 B' D2 B2 D'

Spoiler

Premoves F’ B2
F’ D’ R2
U2 F U2 F2 U F – F2L-1
L’ U2 L of U L’ U L – F2L

Premoves F B2
F’ D’ R2
L’ U L F U F U F – F2L
Switch to inverse with premoves F’ U’ F’ U’ F’ L’ U’ L
F’ B2 – F2L
B’ U’ R’ U R B – good ole f sexy move f’
F’ U2 F U F’ U F U2 – good ole Sune

Final sol
F' D' R2 L' U L F U F U F - U2 F' U' F U' F' U2 F B' R' U' R U B' F

I had never expected that a scramble switch at F2L stage could be this usefull

 

[CuberMan]

I found a 34 moves solution, but I think many people can get better than me
scramble: L B U2 R' F2 U F' U' F' L R F L' D' U L B' F' L2 F' L' U' B2 L2 R2
Spoiler alert: This is Holiday comp FMC scramble 1

Spoiler

solution: U’ F2 D2 B’ F R’ F D’ R2 z2 U’ F’ U F y R’ U’ R2 U R’ U R U2 R’ F2 L D2 F’ U F D2 F’ U’ F L’ F2 (34)
explanation:
2x2x2 block: U’ F2 D2 B’ (4)
Cross + 2 pair F2L: F R’ F D’ R2 (5)
F2L #3: z2 U’ F’ U F (4)
F2L #4: y R’ U’ R (3)
Leave 3 corners: R U R’ U R U2 R’ (6)
Last 3 corners: F2 L D2 F’ U F D2 F’ U’ F L’ F2 (12)
cancel 1 move

I found 9 moves 2x2x3 block, anyone can continue it?
scramble: L' R B' R B F2 D' B' F2 L U' R2 D B F D2 L R2 D' R2 F' D' U' L F2
Spoiler alert: This is Holiday comp FMC scramble 3

Spoiler

2x2x2 block: U R F’ U D2 L2 (6)
2x2x3 block: R F R2 (3)

p.s: I'm still new to FMC, still using normal CFOP but I know blockbuilding and turbo algorithms (BLD corner method).

 

[Cubenovice]

I found a 34 moves solution, but I think many people can get better than me
scramble: L B U2 R' F2 U F' U' F' L R F L' D' U L B' F' L2 F' L' U' B2 L2 R2
Spoiler alert: This is Holiday comp FMC scramble 1

p.s: I'm still new to FMC, still using normal CFOP but I know blockbuilding and turbo algorithms (BLD corner method).

Good work for a newbie
An FMC solve can (almost) always be improved, for scramble 1 and 2 check out both my 26 HTM solutions in the previous page
Scramble 3 was my typical DNF...

In you 1st solution there are two ways to improve your result without making large changes to your solution:
1: you can save two moves in solving the last three corners: R B2 D' L' D R2 D' L D R2 B2 R' - always look for a set up move that cancels
EDIT: forgot about your cube rotations, your last move is actually B'
you can cancel one move with B' U L' F' L B2 L' F L B2 U' B

2: if you have time left you should insert the corner cycle into an earlier part of your solution.
Exept for some very rare cases you will always find some std 8 move cycles and you can expect to cancel about 2 additional moves.
You had 3 corners left after 22 moves so with an insertion these corners you may get to 28 HTM.

EDIT: your solution without cube rotations:
2x2x2 block: U’ F2 D2 B’ (4)
Cross + 2 pair F2L: F R’ F D’ R2 (5)
F2L #3: D' F' D F + (4)
F2L #4: B' D' B (3)
Leave 3 corners: B D B’ D B D2 B’ (6)

at + insert F U2 F' D' F U2 F' D to cancel 1 move for a total of 29 HTM