[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[Daniel Lin]

i just found out today that U R B U' B' U2 can be rewritten as U' F' U' F R while learning ZBLL algs

how can you tell just by looking at an alg if it can be rewritten in a different way?

 

[Cale S]

i just found out today that U R B U' B' U2 can be rewritten as U' F' U' F R while learning ZBLL algs

how can you tell just by looking at an alg if it can be rewritten in a different way?

it mostly comes down to knowing the few cases that work, for example:
R U2 R' L' U2 L = L' U2 L R U2 R'
L' U L R U2 R' = R U2 R' L' U' L
R U R' F' U2 L' U' L F U2 does nothing as well as its cyclic shifts, this can be used the most probably
R U2 R' U' R' F R F' = U2 R U B U2 B' R'
R U R' F' U F = U F R' F' R U

 

[Daniel Lin]

it mostly comes down to knowing the few cases that work, for example:
R U2 R' L' U2 L = L' U2 L R U2 R'
L' U L R U2 R' = R U2 R' L' U' L
R U R' F' U2 L' U' L F U2 does nothing as well as its cyclic shifts, this can be used the most probably
R U2 R' U' R' F R F' = U2 R U B U2 B' R'
R U R' F' U F = U F R' F' R U

Cool. Where did you get these from?

 

[Cale S]

Cool. Where did you get these from?

most I just found by playing around with stuff

 

[okayama]

Hi everyone!

Following NISS solutions is a pain even for those who know how, so I made a web site that does the work for you. I hope people will like it enough to use it, and hate it enough to tell me how it should be improved.

As an example, here is a recent NISS solution from this forum (#3716 by Cale S):

http://birdflu.lar5.com/fmc?s=lublbrqdqruRpnln1rDur&n=pq(pl)Pdf(qpPb)BnRUqrB(bnPURBu)

Thanks for your nice work!

 

[Joey VOV]

Try this scramble: I think what I did is obvious but I'd like more perspectives.
L2 B2 U2 R2 D' L2 F2 R2 F2 U2 L' U' L' U' B D' B2 L F L2

Spoiler

Scramble: L2 B2 U2 R2 D' L2 F2 R2 F2 U2 L' U' L' U' B D' B2 L F L2
Inverse: L2 F' L' B2 D B' U L U L U2 F2 R2 F2 L2 D R2 U2 B2 L2

ON NORMAL:
D F L' / 222 (3)
R' D F R' / 2 221 BLOCKS (7)
F2 D / PF2L-1 (9)
SWITCH TO INVERSE:
D2 F' D2 R' D' R2 / TO L3C (15)

SKELETON: D F L' R' D F R' F2 D R2 D R ^D2 F D2
INSERT AT^: F' U F D2 F' U' F D2

FINAL SOLUTION: D F L' R' D F R' F2 D R2 D R F' U F D2 F' U' F2 D2 (20)

 

[Rcuber123]

Try this scramble: I think what I did is obvious but I'd like more perspectives.
L2 B2 U2 R2 D' L2 F2 R2 F2 U2 L' U' L' U' B D' B2 L F L2

Spoiler

Scramble: L2 B2 U2 R2 D' L2 F2 R2 F2 U2 L' U' L' U' B D' B2 L F L2
Inverse: L2 F' L' B2 D B' U L U L U2 F2 R2 F2 L2 D R2 U2 B2 L2

ON NORMAL:
D F L' / 222 (3)
R' D F R' / 2 221 BLOCKS (7)
F2 D / PF2L-1 (9)
SWITCH TO INVERSE:
D2 F' D2 R' D' R2 / TO L3C (15)

SKELETON: D F L' R' D F R' F2 D R2 D R ^D2 F D2
INSERT AT^: F' U F D2 F' U' F D2

FINAL SOLUTION: D F L' R' D F R' F2 D R2 D R F' U F D2 F' U' F2 D2 (20)

up until the 9th move i did the same but i don't use NISS

 

[TeddyKGB]

Here are my solutions for my NAR mean (24.67) from Indiana 2016

Moves in parenthesis are on inverse

1. R' U' F D2 R D2 F2 L B2 L' B2 L2 B' U2 F L B D' L U' R B D R' U' F

Spoiler

(F L D2 B) // EO
(F2 U2 F2 U2) // 2x2x2
(D' L2 D) // Blocks
(F2 L F2 L D2) // L5C

Skeleton: D2 L' @ F2 L' F2 D' L2 # D U2 F2 U2 F2 B' D2 L' F'

@ = D' B D F2 D' B' D F2 - 2 Moves cancel
# = F' U2 F D F' U2 F D' - 2 Moves cancel

Solution: D2 L' D' B D F2 D' B' D L' F2 D' L2 F' U2 F D F' U2 F U2 F2 U2 F2 B' D2 L' F' (28)

2. R' U' F U' R2 B2 D2 L2 D2 F2 U' B2 U R' F' R D2 L' U' B F2 D2 U B R' U' F

Spoiler

(F D) // 2x2x1
(U' R) // 2x2x2
(D' L B2 D) // 2x2x3 + EO
(B2 L B2 L2) // F2L -1
(L' B' L B2) // L4C

Skeleton: B2 L' B L' B2 L' B2 D' B2 L' @ D R' U D' F'

@ = L' D R2 D' L D # R2 D' - 4 moves cancel
# = D R U R' D' R U' R' - 5 moves cancel

Solution: B2 L' B L' B2 L' B2 D' B2 L2 D R2 D' L D2 R U R' D' R D' F' (22)

3. R' U' F U2 B2 D U F2 L2 D F2 R F R2 D2 L U' R2 D' L D' B D' R' U' F

Spoiler

(L F D' B' R) // EO
U' D2 F // 2x2x2
B2 U' B U B U // Pseudo F2L -1
D' B D // Pseudo F2L
U B U' B U B2 // L3C

Skeleton: U' D2 F B2 U' B @ U B U D' B D U B U' B U B2 R' B D F' L'

@ = B D' B' U B D B' U' - 7 Moves cancel

Solution: U' D2 F B2 U' B2 D' B' U B U B D U B U' B U B2 R' B D F' L' (24)

 

[Cale S]

really interesting solution

Scramble: B' U2 F' D2 F' U2 B F L2 U2 F' L B2 U' B U F' D R' U' F'

U F B' D' // square
L2 B' // another square
(L2 R U2 L F' L' F' R) // to 3c4e

U F B' D' L2 B' R' F @ L F L' U2 ^ R' L2

@ = [E, L F L'] // edge 3-cycle cancels 7 moves
^ = F' U' F U L' U L U' // finish

Final solution: U F B' D' L2 B' R' F U D' B L B' U D F' U' F U L' U L U' R' L2
25 moves

 

[Ksh13]

So after asking on Reddit and not really getting an answer there, I figured out this would be the best place to seek advice. So basically after reading myself up a bit on FMC (read the majority of that big FMC guide), I have one big problem. I can not find much on how you move on from say a 2x2x3 or F2L-1 to something like L3C. How do you effiecently permute the edges and such to get to that point? I always end up completing F2L and doing LL instead, which I am aware of is horribly ineffiecent. I really haven't found any resources on this. Here is an example of what I mean:

xxxxx // 2x2x2
xxxxx // 2x2x3
xxxxx // Some stuff that brings you to L3C

I'm basically wondering how you get good at/resources about how you do the "Some stuff that brings you to L3C" part.

 

[4Chan]

I'm not that great at FMC, I average around 36 officially.

So what I do in that situation is just put the edges in the right place, and generally speaking, stuff just randomly comes together to give you either L3C or L4C, since with 5 corners in motion, you're bound to get at least one in the right place.

But usually in that situation, I use some techniques that are really unconventional.

 

[obelisk477]

So after asking on Reddit and not really getting an answer there, I figured out this would be the best place to seek advice. So basically after reading myself up a bit on FMC (read the majority of that big FMC guide), I have one big problem. I can not find much on how you move on from say a 2x2x3 or F2L-1 to something like L3C. How do you effiecently permute the edges and such to get to that point? I always end up completing F2L and doing LL instead, which I am aware of is horribly ineffiecent. I really haven't found any resources on this. Here is an example of what I mean:

xxxxx // 2x2x2
xxxxx // 2x2x3
xxxxx // Some stuff that brings you to L3C

I'm basically wondering how you get good at/resources about how you do the "Some stuff that brings you to L3C" part.

From F2L-1

 

[Daniel Lin]

really interesting solution

Scramble: B' U2 F' D2 F' U2 B F L2 U2 F' L B2 U' B U F' D R' U' F'

U F B' D' // square
L2 B' // another square
(L2 R U2 L F' L' F' R) // to 3c4e

U F B' D' L2 B' R' F @ L F L' U2 ^ R' L2

@ = [E, L F L'] // edge 3-cycle cancels 7 moves
^ = F' U' F U L' U L U' // finish

Final solution: U F B' D' L2 B' R' F U D' B L B' U D F' U' F U L' U L U' R' L2
25 moves

nice solution
F' U' F U L' U L U' isn't even a last layer alg, how did you know there would be an easy F2l Case in the middle of the solve?

 

[Cale S]

nice solution
F' U' F U L' U L U' isn't even a last layer alg, how did you know there would be an easy F2l Case in the middle of the solve?

If you do the moves after the ^, then the scramble, and then the moves of the skeleton before it, you can see what you need to insert there to solve it (I think this is called reverse NISS). Here it's just 2 moves away from the end of the skeleton, and solving it is two 3 move pairs then everything is solved

 

[Daniel Lin]

If you do the moves after the ^, then the scramble, and then the moves of the skeleton before it, you can see what you need to insert there to solve it (I think this is called reverse NISS). Here it's just 2 moves away from the end of the skeleton, and solving it is two 3 move pairs then everything is solved

yeah i know about reverse NISS. but how did you know to do it right at that point-2 moves away from the end? did you try reverse niss at every point of the solve?

 

[Cale S]

yeah i know about reverse NISS. but how did you know to do it right at that point-2 moves away from the end? did you try reverse niss at every point of the solve?

I try using it a lot, usually I start from the end and work backwards and here it was 2 moves from the end

 

[Cale S]

pb single for /r/cubers weekly competition

Spoiler

R' U' F D R2 D2 B2 F2 D L2 R2 B2 U L U2 R2 D' B' R2 B' U2 R' U' F

B U2 // square
(U R2) // pseudo 2x2x2 + preserve pairs
R' L' B' // 2x2x3
L B' L2 B // F2L - 1
B R F D F' D R' D B' // ZBLS to L3C

B U2 R' L' B' L B' @ L2 B2 R F D F' D R' D B' R2 U'
@ = [B L' B', R2]

Final solution: B U2 R' L' B2 R2 B L B' R2 L2 B2 R F D F' D R' D B' R2 U'
22 moves

 

[BQ]

The following is the solution of single AsR broken by Ziheng Ma at Cube of Odd Numbers 2016.

Scramble:
R' U' F U R2 U' R2 U' B2 L2 U B2 U' F L2 U L' D L U2 B2 D2 L F' R' U' F
Solution:
L2 F2 R2 D R2 F2 L B2 L' D2 U' R2 U L2 U' R2 U L R' D' (20 moves)

Spoiler

NISS
pseudo 223: D R L2 //3
NISS
L3E3C: U' L' B2 L' D2 L //6-1

skeletion: ① U' L' B2 L' D2 ② L' R' D'
①: L2 F2 R2 D R2 F2 L2 U //8-3
②: U' R2 U L2 U' R2 U L2 //8-1

 

[Calode]

Trying to get into FMC. My first 3 solves were 42, 28 , and 33. This is my 4th attempt and decided to do it on a 2 move 2x2x2 scramble someone gave me. Btw, I know niss and insertions, just didn't find place for them here.

Scramble: F D' R2 U2 B' R D2 L B D' L2 D2 B2 D B2 R2 L2 U' L2

U' R' // 2x2x2
L D' L' D L F D2 F' // 2x2x3
D B' L' B L' // F2L-1
D' B D B' D B D B' D' L B' L' B // F2L
R' D' B' D B R // OLL + PLL skip

Final solution U' R' L D' L' D L F D2 F' D B' L' B L' D' B D B' D B D B' D' L B' L' B R' D' B' D B R
**35 moves**

How could I have done better? I feel like I wasted a 2 move 2x2 and a 10 move 2x2x3.

 

[Cale S]

Scramble: F D' R2 U2 B' R D2 L B D' L2 D2 B2 D B2 R2 L2 U' L2

U' R' // 2x2x2
(D2 L2 F) // pseudo 2x2x3 + pairs
(D) D' F // F2L - 1
D' B D B' L' // square in LL
B D' B' D B D' B' D // to L3C

U' R' D' F D' B D B' L' B D' B' D B D' B' F' @ L2 D2
@ = [B', L' F2 L]

Final solution: U' R' D' F D' B D B' L' B D' B' D B D' B2 F' L' F2 L B L' F2 L' D2
25 moves

8 move F2L-1 lol