[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[T1_M0]

does anyone have a good list of commutators i can use for fmc? I just got into this and im starting from cfop, and as it is known, cfop is pretty bad in fmc. all i know for edges is u perm (but i do know the optimal one) and all i know for corners is a perm.

You should learn them intuively (at least the corners first)

 

[ChrisCuber123]

dadams weekly:

Spoiler

D' F2 L F' // EO
L F2 U2 // 2x2x2
U L2 U' // 2x2x3
L D' L' // F2L-1
R' D' R D2 // L4C

skeleton: D' F2 L F' L F2 U' L2 ^ U' L D' L' * R' D' R D2
*: D' L' D R' D' L D R
^: L B' L' F' L B L' F
final solution: D' F2 L F' L F2 U' L' B' L' F' L B L' F U' L D' L' D' L' D R' D' L R D2 (27)

messed around with other starts finding nothing good for like 30 minutes, then found this skeleton in like 30 seconds

 

[guysensei1]

dadams weekly:

Spoiler

D' F2 L F' // EO
L F2 U2 // 2x2x2
U L2 U' // 2x2x3
L D' L' // F2L-1
R' D' R D2 // L4C

skeleton: D' F2 L F' L F2 U' L2 ^ U' L D' L' * R' D' R D2
*: D' L' D R' D' L D R
^: L B' L' F' L B L' F
final solution: D' F2 L F' L F2 U' L' B' L' F' L B L' F U' L D' L' D' L' D R' D' L R D2 (27)

messed around with other starts finding nothing good for like 30 minutes, then found this skeleton in like 30 seconds

Ayylmao we have the exact same skeleton. I posted mine on the previous page XD

 

[greentgoatgal]

Sorry guys.. This is going to be the most over asked request ever

FMC tutorial, please

 

[Neuro]

Well I got a 28, but I feel it could've beeen a lot better. Can someone please show me a better solution with an explanation? I would greatly appreciate any help! Thank you!

SCRAMBLE: D2 F2 U' L2 F2 D B2 D' F2 L2 B2 L U F2 R' U B L' D B' D'

D' B' R F2 D' F2 L//2x2x3 (7/7)
F D' F'//EO (3/10)
R D R2 * D' R2 D' R D2 R2 D//L4C (10/20)

*=R2 D F U2 F' D' R2 D2 B L2 B' D2

Final Solution: D' B' R F2 D' F2 L F D' F' R D2 F U2 F' D' R2 D2 B L2 B' D R2 D' R D2 R2 D

 

[CyanSandwich]

Sorry guys.. This is going to be the most over asked request ever

FMC tutorial, please

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/fmc-a-complete-tutorial.49162/

 

[guysensei1]

Well I got a 28, but I feel it could've beeen a lot better. Can someone please show me a better solution with an explanation? I would greatly appreciate any help! Thank you!

SCRAMBLE: D2 F2 U' L2 F2 D B2 D' F2 L2 B2 L U F2 R' U B L' D B' D'

D' B' R F2 D' F2 L//2x2x3 (7/7)
F D' F'//EO (3/10)
R D R2 * D' R2 D' R D2 R2 D//L4C (10/20)

*=R2 D F U2 F' D' R2 D2 B L2 B' D2

Final Solution: D' B' R F2 D' F2 L F D' F' R D2 F U2 F' D' R2 D2 B L2 B' D R2 D' R D2 R2 D

D' B' R F2 D' F2 L //your 2x2x3 (7/7)
D B R2 B' D' //almost an f2l, minus a cross edge (5/12)
At this point, first I tried the obvious
R2 F B' D2 F' B//insert that cross edge (6/18)
U' B2 D2 L' D' L D' B2 U R//zbll (10/28)

great! already tied your solution But we can do better. Notice that the moves to insert the cross edge is just an edge commutator. We can leave that out and do that as an insertion.

D' B' R F2 D' F2 L //your 2x2x3 (7/7)
D B R2 B' D' //almost an f2l, minus a cross edge (5/12)
U' B2 D2 L' D' L D' B2 U R//3E (10/22)

turns out the optimal insertion requires swapping the underlined moves (which is something I neglect myself, I need to be more careful to check for these)

D' B' R F2 D' F2 L D B R2 B' U' * D' B2 D2 L' D' L D' B2 U R

*=R' L B2 R L' D2

so we get

D' B' R F2 D' F2 L D B R2 B' U' R' L B2 R L' D B2 D2 L' D' L D' B2 U R (27)

 

[greentgoatgal]

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/fmc-a-complete-tutorial.49162/

Thanks

 

[Theo Leinad]

How would you finish following scramble with given steps until F2L-1:

Scramble:
R' U' F D' L2 U2 F2 U B2 U' R2 B2 U2 L B R2 D B' F U' F' U2 R' U2 R' U' F

Steps:
D' B D L2 D2 B L2 (222) x7
B U' R' (221) x3
U' R' U' (Pseudo F2L-1) x3
R2 B' R B R2 (F2L-1) x5
...

 

[Rcuber123]

dadams weekly:

Spoiler

D' F2 L F' // EO
L F2 U2 // 2x2x2
U L2 U' // 2x2x3
L D' L' // F2L-1
R' D' R D2 // L4C

skeleton: D' F2 L F' L F2 U' L2 ^ U' L D' L' * R' D' R D2
*: D' L' D R' D' L D R
^: L B' L' F' L B L' F
final solution: D' F2 L F' L F2 U' L' B' L' F' L B L' F U' L D' L' D' L' D R' D' L R D2 (27)

messed around with other starts finding nothing good for like 30 minutes, then found this skeleton in like 30 seconds

I found that skeleton but I also found a 16 moves to l4c skeleton and a 15 moves to good l5c but optimal for all of them was 27...

 

[guysensei1]

weekly fmc, 27

Spoiler

s: F' B R' B R' F L' U R' B' D' R B2 L2 R' B' D2 L F R'

Inverse with premove R, (1/1)
F' L B2 U' L' B//2x2x2 (6/7)
R' F//two squares (2/9)
L D L' D//2x2x3 with random inefficiency (4/13)
R2//F2L-1 (1/14)
U' R U R'//F2L (4/18)
L' F' L' U L U' F L F'//LL (9/27)

final: R' F L' F' U L' U' L F L R U' R' U R2 D' L D' L' F' R B' L U B2 L' F (27)

yay for freefop

 

[Bubtore]

26.00 Swiss NR mean solutions :

S // R' U' F D2 R2 B2 L2 F2 R2 D' U' R U R2 D2 B' U2 R2 B R' B' L2 F' R' U' F

Spoiler

F' B R' B' D2 F' D' F R' * // 222 + EO
B2 D2 L' // 223
D2 B2 D2 B2 // Tripod
R D R' D' // 3C

* R F R' B R F' R' B'

Solution // F' B R' B' D2 F' D' F2 R' B R F' R' B D2 L' D2 B2 D2 B2 R D R' D' - 24 Moves

S // R' U' F R' U2 L B2 D2 R' D2 R F2 L' F' R' D' B' U L' U2 R2 B D R' U' F

Spoiler

I // F' U R D' B' R2 U2 L U' B D R F L F2 R' D2 R D2 B2 L' U2 R F' U R

(L' B' D2 B2) // 122
(U F U F) // EO
(R2 L' D' R' B2 L) // 223
(L U L' B2 U2) // 4C

Skel // U2 B2 L U' L2 B2 * R D + L R2 F' U' F' U' B2 D2 B L - 18
* B L2 B' R B L2 B' R'
+ D R D' L' D R' D' L

Solution // U2 B2 L U' L2 B' L2 B' R B L2 B' D2 R D' L' D R' D' L2 R2 F' U' F' U' B2 D2 B L - 29 Moves

S // R' U' F R2 D2 F2 R2 B' D2 R2 B R2 B L R B' L2 F L' B' L' U B R' U' F

Spoiler

I // F' U R B' U' L B L F' L2 B R' L' B' R2 B' R2 D2 B R2 F2 D2 R2 F' U R

(F2 L2 B') // EO
(D F2 L' D2) // 222
(U2 L * B2 L2 B2) // 223
(U L' U' L2 U' L2 U L) // 3C

* L' B R2 B' L B R2 B'

Solution // L' U' L2 U L2 U L U' B2 L2 B' R2 B' L' B R2 B' U2 D2 L F2 D' B L2 F2 - 25 Moves

 

[ChrisCuber123]

26.00 Swiss NR mean solutions :

S // R' U' F D2 R2 B2 L2 F2 R2 D' U' R U R2 D2 B' U2 R2 B R' B' L2 F' R' U' F

Spoiler

F' B R' B' D2 F' D' F R' * // 222 + EO
B2 D2 L' // 223
D2 B2 D2 B2 // Tripod
R D R' D' // 3C

* R F R' B R F' R' B'

Solution // F' B R' B' D2 F' D' F2 R' B R F' R' B D2 L' D2 B2 D2 B2 R D R' D' - 24 Moves

S // R' U' F R' U2 L B2 D2 R' D2 R F2 L' F' R' D' B' U L' U2 R2 B D R' U' F

Spoiler

I // F' U R D' B' R2 U2 L U' B D R F L F2 R' D2 R D2 B2 L' U2 R F' U R

(L' B' D2 B2) // 122
(U F U F) // EO
(R2 L' D' R' B2 L) // 223
(L U L' B2 U2) // 4C

Skel // U2 B2 L U' L2 B2 * R D + L R2 F' U' F' U' B2 D2 B L - 18
* B L2 B' R B L2 B' R'
+ D R D' L' D R' D' L

Solution // U2 B2 L U' L2 B' L2 B' R B L2 B' D2 R D' L' D R' D' L2 R2 F' U' F' U' B2 D2 B L - 29 Moves

S // R' U' F R2 D2 F2 R2 B' D2 R2 B R2 B L R B' L2 F L' B' L' U B R' U' F

Spoiler

I // F' U R B' U' L B L F' L2 B R' L' B' R2 B' R2 D2 B R2 F2 D2 R2 F' U R

(F2 L2 B') // EO
(D F2 L' D2) // 222
(U2 L * B2 L2 B2) // 223
(U L' U' L2 U' L2 U L) // 3C

* L' B R2 B' L B R2 B'

Solution // L' U' L2 U L2 U L U' B2 L2 B' R2 B' L' B R2 B' U2 D2 L F2 D' B L2 F2 - 25 Moves

Nice mean! I tried these scrambles, here are my solutions:

1. F' R' D B2 L' F' L B2 L' F D' L U L' D' L D' R2 D' U' R D' R' D' U2 F' U2 L' (28 moves)

Spoiler

F' (L U2 F) // EO (4/4)
R' U (U') // 2x2x2 (3/7)
D L' D2 L // 2x2x3 (4/11)
D' R2 // F2L-1 - 1C (2/13)
D' U' R D' R' D' U // L5C (6/19)
skeleton: F' R' D * U L' D2 L D' R2 D' U' R D' R' D' U2 F' U2 L' (19)
*: L' ^ D' L U L' D L U' (3/22)
^: L B2 L' F' L B2 L' F (6/28)

2. R2 D B' R' B2 F2 R U' L2 U R U' L U R2 U' L U' L2 D U R U' R2 U R' U B (28 moves)

Spoiler

(B') R2 D B' // EO (4/4)
R' B2 F2 U2 L2 D U // psF2L-1 - 1C (7/11)
R U' R2 U R' U // L5C (6/17)
skeleton: R2 D B' R' B2 F2 * U2 L2 D U R U' R2 U R' U B (17)
*: R2 ^ U' L' U R2 U' L U (7/24)
^: R' U' L2 U R U' L2 U (4/28)

3. U D' L U' L' D U' L U R' U2 R U2 D2 L F' D B D' F' D B' D2 B L2 F2 (26 moves)

Spoiler

(F2 L2 B') // EO (3/3)
(D F2 L' D2) // 2x2x2 (4/7)
(U2 R' U2 R) // 2x2x3 (4/11)
(U' L' U L U L' U') // L5C (7/18)
skeleton: U * L U' L' U' L U R' U2 R U2 D2 L F2 ^ D' B L2 F2
*: D' L U' L' D L U L' (2/20)
^: F D B D' F' D B' D' (6/26)

28, 28, 26 = 27.33 mean

 

[Theo Leinad]

Hello people,
I have a suggestion for the ultimate FMC technique, please help me understanding if this approach is good or not
The steps to follow are pretty simple, this just came to my mind and need help to summarize and get the numbers right.
1. EO is very recommendable (3-4movs)
2. Do all the edges (Skeleton) (10-14? movs)
3. L8C (3 Inserts Avg) in some cases we might find less corners to solve (we called them lucky corners)

So in Step 1, I would like to know how many moves are required to have all the edges solved.
In step 2, if we only focus on 8 movers for insertions, it should be about 24 moves avg minus cancelled moves.
Steps to improve (Corner Orientation)

Does anyone have tried this?
Why is this or is not optimal?
Any comments?

Thank you.

 

[sqAree]

Hello people,
I have a suggestion for the ultimate FMC technique, please help me understanding if this approach is good or not
The steps to follow are pretty simple, this just came to my mind and need help to summarize and get the numbers right.
1. EO is very recommendable (3-4movs)
2. Do all the edges (Skeleton) (10-14? movs)
3. L8C (3 Inserts Avg) in some cases we might find less corners to solve (we called them lucky corners)

So in Step 1, I would like to know how many moves are required to have all the edges solved.
In step 2, if we only focus on 8 movers for insertions, it should be about 24 moves avg minus cancelled moves.
Steps to improve (Corner Orientation)

Does anyone have tried this?
Why is this or is not optimal?
Any comments?

Thank you.

Hm, I'd say 8 corners are not solvable with 3 comms most of the time especially as there might be twisted corners. But even without those it doesn't seem too likely.
But even if, with 24 + 10 + 3 = 37 moves we get a quite bad result considering world class FMC cubers average consistently sub30 moves. There won't be too many cancellations as it's a quite short skeleton in the beginning and even just two insertions can be hard to get optimal.

 

[Theo Leinad]

Well, after first insertion, skeleton gets larger, so you can insert next set of corners, but remember since you have 2 insertions, you might be able to do the last insert instead of the second one...
You have many options for the insertions...
But it's true, it'll be hard to do optimal inserts..
I'm aiming to reduce the skeleton to sub 30 with this technique...
As I stated, this just came to my mind, so need to try it a couple of times to see if its powerful or not

 

[ChrisCuber123]

Hello people,
I have a suggestion for the ultimate FMC technique, please help me understanding if this approach is good or not
The steps to follow are pretty simple, this just came to my mind and need help to summarize and get the numbers right.
1. EO is very recommendable (3-4movs)
2. Do all the edges (Skeleton) (10-14? movs)
3. L8C (3 Inserts Avg) in some cases we might find less corners to solve (we called them lucky corners)

So in Step 1, I would like to know how many moves are required to have all the edges solved.
In step 2, if we only focus on 8 movers for insertions, it should be about 24 moves avg minus cancelled moves.
Steps to improve (Corner Orientation)

Does anyone have tried this?
Why is this or is not optimal?
Any comments?

Thank you.

This just won't work. It's pretty rare that you can solve 8 corners in 3 comms, often you'll need 4 or 5. This makes adding 32-40 moves to a 15ish moves skeleton, minus cancellations. Even if you get 1 or 2 corners solved unintentionally, it's still pretty likely that a corner or 2 will be twisted. It's much more efficient to make blocks and solve up to a 3c/4c/5c skeleton

 

[hagner]

dadams weekly fmc 188

pb 32

Spoiler

scramble: F' L U F B2 U2 F2 L' B D U2 F R' D2 F B L R2 F L'

(U) B2 R2 F //2x2x2 inserted move in ( )
(B) U’ B’ L’ B’ R’ B2’ R’ B2 L B’ //F2L-1 inserted move in ( )
R U R2 U’ R2 U’ R2 U2 //last pair and OLL “cancelled move(s)”
R’ F2 R’ B’ R F2 R’ B R’ //A perm “cancelled move(s)”

 

[BenBergen]

28 - new PB

B2 L2 R U2 L2 U2 F2 R' B2 D2 B2 U L' D' U' L F' R U2 B' L2

L2 B' * R' U' F L B2 // 2x2x2
U R2 U2 R F' R U // 2x2x3
R2 D' F' D // EO
F' R2 // F2L-1

By some miracle, after F2L-1 I was left with only a corner 3-cycle. I couldn't solve it with an 8-mover right away, so I found a spot in the solve where I could insert an 8-move commutator.

* - D F2 D' B' D F2 D' B // L3C

Unfortuantely, I ran out of time before finding an insertion with any cancellations. This could have easily been a 26 or 27 with an extra 10 minutes.

L2 B' D F2 D' B' D F2 D' B R' U' F L B2 U R2 U2 R F' R U R2 D' F' D F' R2

 

[Jaysammey777]

Michigan 2017: 39, 27, 29

Redid Scramble 1 and found this in under 10 minutes:

Spoiler

Scramble: R' U' F U2 F2 D' L2 U2 B2 U' B2 F2 U' L' U2 R B' L D' U F' L' B' D R' U' F

2x2x2R' B' U2 D' F) (5/5)
2x2x3: (L U2 L U B2) (5/10)
F2L-1: (L2 U' L2) (3/13)
F2L: (B' U' B) (3/16)
AB3C: (B L U' L' B' R' U R) (7/23)
Insertion finder cancels 2 for 29

Didn't really look for more, pretty sad could have gotten a 28.33 mean