[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[mazh]

If you do B at that point of the skeleton you will have all unsolved pieces on the same layer, and both edges are oriented. This means that it is a ZBLL. So I first set this up to get that ZBLL, but I didn't know it (now I do ). Instead, I saw that doing a sune using B U moves will lead to 3 corners, and cancels 3 moves on top of that.

So actually you have to look at the insertion like mazh described it

Do you often do the skeleton with parity, and then insert sune? I seldom do this kind of skeletons, so I don't konw how much it worth in competition. Do you have some suggestion about this? Such as, if it is easy to insert sune quickly? And how many moves of the AB2E4C skeleton is worth to insert?

 

[1001010101001]

What am I doing wrong here? I suck at F2L-1 + EO:
R' U' F R2 U2 B' R2 U2 F2 U2 B' F2 U2 R2 U F' R' D U B' D2 R2 B' L R' U' F

Solve:
D U' F2 D L D2 L2 R' U B2 D L2 U2 L U2 L' D' B' R B D L U B U' B2 L2 B R B' L B R' L2 F L2 R2 B2 L2 R2 F L2 R2 B L

Edit: I screwed my H-perm
I always get 40-50 moves using Heise, which is what I get with Roux HTM as well.

 

[theos]

What am I doing wrong here? I suck at F2L-1 + EO:
R' U' F R2 U2 B' R2 U2 F2 U2 B' F2 U2 R2 U F' R' D U B' D2 R2 B' L R' U' F

Solve:
D U' F2 D L D2 L2 R' U B2 D L2 U2 L U2 L' D' B' R B D L U B U' B2 L2 B R B' L B R' L2 F L2 R2 B2 L2 R2 F L2 R2 B L

Edit: I screwed my H-perm
I always get 40-50 moves using Heise, which is what I get with Roux HTM as well.

You can use insertions instead of last layer algs to get a better move count most of the time.
Scramble: R' U' F R2 U2 B' R2 U2 F2 U2 B' F2 U2 R2 U F' R' D U B' D2 R2 B' L R' U' F
Skeleton (from your solution): D U' F2 D L D2 L2 R' U B2 D L2 U2 L U2 * L' D' B' R B D L U B U' B2 // 26 moves to AB4C
Insertions (from IF)...
Insert at *: D' R D L' D' R' @ D L // 4/30 (4 moves cancelled)
Insert at @: R D' R' U' R D R' U // 5/35 (3 moves cancelled)
Solution: D U' F2 D L D2 L2 R' U B2 D L2 U2 L U2 D' R D L' D2 R' U' R D R' U B' R B D L U B U' B2 (35 moves)

As for the method, I'm not sure how much Heise is used for FMC. I'd recommend going for a general block-building approach which is more flexible in block-building options and where you can do EO earlier in the solution if it gives a shorter skeleton.

 

[Bubtore]

Do you often do the skeleton with parity, and then insert sune? I seldom do this kind of skeletons, so I don't konw how much it worth in competition. Do you have some suggestion about this? Such as, if it is easy to insert sune quickly? And how many moves of the AB2E4C skeleton is worth to insert?

In my opinion there is not really a rule for it, I just go by feeling, and sometimes it works out nicely.

 

[porkynator]

My solutions for FMC Europe.

Scramble #1: R' U' F U2 B D2 F L2 B R2 F R2 D2 F L B R2 F2 R D' B U' F2 R' U' F
Solution: B2 R B' L' B R' B' R U' D2 R B L2 B2 R F' R' F' R F R' B2 D2 L (26)

Spoiler

B + R L' U' //EO (4/4)
D2 R B //2x2x2 (3/7)
L2 * D2 (D2) //2x2x3 (3/10)
L F' //All but 4 edges and 4 corners (2/12)

* = B2 R F' R' . F' . R F R' B2 //All but 3 corners (9/21)
+ = B R B' L' B R' B' L //3c (5/26)

This was a nice one. I didn't see any way to conjugate the 8 unsolved pieces such that I would solve everything with an insertion like *, and leaving 3 corners is the next best thing.

Scramble #2: R' U' F D' B2 U B2 D2 L2 D B2 L D2 L2 B' L' D2 R D' B2 F L2 U' R' U' F
Solution: R L' D2 F2 B R2 F B L B' L2 D' B U' B' U R U D F D' R' D F' D' U' R' D2 L2 B' (30)

Spoiler

R L' F' //Pseudo 2x2x2 (3/3)
(B L2 D' L2) //One more square (4/7)
(B L' B2) //2x2x3 (3/10)
F D2 F2 B R2 F B' //All but 3 edges and 4 corners (4/14)

Skeleton: R L' D2 F2 B R2 F B L B' L2 * D L2 B'

Insert at *: D' # D

Reverse NISS at #, so we get:

Premoves D2 L2 B'

R L' D2 F2 B R2 F B L B' L2 D' //F2L in 15

Now it seems like it is an easy case, but even Guus didn't know it. One could go for All but 3 edges in 23 (if I am not wrong), and maybe I should have tried that. Instead I did:

B U' B' U //All but 4 pairs (4/19)
R U D F D' . R' . D F' D' U' R' //Finish (11/30)

I was short on time and a bit tired, so maybe there is a better way to finish.
Very advanced techniques for a not-so-good solve.

Scramble #3: R' U' F L2 U B2 U2 L2 U' L2 B2 R' B U R2 D2 L F D2 U F' L2 F2 R' U' F
Solution: F' L R2 F' L' U2 L U L' U L R' F' L2 F R D2 F2 U' B' U F2 U' B U' F D (27)

Spoiler

F' L //EO (2/2)
R2 F' //Square (2/4)
(D' F' D2) //2x2x2 + pair (3/7)
(U2 F' L2 F) //2x2x3 (4/11)
(L' U' L U' L' U2 L) //Sune - All but 4 corners (7/18)

Skeleton:
F' L R2 F' L' U2 L U L' U L F' + L2 F D2 * U2 F D
+ = F R' F' L2 F R F' L2 //3c (2/20)
* = F2 U'B' U F2 U' B U //3c (7/27)

For some reason I wasn't concentrated during this attempt. I kept misscrambling and I lost a lot of time because of this. I think I have found the skeleton at 49 minutes. Then a couple of misscrambles and I went through the scramble aiming at something that cancelled a lot. Luckily, I found the first insertion that cancelled 6. 4:30 minutes left. I run through the scramble again, find something that cancels 1, better than nothing. Less than 3 minutes left. I copy the solution, but it takes long. 1:30 left. Try the solution, doesn't work. Check for mistakes, correct one. 1 minute left. Try again the solution, it works, done with 30 seconds left. I didn't even count the moves, I feel lucky that my solution worked.

In the end I am satisfied of my results, even though I feel like I could have done better. This is my best result at an FMC Europe competition. Maybe I should practice for Euros...

 

[Shymon]

R' U' F U2 B' R2 D2 F L2 F' U2 L2 D F2 L F' D2 R U F' R B' F' R' U' F
Tried multiple EOs, blocks, basically anything I could think of, yet nothing gave me a satisfactory skeleton. Could anyone help?

 

[Hssandwich]

FMC Europe solutions:

R' U' F U2 B D2 F L2 B R2 F R2 D2 F L B R2 F2 R D' B U' F2 R' U' F

Spoiler

R D2 U' R B //2x2x2
(L D') D //2x2x3
(F L2) L2 //F2L-1
L' F L F2 //14 to 3c3e

R D2 U' @ & R B D L F L F2 L2 F' D L'
@ D R2 B2 L2 U B2 R2 F2 (2 cancel after the next insertion)
& F' R B2 R' F R B2 R' (3 cancel)

Solution: R D' U' R2 B2 L2 U B2 R2 F R B2 R' F R B' D L F L F2 L2 F' D L' (25)

R' U' F D' B2 U B2 D2 L2 D B2 L D2 L2 B' L' D2 R D' B2 F L2 U' R' U' F

Spoiler

(D') B' R' U //EO
B2 (B) //square
U2 R' //two squares!
(U2 R2 B2) //F2L-1
D L' D' L //15 to 3c3e

B' R' U B2 U2 R' & D L' D' L @ B2 R2 U2 B' D
@ R' B' D' B D R (leaves 3c)
& L' D R D' L D R' D' (2 cancel)


B' R' U B2 U2 R' L' D R D' L D R' L' D' L R' B' D' B D R B2 R2 U2 B' D (27)

R' U' F L2 U B2 U2 L2 U' L2 B2 R' B U R2 D2 L F D2 U F' L2 F2 R' U' F

Spoiler

(D F) //square
D2 F2 L //2x2x2
R D2 R2 //pseudo 2x2x3
D2 B2 (B R) //F2L-1
B' D2 B //F2L
L' D' F' D F L D //21 to 3c

Skeleton: D2 F2 L R D2 R2 D2 B D2 @ B L' D' F' D F L D R' B' F' D'
@ D' B' U' B D B' U B (2 cancel)

D2 F2 L R D2 R2 D2 B D B' U' B D B' U B2 L' D' F' D F L D R' B' F' D' (27)

25, 27, 27 = 26.33 mean, 2nd place

 

[1001010101001]

When I do the pairs in Heise sometimes I get a parity, 2 edges swapped. How can i fix this optimally

 

[T1_M0]

My last solution from FMC Europe, messed up the 2 others. Basically my 2x2x2 continuation just formed a huge amount of pairs.

Scramble R' U' F L2 U B2 U2 L2 U' L2 B2 R' B U R2 D2 L F D2 U F' L2 F2 R' U' F

(D F) // sq // 2/2
D2 F2 L // 2x2x2 // 3/5
R D2 R2 // p.2x2x3 // 3/8
D2 B D2 * B // p.F2L // 4/12
(B R) // premoves (did these for a f2l-1 originally only after doing these I noticed the f2l into 6-move oll into 3c) // 2/14
L' D' F' D F L D // OLL // 7/21

*[D', B' U' B] // 6/27

 

[Hssandwich]

My last solution from FMC Europe, messed up the 2 others. Basically my 2x2x2 continuation just formed a huge amount of pairs.

Scramble R' U' F L2 U B2 U2 L2 U' L2 B2 R' B U R2 D2 L F D2 U F' L2 F2 R' U' F

(D F) // sq // 2/2
D2 F2 L // 2x2x2 // 3/5
R D2 R // p.2x2x3 // 3/8
D2 B D2 * B // p.F2L // 4/12
(B R) // premoves (did these for a f2l-1 originally only after doing these I noticed the f2l into 6-move oll into 3c) // 2/14
L' D' F' D F L D // OLL // 7/21

*[D', B' U' B] // 6/27

Same solution

 

[T1_M0]

Same solution

Whoa, it was, didn't even read yours. I was doing one-handed btw.

 

[Bubtore]

FMC Europe solutions:

R' U' F U2 B D2 F L2 B R2 F R2 D2 F L B R2 F2 R D' B U' F2 R' U' F

Spoiler

R D2 U' R B //2x2x2
(L D') D //2x2x3
(F L2) L2 //F2L-1
L' F L F2 //14 to 3c3e

R D2 U' @ & R B D L F L F2 L2 F' D L'
@ D R2 B2 L2 U B2 R2 F2 (2 cancel after the next insertion)
& F' R B2 R' F R B2 R' (3 cancel)

Solution: R D' U' R2 B2 L2 U B2 R2 F R B2 R' F R B' D L F L F2 L2 F' D L' (25)

R' U' F D' B2 U B2 D2 L2 D B2 L D2 L2 B' L' D2 R D' B2 F L2 U' R' U' F

Spoiler

(D') B' R' U //EO
B2 (B) //square
U2 R' //two squares!
(U2 R2 B2) //F2L-1
D L' D' L //15 to 3c3e

B' R' U B2 U2 R' & D L' D' L @ B2 R2 U2 B' D
@ R' B' D' B D R (leaves 3c)
& L' D R D' L D R' D' (2 cancel)


B' R' U B2 U2 R' L' D R D' L D R' L' D' L R' B' D' B D R B2 R2 U2 B' D (27)

R' U' F L2 U B2 U2 L2 U' L2 B2 R' B U R2 D2 L F D2 U F' L2 F2 R' U' F

Spoiler

(D F) //square
D2 F2 L //2x2x2
R D2 R2 //pseudo 2x2x3
D2 B2 (B R) //F2L-1
B' D2 B //F2L
L' D' F' D F L D //21 to 3c

Skeleton: D2 F2 L R D2 R2 D2 B D2 @ B L' D' F' D F L D R' B' F' D'
@ D' B' U' B D B' U B (2 cancel)

D2 F2 L R D2 R2 D2 B D B' U' B D B' U B2 L' D' F' D F L D R' B' F' D' (27)

25, 27, 27 = 26.33 mean, 2nd place

I've found this insertion with your skeleton on the first attempt :
S // R' U' F U2 B D2 F L2 B R2 F R2 D2 F L B R2 F2 R D' B U' F2 R' U' F

Skel // R D2 U' R B D L F L F2 L2 F' * D L'

* F2 U' F U L U' F' U F L' F

Solution // R D2 U' R B D L F L F2 L2 F U' F U L U' F' U F L' F D L' - 24 Moves

it's just a pseudo F2L and when doing OLL, the PLL skips.

edit : this also works (at the same place as the other insertion)
* F' U L U' L F R F' L2 F R'
That's a FRURUF + commutator combination and also gives 24.

 

[Hssandwich]

I've found this insertion with your skeleton on the first attempt :
S // R' U' F U2 B D2 F L2 B R2 F R2 D2 F L B R2 F2 R D' B U' F2 R' U' F

Skel // R D2 U' R B D L F L F2 L2 F' * D L'

* F2 U' F U L U' F' U F L' F

Solution // R D2 U' R B D L F L F2 L2 F U' F U L U' F' U F L' F D L' - 24 Moves

it's just a pseudo F2L and when doing OLL, the PLL skips.

edit : this also works (at the same place as the other insertion)
* F' U L U' L F R F' L2 F R'
That's a FRURUF + commutator combination and also gives 24.

Insertion finder showed me the same thing after the attempt... Not sure how I managed to miss it even though I checked reverse NISS

 

[Duncan Bannon]

Has anybody heard about FMC Americas 2018?

 

[theos]

R' U' F U2 B' R2 D2 F L2 F' U2 L2 D F2 L F' D2 R U F' R B' F' R' U' F
Tried multiple EOs, blocks, basically anything I could think of, yet nothing gave me a satisfactory skeleton. Could anyone help?

Spent way too much of my Sunday on this one
Got a lot of long skeletons or mediocre 3-cycle skeletons. This was something like my 5th or 6th starting 2x2x2 block that I tried but ended up getting a really nice solution. Wish I could find these within an hour for competitions but I rarely have time to investigate more than 1 or 2 starting blocks.

Scramble: R' U' F U2 B' R2 D2 F L2 F' U2 L2 D F2 L F' D2 R U F' R B' F' R' U' F
B' L R2 U' L' U2 (F') // 2x2x2 block (+1 pair that I didn't end up using) [7/7]
(B D' B L' D2 L') // 2x2x3 block (with only 2 edges misoriented) [6/13]
R D' R' // EO (+1 pair) [3/16]
B2 D B D2 // F2L-1 (+3 pairs) [4/20]
B D' B2 D // F2L (which links up all the pairs) [4/24]
B2 // AUF (LL skip) [1/25]
Solution: B' L R2 U' L' U2 R D' R' B2 D B D2 B D' B2 D B2 L D2 L B' D B' F (25 moves)

 

[Bubtore]

Desafio de Verão 2018
Scramble 1 // R' U' F U2 B2 L' B2 L2 F2 U2 B2 R' D2 B' R' B R B' U B' R2 U R' U' F

(R2 F) // Pairs
U2 R2 B U' B2 L2 // 222
R' B2 L U' R // Tripod
L2 B L B' // L3C

Skel // U2 R2 B U' B2 L2 R' B2 L + U' R L2 B L B' F' R2
+ L' B' R' B L B' R B

Solution // U2 R2 B U' B2 L2 R' B R' B L B' R B U' R L2 B L B' F' R2 - 22 Moves

Desafio de Verão 2018 Scramble 2 // R' U' F U' R2 U' B2 D' F2 U R F L2 B U2 L' D2 R2 F2 R2 U2 R' U' F

B L F2 D' // 222
(R F' U2 F) // EO
(R U2 R U' F2) // 223
(R' U R U2 R U R U) // 3C

Skel // B L F2 D' U' R' U' R' U2 R' U' R F2 U R' * U2 R' F' U2 F R'
* R U' L' U R' U' L U

Solution // B L F2 D' U' R' U' R' U2 R' U' R F2 L' U R' U' L U' R' F' U2 F R' - 24 Moves

 

[BQ]

My solutions for FMC Europe 2018

1. Scramble: R' U' F U2 B D2 F L2 B R2 F R2 D2 F L B R2 F2 R D' B U' F2 R' U' F
Solution: R2 U' F R2 F R' B R F' R' F' U' B' F' R2 U L2 U F' D' F U' D (23f)

Spoiler

R2 U' F R * //eo
B F' U' B' F' R2 U L2 //223 + some edges
U F' D' F U' D //l3c
*: R F R' B R F' R' B'

2. Scramble: R' U' F D' B2 U B2 D2 L2 D B2 L D2 L2 B' L' D2 R D' B2 F L2 U' R' U' F
Solution: R L' F' R2 D2 B' R F D' B' D F' D' R D R B' D' L F' L2 F R2 F' L2 F B （27f)

Spoiler

R L' F' //pseudo 222
NISS
B' # L' //222+blocks
NISS
R2 D2 B' * R D' B' R D R B' D' R2 //L5C
*: F D' B' D F' D' B D
#: F' L2 F R2 F' L2 F R2

3. Scramble: R' U' F L2 U B2 U2 L2 U' L2 B2 R' B U R2 D2 L F D2 U F' L2 F2 R' U' F
Solution: R F' L2 F R' F' L' D' B D F D B' D' F' D' B2 D R2 D B' D' F' D B D F D

Spoiler

F' L //eo
NISS
D' F' D2 F //222
R2 D' B2 D2 B D2 B' D //L6C
skeleton: # F' L D' B D2 * B' D2 B2 D R2 @ F' D2 F D
*: D' F D B' D' F' D B
#: R F' L2 F R' F' L2 F
@: D B' D' F' D B D' F

Here's a 21 moves solution for 3rd scramble from Bo Huang

Spoiler

NISS
D F R
NISS
D2 F2 L R D2 R2 L B L2 D2 L B D' R D' R' B' D

 

[porkynator]

1. Scramble: R' U' F U2 B D2 F L2 B R2 F R2 D2 F L B R2 F2 R D' B U' F2 R' U' F
Solution: R2 U' F R2 F R' B R F' R' F' U' B' F' R2 U L2 U F' D' F U' D (23f)

Spoiler

R2 U' F R * //eo
B F' U' B' F' R2 U L2 //223 + some edges
U F' D' F U' D //l3c
*: R F R' B R F' R' B'

Very nice solution for the first scramble! I think the smart trick here was the first F' on the second line that I put in bold. It allows to align the BR edge (blue-red) to its center while matching the square in DFL (orange-white-blue).

 

[asacuber]

can anyone give me an optimal solution for a 3cycle w/ setup:

R2 U F2 R2 F2 D' F2 D R2 B D' F2 D B' R2 U'

 

[guysensei1]

can anyone give me an optimal solution for a 3cycle w/ setup:

R2 U F2 R2 F2 D' F2 D R2 B D' F2 D B' R2 U'

Not the same angle, but

U2 B2 D2 B U2 B' D2 B U2 B U2