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[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

Hi!

I'm quite a noob in FMC but take a look at this solve!

I'm quite proud of it XD

Scramble: L B' D' U2 F' L R' B F U B F2 R U F L' R2 U B2 F L B2 F R2 B

Solve:
x2
U' F' U2 L
x B' R2 D U2 (B L' F' L B' L2 F L' F' L2) F2 U2 D R
x2 L F' L' F (U' R U' L2 U R' U' L2)

34 HTM

Explanation:

x2
U' F' U2 L (first block)
x B' R2 D U2 (B L' F' L B' L2 F L' F' L2 [F]) F U2 D R (some blocks including a LL block)
x2 L F' L' F (U' R U' L2 U R' U' L2 [U2]) [U2] (here I solve all but a 3-cycle of corners and a couple edges-corners)

first insertion is a J perm (11 - 1 move cancelled) and second insertion is an A perm (9 - 2 moves canceled)

let me know if you like it... :D

Marco.
 
Nice, but often just corner insertions are better:

D' B' D2 L D' R2 F B2 U B2 F R D L D' R D' L2 D' R U' R' D2 R U R2 D' L D2 F2 (30)

D' B' D2 L D' R2 F B2 U B2 F R D [Your Pseudo-F2L-1]
L D2.L' D2 F2 [Leaving five corners]

.=D R D' L2:D R' D' L2
:=D2 R U' R' D2 R U R'
 
yeah it's great! I'm searching threads or sites who teches advaced FMC tecniques... can you suggest me some of them? I can't understand for example how can i get advantages from a premove... and maybe it could be useful to learn some specific algs... I want to know more about FMC... in Italy nobody does it and the NR is 34...

PS I've seen some of your posts... congrats for your results!
 
You can check out the "The basic 8 move corner three-cycles" section of Joël's commutator tutotial:
http://solvethecube.110mb.com/commutators.html

Pre-moves are not really necessary, they just make things easier to see, for example if you do F2 before the scramble and then do your first 13 moves then you'll get a normal F2L-1.

Edit: Speaking of which, I could've just continued D2 L D L' D2 L D2 L'.D' F2, which leaves three corners and then inserted L' D R D' L D R' D' at the dot to cancel two moves and get a 29 move total, perhaps you could look for an even better insertion after reading the tutorial as I didn't look through the entire solution. FMC makes you feel like such a dumbass at times ("Gah, why didn't I see that!?").
 
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Another great resource on commutators is Byu's thread " BH tutorial" in the BLD sub-forum.
For general FCM tactics AVG made a nice thread too (stickied in cube therory sub-forum)

Both these threads have helped me a great deal.

EDIT:
FMC makes me feel like a dumbass Alot...
 
("Gah said:
lol yeah it often happens XD... I know commutators... I use freestyle for BLD from some monthes... In my solve there where no places to put a 8 move commutator with those corners... so the final A perm was the best insertion I think... because it canceled 2 moves too... Is my 11st FM solve... I have to look better at all the possibilities...
Click to expand...
 
this was my solve in fact...

Solve:
x2
U' F' U2 L
x B' R2 D U2 (B L' F' L B' L2 F L' F' L2) F2 U2 D R
x2 L F' L' F (U' R U' L2 U R' U' L2)
 
Another thing to consider: always write your solutions without cube rotations.
This makes it easier to spot cancellations.

Starting from the WCA scramble orientation: for a green face turn always write F, Back is B, Red is Right, etc.

This takes very little time to get used to and enables you to twist and turn your cube as much as you like during the course of your solve.
 
On the hardest scramble: F U' F2 D' B U R' F' L D' R' U' L U B' D2 R' F U2 D2

[Brief History] Full solutions for the scramble by human beings in this thread:
  1. 35 HTM by Conrad (maybe first try, in 1-hour?)
  2. 34 HTM by me (in 1-hour) and shorten Conrad's solution to 32 HTM (after 1-hour)
  3. Another 32 HTM solution by me (after 1-hour)
  4. 31 HTM by Guus (in 1-hour)

Then 30 HTM solution by me:
Solution: F' R D2 R2 B' D B U F' U' B' D2 U' L U' R B' L' B R' B' L R B R' U2 B R' U R

NISS solve.

(Normal)

Two c/e pairs: F' R D2
2x2x1 block: R2 B'
2x2x2 block: U D F' D2
2x2x3 block: U2 L

(Inverse)
Pre-scramble: U L' U2 D2 F D' U' B R2 D2 R' F

Orient edges: R' U' R
F2L minus 1 slot: B' U2
All but 5 corners: R B' R' B
All but 3 corners: B' L' B R B' L B R'
Correction: U L' U2 D2 * F D' U' B R2 D2 R' F

Insert at *: U' B U F U' B' U F'

Keep trying! :D
 
I was wondering if it ever has been investigated / published what is the most optimal (in terms of average movecount) way of EO?

After 2x2x3 as in Petrus
After F2L-1 slot as in Heise: (should perhaps be split out; some EO can already be included in placing the blocks)
At the start of the solve as in ZZ: two versions
- EO-Line
- EO only as as the line could perhaps be in the way of optimal block building
ZB or VH Edge control during placement of F2L pairs

I have found some interesting threads about movecounts (listed below) but nothing specifically about the EO step in itself.
And yes, I do understand that even for FMC an average movecount doesn't tell you anything about one specific solve...

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?19814-zz-vs.-zbf2l

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...ross-and-3x2x2-move-count&p=185213#post185213
 
Cubenovice said:
I was wondering if it ever has been investigated / published what is the most optimal (in terms of average movecount) way of EO?

After 2x2x3 as in Petrus
After F2L-1 slot as in Heise: (should perhaps be split out; some EO can already be included in placing the blocks)
At the start of the solve as in ZZ: two versions
- EO-Line
- EO only as as the line could perhaps be in the way of optimal block building
ZB or VH Edge control during placement of F2L pairs
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how meaningful such comparisons are, as the number of edges remaining to be oriented vary according to which method step you using, not to mention that the method step may also be accomplishing other things besides EO. But I can provide some of the numbers. (Averages rounded to fourth place after the decimal point.)

Beginning of solve (<U,D,L,R,F2,B2>-style edge orientation), fixed cube orientation (not color neutral):
Average: 4.6089 Worst case: 7

Petrus step 3:
Average: 4.9531 Worst case: 8

ZBF2L:
Average: 8.0800 Worst case: 11
 
Hi Bruce, thank you for your feedback.
Too bad there is no info on Heise as I was really wondering how having to work with one open slot would compare to the larger freedom in Petrus.


And now for something competely different:
I put three commutators into a commutator ;)

fmc.mustcube.net Round: 328 sorted by htm
Scramble: D2 F' B2 R2 F L U' D B2 L R D U2 B R2 D' F D2 R' L D R U2 F2 R2 L' D2 L2 F U2

@ R' L2 B2 R' B' L2 leaves 5 edges and 4 corners
I just had to try this with comm.
insertion extravaganza:
At @ insert D § R' U' # R D' R' U R to cancel two moves R-R'
At § insert U2 R D R' U2 R D' R' to cancel one move R'-R'
At # insert U' + D B2 D' U R2 to cancel two moves U'-U' and R2-R
At + B' L R2 U' D B2 U D' L' B Aarghh could not find a good insertion for these last three edges...
These BL set up moves for the last three edges cost me a 29 move PB

D U2 R D R' U2 R D' R' R' U' U' B' L R2 U' D B2 U D' L' B D B2 D' U R2 R D' R' U R R' L2 B2 R' B' L2
=
D U2 R D R' U2 R D' R2 U2 B' L R2 U' D B2 U D' L' B D B2 D' U R' D' R' U L2 B2 R' B' L2 33 HTM

Not very efficient I know but I couldn't resist the urge to try...
 
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I have been wondering about this for a while.
What are the least number of moves needed to swap 2 corners on the U face while paying no attention to M slice or U face edge orientation/permutation?
What about for diagonal?
 
Last edited:
Cool Frog said:
I have been wondering about this for a while.
What are the least number of moves needed to swap 2 corners on the U face while paying no attention to M slice or U face edge orientation/permutation?
What about for diagonal?
Click to expand...

I note that you didn't specify the orientation of the corners to swap. I am also assuming you are don't care about the positions and orientations of the U and M layer edges, and the rest of the edges are solved (must not be moved or change orientation). I am also assuming the other 6 corners are solved (must not be moved or change orientation).

On the 2x2x2, it takes 10 moves to swap 2 corners, without affecting the other 6, except for cases equivalent to these two cases:
Swap (ULF,URB): takes 11 moves (for this orientation case)
Swap (ULF,FRU): takes 11 moves (for this orientation case)

So obviously, you can't do better than this on the 3x3x3. The good news, for the cases where the corners being swapped are both in the U layer, and assuming the above conditions for the other pieces, it doesn't take any additional moves to do these swaps on the 3x3x3 than it does for the same cases on the 2x2x2. (I used ACube to check.)
 
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